RE: freebsd training/certification
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jayton Garnett Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 4:45 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd training/certification Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? The only one I know was discussed here: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-August/056525.html With a link here: http://cpe.njit.edu/opensourceunix/ But I must warn you it is non-credit, non-accredited. It's also quite a bit more costly than going down to the local community college. Nor do they guarentee to make you a guru Of course, the other vendor certifications, such as that from Microsoft, are also non-credit, non-accredited, and have no guarentee to make you a guru either. I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. There is really no point in doing that. The above course might be good to train you, but it's value as a pure sheepskin is nonexistent. You might as easily make up a certificate on a desktop publishing program if that is all you want it for. Certifications, ie: non-accredited coursework, are primariarly valuable in accordance to the 'brand' they carry. With all due respect to NJIT, nobody has heard of the FreeBSD Certificate they offer. By contrast, a MCSE, well everyone has heard of Microsoft and thus one of those certificates is much more valuable. If you want to spend your money on coursework, spend it on accredited courses that are transferable to any college or university. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD None. Two different markets. People buy Solaris because they need it to run commercial programs (typically UNIX binaries) that require it. People setup FreeBSD because they need a UNIX that runs UNIX source code programs. While it is possible to compile Open Source programs on Solaris (indeed, Sun has already done this for many of the popular ones) speaking as an admin that runs a shop that does this in production, there is little point in doing it. Both Solaris and FreeBSD run whatever open source software you want to run well enough for production. But Sun isn't going to support an Open Source program that you compile on their operating system, unless you have purchased the Sun compiler, the Sun development tools and have a Sun service contract, and very few shops do this as it is quite costly. We don't do it and to be honest the only reason we do run Solaris in production is that one of the admins here is more comfortable with it than with FreeBSD. Since the application that runs on it is his responsibility and I have no desire to micromanage, it runs Solaris. and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Because of the same reason that Microsoft booted Apple out of the personal computer market. It was a favorable congruence of factors. None of the people who are the recognized 'movers and shakers' in this deal, such as Bob Young, really had any idea at the time that they were doing the Right Things. Bob isn't any different than 99% of businessman walking around today except that he was extremely lucky. Very much the Bill Gates story. It is easy now to look back and realize that 1996 and 1997 were 'nexus' years for Open Source. Bob got involved in Linux years earlier not because Linux was better but simply because the first people to show him Open Source UNIX happened to be running Linux. If they had been running FreeBSD then today FreeBSD would be the darling of the trade rags. Or, if someone else had been doing the same thing in 1996 and 1997 with FreeBSD, then today FreeBSD and Linux would be equivalent in the trade rags. These years were critical for UNIX primariarly because of Windows 95 coming out with a usable TCP/IP stack. Prior to Windows 95, TCP/IP on a desktop OS was expensive, the IP stacks at that time cost more than DOS or Windows. Once Windows 95 came out with TCP/IP (and to a lesser extent, Windows for Workgroups 3.11) it in conjunction with SAMBA cracked the door to an alternative server OS. Here's a list of all the things that came together in 1996-1997 that brought Linux and to a lesser extent FreeBSD, into the realm of commercial alternatives for server operating systems: 1) The failure of Novell with Netware 4 2) A free TCP/IP stack with Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and Windows 95 3) 32bit desktop computing in Win95 which got rid of the argument between the networking stack and the applications in the desktop PC over system resources, and allowed very large and complex networking stacks (which TCP/IP is) on desktop PCs 4) The explosion of the Internet and huge demand for IP-aware applications 5) Microsoft didn't have a usable e-mail and web server solution for Windows NT 3.5.1 and 4.0 6
RE: freebsd training/certification
Because if you are a software publisher you make a lot more money selling software applications written for Red Hat than for FreeBSD. And since the software publishers and hardware vendors are the major advertisers in the computing press trade ragazines, and the hardware vendors don't care about the Windows vs FreeBSD vs Linux debate and make money from all of us, over this issue the software publishers are going to influence every column written, every survey taken, every interview published and every so-called news article on the subject. Of course the real truth is that nobody knows how many Linux systems compared to FreeBSD systems are in production. But from the industries point of view, the only counts that matter are those of SALES of operating systems. Red Hat doesen't get any more credit for downloads of the older versions of RedHat or of Fedora from the trade press than we get for downloads of FreeBSD. I might point out however that numbers aren't everything. There were far more Volkswagen Beetles sold than there have been Corvettes, but you might consider that the Corvette is still in production, as is the Mustang, while the Bug is little more than a piece of history. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tabor Kelly Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:04 PM To: Chris Cc: Jayton Garnett; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd training/certification Chris wrote: snip The user states, I have been using the OS for over a year now, Hmmm seems to me that the user should KNOW the answer to, and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Please, enlighten me, why is FreeBSD less popular than RH/Fedora, or linux in general for that matter? -- Tabor Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tabor.taborandtashell.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
freebsd training/certification
Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Thanks, Jayton Garnett ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: freebsd training/certification
Jayton Garnett wrote: Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Thanks, Jayton Garnett Search this list - you will find all your answers. This has been hashed over many, many times. Do a little work on your part - and you'll find out on your own. -- Best regards, Chris Real programmers don't announce how many times the operations department called them last night. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: freebsd training/certification
Jayton Garnett wrote: Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Thanks, Jayton Garnett ... come to think of it... This has to be a troll. Let's ponder this... The user states, I have been using the OS for over a year now, Hmmm seems to me that the user should KNOW the answer to, and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? In addition - using it for a year now, this would make one think that the user would have read the cert thread of not even a month ago. But let's really notice how the user unfolds the message. Starts off nice, curious to a point and even showing that the user wishes to possibly contribute to the foundation as a whole. Once the user softens the audience, delivers the one-two punch tactic of the evil creature known as a troll. However, this one don't look like Shrek ... Just my comical way of looking at things. -- Best regards, Chris A budget is spending $15.00 on gas to drive to a shopping mall to save $4.30 on a 20 pound turkey. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: freebsd training/certification
On 01/02/05 07:01 PM, Chris sat at the `puter and typed: Jayton Garnett wrote: Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Thanks, Jayton Garnett ... come to think of it... This has to be a troll. Let's ponder this... Not nececelery, but yes, lettuce ponder . . . The user states, I have been using the OS for over a year now, Hmmm seems to me that the user should KNOW the answer to, and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Obviously not a well thought out question, but I have to admit that I *don't* read *every* single thread on the list. In fact I probably read half - or less, of what comes to me through the list. I just don't have time. As far as why FreeBSD isn't as popular as RH/Fedora - wait, you really mean it isn't? :) In addition - using it for a year now, this would make one think that the user would have read the cert thread of not even a month ago. There are threads from yesterday I didn't read. I try to limit what I read to those that indicate (reasonably) from the subject that it is something I can answer, something related to a particular problem I'm working on, or something otherwise of interest. I've been using FreeBSD for almost 5 years, and my knowledge of it is still a drop in the bucket. But let's really notice how the user unfolds the message. Starts off nice, curious to a point and even showing that the user wishes to possibly contribute to the foundation as a whole. Ah, yes. I was naieve once too. Thought I was the answer to all FreeBSDs problems :) Chalk it up to Newbie Zeal. Yeah, even though he's been using it for a year. Using it doesn't mean learning the internals, architecture, etc. I can install the OS, ports, set up a mail services, web services, ftp, firewall (more or less) and still I'm a newbie. FreeBSD is definitely my OS of preference, but I've lost a little of that zeal. Once the user softens the audience, delivers the one-two punch tactic of the evil creature known as a troll. However, this one don't look like Shrek Not sure he's necessarily a troll, but I see your angle. ... Just my comical way of looking at things. Most entertaining :) -- Best regards, Chris Ditto Lou -- Louis LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :) http://www.keyslapper.org ԿԬ Pohl's law: Nothing is so good that somebody, somewhere, will not hate it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: freebsd training/certification
On 01/02/05 06:47 PM, Chris sat at the `puter and typed: Jayton Garnett wrote: Hello, I am wondering if there are any training/certification courses that I could take to become a FreeBSD guru? I have been using the OS for over a year now and have become very familiar with installation/configuration but would like to be able to add some sort of certification to my CV. Also how much of a threat is Solaris 10 x86 to FreeBSD and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Thanks, Jayton Garnett Search this list - you will find all your answers. This has been hashed over many, many times. Do a little work on your part - and you'll find out on your own. That last line: Do a little work on your part - and you'll find out on your own. That's the certification program :) You can learn more about FreeBSD in a month on the list and reading the books written on it than you'll ever learn (or care to retain) from some MS cert program. Best part is it only costs book fees and . . . what's the brains equivalent of elbow grease? Hard work, anyway. The thing to remember is that using FreeBSD isn't learning FreeBSD. Not in the sense of a cert program. I've been using FreeBSD for almost 5 years, but I'd be up the creek if I had to perform a major crash recovery. I just haven't gotten round to that yet. If you want a FreeBSD cert, find the goals list of any major Unix cert program, learn how to do that on FreeBSD (on at least two major releases, like 4.10 and 5.3) then do it a lot. That's your cert, but it's really a self signed cert. If you did all the work, it's every bit as good as the one you'd have paid $2850 for, but there's no fancy plaque to hang up (unless you make it yourself) and nobody has to honor it - not that they *have* to place much stock in the MS or Sun certs. Good luck. Lou -- Louis LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :) http://www.keyslapper.org ԿԬ Alexander Graham Bell is alive and well in New York, and still waiting for a dial tone. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: freebsd training/certification
Chris wrote: snip The user states, I have been using the OS for over a year now, Hmmm seems to me that the user should KNOW the answer to, and how come FreeBSD is not as popular as RH/Fedora? Please, enlighten me, why is FreeBSD less popular than RH/Fedora, or linux in general for that matter? -- Tabor Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tabor.taborandtashell.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
