7.2RC2 panic in drm_open_helper on amd64

2009-04-26 Thread Navdeep Parhar
[ Normally I'd have replied to the original email but I couldn't
figure out a way to subscribe to a list, and then reply to an email
already posted to the list.]

I have this very problem (with a different card):
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2009-April/049618.html

It looks like drm_open_helper() gets a NULL dev parameter and a panic
occurs when it attempts to set dev->flags = flags.  r189668, which was
the MFC of r189052, seems to be the point where the problem showed up
in the 7-STABLE branch.

Regards,
Navdeep

=
vgap...@pci0:3:1:0: class=0x03 card=0x02021787 chip=0x51591002
rev=0x00 hdr=0x00
vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc'
device = 'RV100 Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE'
class  = display
subclass   = VGA

=
Unread portion of the kernel message buffer:
drm2:  on vgapci2
device_attach: drm2 attach returned 2


Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
cpuid = 0; apic id = 00
fault virtual address   = 0x3c
fault code  = supervisor write data, page not present
instruction pointer = 0x8:0x80e28bfe
stack pointer   = 0x10:0xfffebe6f36a0
frame pointer   = 0x10:0xfffebe6f36f0
code segment= base 0x0, limit 0xf, type 0x1b
= DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1
processor eflags= interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 3
current process = 1103 (Xorg)
trap number = 12
panic: page fault
cpuid = 0
Uptime: 30m9s
Physical memory: 2033 MB
Dumping 120 MB: 105 89 73 57 41 25 9

Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/drm.ko...Reading symbols from
/boot/kernel/drm.ko.symbols...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/drm.ko
Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/radeon.ko...Reading symbols from
/boot/kernel/radeon.ko.symbols...done.
done.
Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/radeon.ko
#0  doadump () at pcpu.h:195
195 pcpu.h: No such file or directory.
in pcpu.h
(kgdb) where
#0  doadump () at pcpu.h:195
#1  0x0004 in ?? ()
#2  0x8049a8b1 in boot (howto=260) at
/usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:418
#3  0x8049acec in panic (fmt=0x104 ) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:574
#4  0x8075e70a in trap_fatal (frame=0xff0001c476e0,
eva=Variable "eva" is not available.
) at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:764
#5  0x8075eab1 in trap_pfault (frame=0xfffebe6f35f0,
usermode=0) at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:680
#6  0x8075f36f in trap (frame=0xfffebe6f35f0) at
/usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:449
#7  0x807447ae in calltrap () at
/usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/exception.S:209
#8  0x80e28bfe in drm_open_helper (kdev=0xff0001bbb200,
flags=3, fmt=Variable "fmt" is not available.
)
at /usr/src/sys/modules/drm/drm/../../../dev/drm/drm_fops.c:50
#9  0x80e27510 in drm_open (kdev=0xff0001bbb200, flags=3,
fmt=8192, p=0xff0001c476e0)
at /usr/src/sys/modules/drm/drm/../../../dev/drm/drm_drv.c:597
#10 0x80464275 in giant_open (dev=0xff0001bbb200,
oflags=3, devtype=8192, td=0xff0001c476e0)
at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_conf.c:342
#11 0x804341c7 in devfs_open (ap=0xfffebe6f38e0) at
/usr/src/sys/fs/devfs/devfs_vnops.c:916
#12 0x8051f0ec in vn_open_cred (ndp=0xfffebe6f3a20,
flagp=0xfffebe6f396c, cmode=Variable "cmode" is not available.
) at vnode_if.h:199
#13 0x8051ce23 in kern_open (td=0xff0001c476e0,
path=0x7fffe850 ,
pathseg=Variable "pathseg" is not available.
) at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:1042
#14 0x8075ed1c in syscall (frame=0xfffebe6f3c80) at
/usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:907
#15 0x807449bb in Xfast_syscall () at
/usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/exception.S:330
#16 0x0008019c8ffc in ?? ()
Previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)
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Re: dri + ATI: dramatic performance slowdown

2009-04-26 Thread Oliver Lehmann
Hi Robert,

Robert Noland wrote:

> It still might be useful... Option "BusType" "PCI"


With "radeon" driver:

When xorg is started, my 2nd monitor keeps being black. The 1st one is
working. It looks like the hardware acceleration is not being used as
moving windows on the remaining monitor is really slow again. xrandr
lists the 2nd monitor. Switching to console and back does work - but the
2nd monitor remains black (no signal).
On Xorg Startup I get:

info: [drm] Setting GART location based on new memory map
error: [drm:pid728:r600_do_init_cp] *ERROR* Need gart offset from
userspace

in Xorg.log:
(II) RADEON(0): AGP card detected
(**) RADEON(0): Forced into PCI mode

pro: switching works
contra: no hardwareaccel., no dualhead


With "radeonhd" driver:

BusType seems to have no impact. The same behaviour like without.
Switching to console and back makes Xorg hang.

in Xorg.log
(II) RADEONHD(0): AGP Card Detected

Nothing about PCI mode.

pro: dualhead, hardwareaccel,
contra: no switching

Without the "busstype" Option, the radeon driver seems to be a bit more
performant for me because switching between my virtual desktops makes the
system hang for about 1-2 sec. with the radeonhd driver sometimes...

I've uploaded both Xorg.log files here:

http://files.pofo.de/Xorg.0.log.radeon
http://files.pofo.de/Xorg.0.log.radeonhd

-- 
 Oliver Lehmann
  http://www.pofo.de/
  http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
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Re: How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?

2009-04-26 Thread Glen Barber
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:40 PM, wac  wrote:
>
> Thanks Glen but doing that in a remote computer is askin for trouble and I 
> can't step to the risk of having that computer trashed (fixing it would cost 
> almost as much as renting a new one). Anyway in the forums somebody gave me 
> this:

Doing what in a remote machine is asking for trouble?  SSH will not be affected.

>
> ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/i386/7.0-RELEASE/packages/All
>
> The problem now is that the package I need is way too old. Let's see if i can 
> work out to fix that. Problem is it uses perl and perl is used by another 
> package the hosting company installed that depends on it. And that I really 
> have 0 experience with it so reinstalling a new one means downtime. I'll try 
> to modify dkimproxy and see what happens. So far the newer version installed 
> with warnings but doesn't even start.
>

If you need "stability" (production ready), you (as the maintainer of
the machine) are obligated to some extent to keep it both, up to date
and "stable".

Note:  I use "stable" in quotes to not be confused with -STABLE.

AFAIK, 7.0-REL was EOL'd (or is scheduled to be).  Ports are generally
guaranteed to be installable on the latest -RELEASE version (in this
case, 7.1-RELEASE).  Anything prior to that is not a guarantee.
Packages (as I am sure you are aware) are only built one time -- when
X.X-RELEASE is released.  There is no guarantee on compatibility after
that point.

-- 
Glen Barber
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Re: 7.2-PRE amd64 panic when starting Xorg

2009-04-26 Thread Jeff Blank
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 01:08:13AM -0400, Jeff Blank wrote:
> I've installed 7.2-PRERELEASE, csup on 20090423 at around 19:00 UTC.
> When I rebooted after installing world, X started (xdm in /etc/ttys)
> and immediately panicked the system, even before switching to the new
> VTY.

One more note: using 'date=' in a supfile, I think I've narrowed this
down to the changes in sys/dev/drm on March 11, which include
radeon_cp.c and radeon_irq.c.

Jeff
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Re: How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?

2009-04-26 Thread wac

Thanks Glen but doing that in a remote computer is askin for trouble and I 
can't step to the risk of having that computer trashed (fixing it would cost 
almost as much as renting a new one). Anyway in the forums somebody gave me 
this:

ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/i386/7.0-RELEASE/packages/All

The problem now is that the package I need is way too old. Let's see if i can 
work out to fix that. Problem is it uses perl and perl is used by another 
package the hosting company installed that depends on it. And that I really 
have 0 experience with it so reinstalling a new one means downtime. I'll try to 
modify dkimproxy and see what happens. So far the newer version installed with 
warnings but doesn't even start.

Regards
Waldo


--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Glen Barber  wrote:

> From: Glen Barber 
> Subject: Re: How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?
> To: waldoalvare...@yahoo.com
> Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
> Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 5:58 AM
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:42 AM, wac
>  wrote:
> >
> > vantline# pkg_add -r dkimproxy-1.1
> > Error: FTP Unable to get
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-7
> > .0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz: File unavailable
> (e.g., file not found, no
> > access)
> > pkg_add: unable to fetch
> 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-
> > 7.0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz' by URL
> > vantline#
> >
> > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/
> >
> > packages 10/23/2006 12:00:00 AM
> > packages-5-stable 4/4/2008 12:00:00 AM
> > packages-6-stable 4/18/2009 6:16:00 PM
> > packages-6.4-release 11/21/2008 1:33:00 PM
> > packages-7-stable 4/18/2009 10:06:00 PM
> > packages-7.1-release 12/22/2008 11:30:00 PM
> > packages-7.2-release 4/21/2009 5:18:00 PM
> > packages-8-current 4/16/2009 2:38:00 PM
> > packages-current 2/9/2008 12:00:00 AM
> > packages-stable 3/1/2008 12:00:00 AM
> >
> > packages-7.0-release is completely missing.
> >
> > Is there a way to fix this? How? What should I put in
> PACKAGESITE?
> >
> 
> You could build from ports.
> 
> Regarding PACKAGESITE, see the handbook.
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/packages-using.html
> 
> > Upgrading is unfortunately not an option for me.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Glen Barber
> ___
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Re: How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?

2009-04-26 Thread Ken Smith
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 01:42 -0700, wac wrote:
> vantline# pkg_add -r dkimproxy-1.1
> Error: FTP Unable to get 
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-7
> .0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, 
> no
> access)
> pkg_add: unable to fetch 
> 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-
> 7.0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz' by URL
> vantline#
> 
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/
> 
> packages 10/23/2006 12:00:00 AM
> packages-5-stable 4/4/2008 12:00:00 AM
> packages-6-stable 4/18/2009 6:16:00 PM
> packages-6.4-release 11/21/2008 1:33:00 PM
> packages-7-stable 4/18/2009 10:06:00 PM
> packages-7.1-release 12/22/2008 11:30:00 PM
> packages-7.2-release 4/21/2009 5:18:00 PM
> packages-8-current 4/16/2009 2:38:00 PM
> packages-current 2/9/2008 12:00:00 AM
> packages-stable 3/1/2008 12:00:00 AM
> 
> packages-7.0-release is completely missing.
> 
> Is there a way to fix this? How? What should I put in PACKAGESITE?
> 
> Upgrading is unfortunately not an option for me.
> 

The old releases are available here, in roughly the normal layout:

  ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/

The ports are in the ports/ sub-directory while the release bits
themselves are in the old-releases/ sub-directory.


-- 
Ken Smith
- From there to here, from here to  |   kensm...@cse.buffalo.edu
  there, funny things are everywhere.   |
  - Theodore Geisel |


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Re: dri + ATI: dramatic performance slowdown

2009-04-26 Thread Robert Noland
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 10:21 +0200, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
> Robert Noland wrote:
> 
> > It also just occurred to me... I'm running radeonhd right now... I will
> > switch off to radeon in a bit and see if things change.
> 
> Ok So I don't need to force it to PCI mode now? ;) If I should
> nevertheless - how do I do this?

It still might be useful... Option "BusType" "PCI"

robert.

-- 
Robert Noland 
FreeBSD


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em0 watchdog timeout (and 3ware problems) 7-stable

2009-04-26 Thread Greg Byshenk
I have one machine that is seeing watchdog timeouts on em0, running 7-STABLE
amd64 as of 2009.04.19, and also some other more perverse errors.

Twice now in the last 48 hours, this machine has become unreachable via the
network, and connecting to the console shows an endless string of 

   [...]
   em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting
   em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting
   em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting

messages. The machine is almost locked up.  That is, I can get a login
prompt, but can go no further than typing in a username; after the
username, no password prompt, and nothing further.  The only option is
to hard reset the machine or to drop to debugger and reboot.

Now the "perverse" part.  After restarting, the system partition is no
more.

Background detail:  the machine is a fileserver, with a 3Ware 9650SE-16ML
SATA controller, connected to 16 1TB SATA drives, this configured as
a 14-drive RAID10 array (+ 2 hot spares), with a 50GB system partition
and 6.5TB data partition.  The system partition is configured as da1,
with one slice and more or less standard partitions for / /var /tmp, etc.
(the data partition of the array is sliced with gpt).

The issue here is that, upon restart, all parition information on da0
seems to have disappeared, and restarting results in a "no operating
system found" message, and a failure to boot (obviously).

But all of the data is still present.  If I boot into rescue mode,
recreate da0s1, mark it bootable, and restore the bsdlabel, then
everything works again.  I can restart the machine, and it comes back
up normally (it requires an fsck of everything on da0, but after that
everything is back to normal).

I don't know if this is two unrelated problems, or one problem with
two symptoms, or something else.  I think that I can safely say that
it is not a problem with the 3Ware controller itself, as I replaced
the controller with a spare (identical model), and the problem
recurred.  Additionally, I have an almost-identical configuration on
four other machines, none of which are experiencing any problems.
One thing that is different is that the other machines use
Intel PRO/1000 PF (pci-e) NICs.

Is there some known problem with the Intel 2572 fibre NIC?  Or some
potential interaction of it with the 3ware RAID controller?

For the moment, I've set hw.pci.enable_msi=0 (as discussed in the
threads on 7.2/bge), and am building a new kernel/world from sources
csup'd one hour ago, but I'd really like to hear any ideas about this
-- particularly the wiping of the label.

Some information about the system:


# /dev/da0s1:
8 partitions:
#size   offsetfstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
  a:  209715204.2BSD0 0 0 
  b:  8388608  2097152  swap
  c: 1048561920unused0 0 # "raw" part, don't 
edit
  d:  8388608 104857604.2BSD0 0 0 
  e:  2097152 188743684.2BSD0 0 0 
  f: 41943040 209715204.2BSD0 0 0 
  g: 41941632 629145604.2BSD0 0 0 


e...@pci0:4:1:0: class=0x02 card=0x10038086 chip=0x10018086 rev=0x02 
hdr=0x00
vendor = 'Intel Corporation'thernet Controller (Fiber)'
device = '2572 10/100/1000 Ethernet Controller (Fiber)'
class  = networktory, range 32, base 0xda00, size 131072, enabled
subclass   = ethernetory, range 32, base 0xda00, size 131072, enabled
bar   [10] = type Memory, range 32, base 0xda00, size 131072, enabled
bar   [14] = type Memory, range 32, base 0xda02, size 65536, enabled0x00
 
t...@pci0:9:0:0:class=0x010400 card=0x100413c1 chip=0x100413c1 rev=0x01 
hdr=0x00
device = '9650SE Series PCI-Express SATA2 Raid Controller'
class  = mass storage
subclass   = RAID
bar   [10] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xd800, size 
33554432, enabled
bar   [18] = type Memory, range 64, base 0xda30, size 4096, enabled
bar   [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x3000, size 256, enabled
cap 01[40] = powerspec 2  supports D0 D1 D2 D3  current D0
cap 05[50] = MSI supports 32 messages, 64 bit
cap 10[70] = PCI-Express 1 legacy endpoint

-- 
greg byshenk  -  gbysh...@byshenk.net  -  Leiden, NL
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Re: dri + ATI: dramatic performance slowdown

2009-04-26 Thread Oliver Lehmann
By the way:

- it also happens with the "radeon" driver (tried it once).
- It does not happen when I just exit Xorg normally, and then restart it.
- It only happens on switching while Xorg is running to console and then
  back to Xorg.
- While then back in Xorg, Xorg remains unkillable, sometimes I can see my
  mouesecursor (which I can move around) but the screen is not correctly
  re-initialized (I can see artifacts and sometimes the console output
  somewhere in the middle of the screen).

-- 
 Oliver Lehmann
  http://www.pofo.de/
  http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
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Re: How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?

2009-04-26 Thread Glen Barber
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:42 AM, wac  wrote:
>
> vantline# pkg_add -r dkimproxy-1.1
> Error: FTP Unable to get 
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-7
> .0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, 
> no
> access)
> pkg_add: unable to fetch 
> 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-
> 7.0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz' by URL
> vantline#
>
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/
>
> packages 10/23/2006 12:00:00 AM
> packages-5-stable 4/4/2008 12:00:00 AM
> packages-6-stable 4/18/2009 6:16:00 PM
> packages-6.4-release 11/21/2008 1:33:00 PM
> packages-7-stable 4/18/2009 10:06:00 PM
> packages-7.1-release 12/22/2008 11:30:00 PM
> packages-7.2-release 4/21/2009 5:18:00 PM
> packages-8-current 4/16/2009 2:38:00 PM
> packages-current 2/9/2008 12:00:00 AM
> packages-stable 3/1/2008 12:00:00 AM
>
> packages-7.0-release is completely missing.
>
> Is there a way to fix this? How? What should I put in PACKAGESITE?
>

You could build from ports.

Regarding PACKAGESITE, see the handbook.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/packages-using.html

> Upgrading is unfortunately not an option for me.
>



-- 
Glen Barber
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How do i fix the broken FTP structure of freebsd 7.0?

2009-04-26 Thread wac

vantline# pkg_add -r dkimproxy-1.1
Error: FTP Unable to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-7
.0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no
access)
pkg_add: unable to fetch 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-
7.0-release/Latest/dkimproxy-1.1.tbz' by URL
vantline#

ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/

packages 10/23/2006 12:00:00 AM
packages-5-stable 4/4/2008 12:00:00 AM
packages-6-stable 4/18/2009 6:16:00 PM
packages-6.4-release 11/21/2008 1:33:00 PM
packages-7-stable 4/18/2009 10:06:00 PM
packages-7.1-release 12/22/2008 11:30:00 PM
packages-7.2-release 4/21/2009 5:18:00 PM
packages-8-current 4/16/2009 2:38:00 PM
packages-current 2/9/2008 12:00:00 AM
packages-stable 3/1/2008 12:00:00 AM

packages-7.0-release is completely missing.

Is there a way to fix this? How? What should I put in PACKAGESITE?

Upgrading is unfortunately not an option for me.


  
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FreeBSD-7.1 wi-driver error messages

2009-04-26 Thread Huub Schuurmans
I have FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE-p4 running on a Soekris 4521 with three
wireless cards that use the wi-driver:

- one mini-pci wireless card:
 on pci0 
using RF:PRISM2.5
MAC:ISL3874A(Mini-PCI)  
  
Intersil Firmware: Primary (1.1.1), Station (1.8.2)

- and two pcmcia wireless cards: 
  on pccard0 and pccard1
using RF:PRISM2.5 MAC:ISL3873
Intersil Firmware: Primary (1.1.1), Station (1.8.2)

Every now and then I get error messages for the mini-pci card and for
one (!) of the pcmcia-cards, like:

wi1: record read mismatch, rid=fd44, got=200
wi0: record read mismatch, rid=fd44, got=8650

no errors for the other pcmcia-card.

The two cards-with-errors are running in managed mode:
flags=8843 metric 0 mtu 1500
media: IEEE 802.11 Wireless Ethernet DS/11Mbps
authmode OPEN privacy OFF bmiss 7 scanvalid 60 

The pcmcia-card that does NOT generate errors is running in master mode:
flags=8843 metric 0 mtu 1500
media: IEEE 802.11 Wireless Ethernet DS/11Mbps  (DS/2Mbps
)
authmode OPEN privacy OFF scanvalid 60 dtimperiod 1

I noticed that this same error was reported during development of 7.0:
http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/freebsd-current/2008/2/5/722934

The error did not occur with 6.x.

Any comment or suggestion is appreciated,
Huub

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Re: dri + ATI: dramatic performance slowdown

2009-04-26 Thread Oliver Lehmann
Robert Noland wrote:

> It also just occurred to me... I'm running radeonhd right now... I will
> switch off to radeon in a bit and see if things change.

Ok So I don't need to force it to PCI mode now? ;) If I should
nevertheless - how do I do this?

-- 
 Oliver Lehmann
  http://www.pofo.de/
  http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
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Re: 7.2-PRE amd64 panic when starting Xorg

2009-04-26 Thread Jeff Blank
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 01:08:13AM -0400, Jeff Blank wrote:
> I've installed 7.2-PRERELEASE, csup on 20090423 at around 19:00 UTC.
> When I rebooted after installing world, X started (xdm in /etc/ttys)
> and immediately panicked the system, even before switching to the new
> VTY.

I probably should have specified that my video chipset is a Radeon
X800 (R430), PCIE, instead of letting you all go hunting for it in the
attachments of my previous post.  And a little more playing reveals
that the panic goes away when I disable dri and dri2 in xorg.conf.  I
had those commented out in the previously-attached config, not
realising that they're enabled by default.  (Though X still doesn't
seem to work quite right without those, for whatever that's worth).

Jeff
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Re: FreeBSD 7.2-RC2 Available

2009-04-26 Thread Ian Smith
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Ken Smith wrote:
 > On Sat, 2009-04-25 at 15:21 +1000, Ian Smith wrote:
 > > On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Ken Smith wrote:
 > >  > There is one known issue with 7.2-RC2.  We switched from KDE3 to KDE4
 > > 
 > > Oh, I'd been kinda hoping that wouldn't happen till after release.  I 
 > > guess our KDE folks must reckon it's shaken out enough already now ..
 > 
 > Yes, I contacted the two people who I was told most directly watch over
 > the KDE ports and both preferred we shift to KDE4.

Fair enough.  I've been too busy to follow its progress just lately.

 > > Will kde3 still be able to be installed from packages?  Will it be a big 
 > > deal to prefer staying with kde3 (mostly re older small-memory laptops)?
 > 
 > It will be available for install from packages through the net (FTP
 > based install, or one of the other package tools that can be told to
 > download the packages).  I'm afraid I can't fit it on the ISO release
 > media.

No that's fine, thanks Ken; glad to hear kde3 won't be obsoleted yet.

 > Even with the DVD media we currently have a limit caused by the
 > tool many of our mirror sites use for mirroring - files larger than 2Gb
 > cause issues (that's why the DVD image is gzip-ed).  We're slowly
 > working to resolve that.

Already got my RC2-bootonly - now all I need is some free time :)

Thanks, Ian
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