Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-22 Thread krad
On 22 July 2010 02:16, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:

 
   Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
  zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
  filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
  like there is with ezjail would be nice.
 
 
  Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the same
  protection at a 10th of the overhead.


 You didn't factor in slowness due to having a file-backed filesystem.
  While
 probably pretty low, it's definitely there and not good in an io heavy
 jail.  Also, the host will have to mount a UFS based FS, and cache it so
 you're going to have increased memory usage.

 Ideal setup for an io intensive jaill(eg database) is to be bound to
 compressed ZFS file-system, not a sparse image located on such a setup.

 even better when we get zfs v22 as we will have dedup. THat has its own
memory issues though.



 I'm not sure what overhead you're referring too.  If it's hard to tie into
 your application, you are probably correct, but from a host perspective you
 are increasing overhead.

 There are advantages to sparse or raw file as well, it would be nice to
 have
 a choice.

 --
 Adam Vande More
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread krad
On 20 July 2010 21:36, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote:

 On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:45:37 +0800
 Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


  There has been the normal pre RELEASE freeze on since xmas, that is why
  no port activity is occurring right now.
 
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=148777

 Date:   Tue, 20 Jul 2010 02:47:18 GMT

 It was only just submitted. I would hardly expect it to be committed
 yet.

 By the way, there has been a great deal of port activity since
 Christmas.

 --
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Anyone tried using it yet? Not much info out there apart from the
announcments it seems. In my quick play with it this morning, it didnt seem
to be binding the ips to the jails. Not sure if you are supposed to have the
ip bound to the box before you use the jail. Would make sense if you did
have to, but it would be nice if the util added it for you or at least
prompted you if it wasnt there.
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Vincent Hoffman
On 21/07/2010 10:08, krad wrote:

 Anyone tried using it yet? Not much info out there apart from the
 announcments it seems. In my quick play with it this morning, it didnt seem
 to be binding the ips to the jails. Not sure if you are supposed to have the
 ip bound to the box before you use the jail. Would make sense if you did
 have to, but it would be nice if the util added it for you or at least
 prompted you if it wasnt there.
   
Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
like there is with ezjail would be nice.

Vince

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread krad
On 21 July 2010 10:15, Vincent Hoffman vi...@unsane.co.uk wrote:

 On 21/07/2010 10:08, krad wrote:
 
  Anyone tried using it yet? Not much info out there apart from the
  announcments it seems. In my quick play with it this morning, it didnt
 seem
  to be binding the ips to the jails. Not sure if you are supposed to have
 the
  ip bound to the box before you use the jail. Would make sense if you did
  have to, but it would be nice if the util added it for you or at least
  prompted you if it wasnt there.
 
 Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
 zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
 filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
 like there is with ezjail would be nice.

 Vince

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i have only done preliminary tinkering and it looks ok so far (i did have to
pre bind the jail ip). Might have to find a box to put freebsd 9 on and see
how it works with the network stack virtualization.
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Fbsd8

krad wrote:


Anyone tried using it yet? Not much info out there apart from the
announcments it seems. In my quick play with it this morning, it didnt seem
to be binding the ips to the jails. Not sure if you are supposed to have the
ip bound to the box before you use the jail. Would make sense if you did
have to, but it would be nice if the util added it for you or at least
prompted you if it wasnt there.


Maybe you should try the -n option on the create command or the -c 
option on the config option.

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Aiza


i have only done preliminary tinkering and it looks ok so far (i did have to
pre bind the jail ip). Might have to find a box to put freebsd 9 on and see
how it works with the network stack virtualization.


Please explain what you mean by pre-bind the jail ip address. I think 
you skipped over the create command -n option.

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Aiza



Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
like there is with ezjail would be nice.



Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the 
same protection at a 10th of the overhead.

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread krad
On 21 July 2010 10:46, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:


 i have only done preliminary tinkering and it looks ok so far (i did have
 to
 pre bind the jail ip). Might have to find a box to put freebsd 9 on and
 see
 how it works with the network stack virtualization.


 Please explain what you mean by pre-bind the jail ip address. I think you
 skipped over the create command -n option.


Thanks, doing the following works nicely

qjail create -I -i -s 10m -n age0 test 192.168.210.86

Might be worth updating the create examples as the -n option isnt mentioned
there, and as a result I can see this same issue cropping up a lot in the
future.
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Valentin Bud
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:


  Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
 zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
 filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
 like there is with ezjail would be nice.


 Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the same
 protection at a 10th of the overhead.


Hello community,

 ZFS shouldn't be left out. Besides limiting the disk usage dynamically per
zfs FS
you have another big advantage - snapshots. Suppose you want to upgrade
ports
is a jail and something goes kaboom you just revert to the previous working
snapshot.
 I agree you can copy the image back and forth but zfs snapshots are faster
and not
that space consuming.

 The layout that I plan to use is the following:

storage/jails
  |storage/jails/group1
  | |
  |
|storage/jails/group1/jail1
  |
|storage/jails/group1/jail2
  |
  |storage/jails/group2
  | | ...
  |

Group can be any kind of characteristic you want to take into account
regarding
those jails (eg. group1 - mail servers, group2 - web servers, groupX -
companyY, etc.).
You can also go with more levels of depth but for me it's enough.

This way if your server doesn't handle all the jails you have running,
simply
buy new hardware, install FBSD (or just copy the ZFS root container over to
the new
system) and migrate the jails over.

I am waiting for network stack virtualization to come out and dreaming about
live jails
migration in the future of FBSD :).

I would like you to reconsider ZFS support and thanks for qjail :).

a great day,
v
-- 
network warrior
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Aiza

Valentin Bud wrote:

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:


 Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using

zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
like there is with ezjail would be nice.



Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the same
protection at a 10th of the overhead.



Hello community,

 ZFS shouldn't be left out. Besides limiting the disk usage dynamically per
zfs FS
you have another big advantage - snapshots. Suppose you want to upgrade
ports
is a jail and something goes kaboom you just revert to the previous working
snapshot.
 I agree you can copy the image back and forth but zfs snapshots are faster
and not
that space consuming.

 The layout that I plan to use is the following:

storage/jails
  |storage/jails/group1
  | |
  |
|storage/jails/group1/jail1
  |
|storage/jails/group1/jail2
  |
  |storage/jails/group2
  | | ...
  |

Group can be any kind of characteristic you want to take into account
regarding
those jails (eg. group1 - mail servers, group2 - web servers, groupX -
companyY, etc.).
You can also go with more levels of depth but for me it's enough.

This way if your server doesn't handle all the jails you have running,
simply
buy new hardware, install FBSD (or just copy the ZFS root container over to
the new
system) and migrate the jails over.

I am waiting for network stack virtualization to come out and dreaming about
live jails
migration in the future of FBSD :).

I would like you to reconsider ZFS support and thanks for qjail :).

a great day,
v


What you are doing behind the jail system back using zfs, qjail does 
with the -z zone option right up front. And the archive and restore of 
qjail jails is less than 3 seconds right now. How much faster does it 
need to be?



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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread krad
On 21 July 2010 12:37, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:

 Valentin Bud wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:

   Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using

 zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
 filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
 like there is with ezjail would be nice.


  Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the
 same
 protection at a 10th of the overhead.


  Hello community,

  ZFS shouldn't be left out. Besides limiting the disk usage dynamically
 per
 zfs FS
 you have another big advantage - snapshots. Suppose you want to upgrade
 ports
 is a jail and something goes kaboom you just revert to the previous
 working
 snapshot.
  I agree you can copy the image back and forth but zfs snapshots are
 faster
 and not
 that space consuming.


That all depends on your deltas. We do hot backups (lock, flush, snap,
unlock) of our oracle dbs on solaris with zfs snap shots. The do take up a
lot of room but thats becasue we do a lot of writes gigs a day.




  The layout that I plan to use is the following:

 storage/jails
  |storage/jails/group1
  | |
  |
 |storage/jails/group1/jail1
  |
 |storage/jails/group1/jail2
  |
  |storage/jails/group2
  | | ...
  |

 Group can be any kind of characteristic you want to take into account
 regarding
 those jails (eg. group1 - mail servers, group2 - web servers, groupX -
 companyY, etc.).
 You can also go with more levels of depth but for me it's enough.

 This way if your server doesn't handle all the jails you have running,
 simply
 buy new hardware, install FBSD (or just copy the ZFS root container over
 to
 the new
 system) and migrate the jails over.

 I am waiting for network stack virtualization to come out and dreaming
 about
 live jails
 migration in the future of FBSD :).

 I would like you to reconsider ZFS support and thanks for qjail :).

 a great day,
 v


 What you are doing behind the jail system back using zfs, qjail does with
 the -z zone option right up front. And the archive and restore of qjail
 jails is less than 3 seconds right now. How much faster does it need to be?



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that depends on how much data is in the jail surely.
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-21 Thread Adam Vande More
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Aiza aiz...@comclark.com wrote:


  Not yet, when I have a spare box I might, although I quite like using
 zfs for jails as you can limit the disk usage dynamically per zfs
 filesystem and I didnt see any support there yet, even basic support
 like there is with ezjail would be nice.


 Zfs was left out because its over kill. Sparse image jails gives the same
 protection at a 10th of the overhead.


You didn't factor in slowness due to having a file-backed filesystem.  While
probably pretty low, it's definitely there and not good in an io heavy
jail.  Also, the host will have to mount a UFS based FS, and cache it so
you're going to have increased memory usage.

Ideal setup for an io intensive jaill(eg database) is to be bound to
compressed ZFS file-system, not a sparse image located on such a setup.

I'm not sure what overhead you're referring too.  If it's hard to tie into
your application, you are probably correct, but from a host perspective you
are increasing overhead.

There are advantages to sparse or raw file as well, it would be nice to have
a choice.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Jerry
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:29:56 +0800
Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


 This is a news announcement to inform people who have interest in jails,
 that a new jail utility is available.
 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/
 
 Has a file suitable for the pkg_add command or the port make files can 
 be downloaded and a make install run.
 
 
 Qjail [ q = quick ] is a 4th generation wrapper for the basic chroot 
 jail system that includes security and performance enhancements. Plus a 
 new level of user friendliness enhancements dealing with deploying 
 just a few jails or large jail environments consisting of 100's of 
 jails. Qjail requires no knowledge of the jail command usage.
 
 It uses nullfs for read-only system binaries, sharing one copy of
 them with all the jails.
 
 Uses mdconfig to create sparse image jails. Sparse image jails
 provide a method to limit the total disk space a jail can consume,
 while only occupying disk space of the sum size of the files in
 the image jail.
 
 Ability to assign ip address with their network device name,
 so aliases are auto created on jail start and auto removed on jail stop.
 
 Ability to create ZONEs of identical qjail systems, each with
 their own group of jails.
 
 Ability to designate a portion of the jail name as a group prefix so
 the command being executed will apply to only those jail names
 matching that prefix.
 
 Qjail reduces the complexities of small and large jail deployments to 
 the novice level. Qjail has a fully documented manpage written for easy 
 comprehension. Details are given to felicitate the use of qjail's
 capabilities to the fullest extent possible.

There presently does not exist a port for this, or at least I could not
find one. Is someone going to create a port?


-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Aiza

Jerry wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:29:56 +0800
Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:



This is a news announcement to inform people who have interest in jails,
that a new jail utility is available.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/

Has a file suitable for the pkg_add command or the port make files can 
be downloaded and a make install run.



Qjail [ q = quick ] is a 4th generation wrapper for the basic chroot 
jail system that includes security and performance enhancements. Plus a 
new level of user friendliness enhancements dealing with deploying 
just a few jails or large jail environments consisting of 100's of 
jails. Qjail requires no knowledge of the jail command usage.


It uses nullfs for read-only system binaries, sharing one copy of
them with all the jails.

Uses mdconfig to create sparse image jails. Sparse image jails
provide a method to limit the total disk space a jail can consume,
while only occupying disk space of the sum size of the files in
the image jail.

Ability to assign ip address with their network device name,
so aliases are auto created on jail start and auto removed on jail stop.

Ability to create ZONEs of identical qjail systems, each with
their own group of jails.

Ability to designate a portion of the jail name as a group prefix so
the command being executed will apply to only those jail names
matching that prefix.

Qjail reduces the complexities of small and large jail deployments to 
the novice level. Qjail has a fully documented manpage written for easy 
comprehension. Details are given to felicitate the use of qjail's

capabilities to the fullest extent possible.


There presently does not exist a port for this, or at least I could not
find one. Is someone going to create a port?


Like the announcement said the port is available at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/


And if you have ever submitted a new port for inclusion into the freebsd 
ports system you would know that it takes months for it to show up in 
the collection.


So you can wait till xmas or RELEASE 9.0 to come out for the port to be 
in the ports collection or just fetch it form the development project site.

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Jerry
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:25:32 +0800
Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


 Like the announcement said the port is available at 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/
 
 And if you have ever submitted a new port for inclusion into the freebsd 
 ports system you would know that it takes months for it to show up in 
 the collection.

Actually, I have submitted a few ports. I believe it averaged only
approximately 10 to 14 days before they were officially committed to
the ports tree. Updating them usually takes 10 days or less.

 So you can wait till xmas or RELEASE 9.0 to come out for the port to be 
 in the ports collection or just fetch it form the development project site.

I guess I was just lucky I did not have to wait 6 months. I am
assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you might be the maintainer of this
new port. What is the PR #?

-- 
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freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Aiza

Jerry wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:25:32 +0800
Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


Like the announcement said the port is available at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/


And if you have ever submitted a new port for inclusion into the freebsd 
ports system you would know that it takes months for it to show up in 
the collection.


Actually, I have submitted a few ports. I believe it averaged only
approximately 10 to 14 days before they were officially committed to
the ports tree. Updating them usually takes 10 days or less.

So you can wait till xmas or RELEASE 9.0 to come out for the port to be 
in the ports collection or just fetch it form the development project site.


I guess I was just lucky I did not have to wait 6 months. I am
assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you might be the maintainer of this
new port. What is the PR #?

There has been the normal pre RELEASE freeze on since xmas, that is why 
no port activity is occurring right now.


 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=148777


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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Jerry
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:45:37 +0800
Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


 There has been the normal pre RELEASE freeze on since xmas, that is why 
 no port activity is occurring right now.
 
   http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=148777

Date:   Tue, 20 Jul 2010 02:47:18 GMT

It was only just submitted. I would hardly expect it to be committed
yet.

By the way, there has been a great deal of port activity since
Christmas.

-- 
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Re: new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-20 Thread Greg Larkin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Aiza wrote:
 Jerry wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:25:32 +0800
 Aiza aiz...@comclark.com articulated:


 Like the announcement said the port is available at
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/

 And if you have ever submitted a new port for inclusion into the
 freebsd ports system you would know that it takes months for it to
 show up in the collection.

 Actually, I have submitted a few ports. I believe it averaged only
 approximately 10 to 14 days before they were officially committed to
 the ports tree. Updating them usually takes 10 days or less.

 So you can wait till xmas or RELEASE 9.0 to come out for the port to
 be in the ports collection or just fetch it form the development
 project site.

 I guess I was just lucky I did not have to wait 6 months. I am
 assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you might be the maintainer of this
 new port. What is the PR #?

 There has been the normal pre RELEASE freeze on since xmas, that is why
 no port activity is occurring right now.
 
  http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=148777

Hi Aiza,

Where did you get that information?  Whoever told you that is mistaken.
 A large number of commits have entered the ports tree since the
beginning of the year.  Have a look at the ports CVS mailing list
archive since December 2009: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/cvs-ports/

The ports tree does go into a freeze or slush state around release
times, but that doesn't completely stop commits either, mostly sweeping
changes that affect a great number of ports or introduce some other
incompatibility.  Here's some more information:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/committers-guide/ports.html#AEN1466

Hope that helps, and thank you for your new port,
Greg
- --
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http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code.
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new jail utility is available. announcement.

2010-07-19 Thread Aiza

This is a news announcement to inform people who have interest in jails,
that a new jail utility is available.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/qjail/

Has a file suitable for the pkg_add command or the port make files can 
be downloaded and a make install run.



Qjail [ q = quick ] is a 4th generation wrapper for the basic chroot 
jail system that includes security and performance enhancements. Plus a 
new level of user friendliness enhancements dealing with deploying 
just a few jails or large jail environments consisting of 100's of 
jails. Qjail requires no knowledge of the jail command usage.


It uses nullfs for read-only system binaries, sharing one copy of
them with all the jails.

Uses mdconfig to create sparse image jails. Sparse image jails
provide a method to limit the total disk space a jail can consume,
while only occupying disk space of the sum size of the files in
the image jail.

Ability to assign ip address with their network device name,
so aliases are auto created on jail start and auto removed on jail stop.

Ability to create ZONEs of identical qjail systems, each with
their own group of jails.

Ability to designate a portion of the jail name as a group prefix so
the command being executed will apply to only those jail names
matching that prefix.

Qjail reduces the complexities of small and large jail deployments to 
the novice level. Qjail has a fully documented manpage written for easy 
comprehension. Details are given to felicitate the use of qjail's

capabilities to the fullest extent possible.
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