Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Feb 3, 2005, at 3:55 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote: [ ... ] Ah, I see, the starting point was actually the reverse assumption that all systems had /bin/env. Somebody mentioned /sbin/env on Irix, but I don't know whether that was instead of /usr/bin/env or in addition to it. Of course I can always handwave in the direction of those hundreds of Linux distributions... Rather than pursue a discussion about systems which neither of us actually uses (or anyone else on this list, probably), I would be just as happy to acknowledge whatever it is your point was and let this thread die peacefully. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Charles Swiger: > >Why should the authors of those scripts break them for systems which > >have /bin/env? > > Name one such system. [1] There was a discussion about this a few years ago on comp.unix.shell. Let's see... http://tinyurl.com/45zqx Ah, I see, the starting point was actually the reverse assumption that all systems had /bin/env. Somebody mentioned /sbin/env on Irix, but I don't know whether that was instead of /usr/bin/env or in addition to it. Of course I can always handwave in the direction of those hundreds of Linux distributions... -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Feb 3, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via:
#! /usr/bin/env perl
Why should the authors of those scripts break them for systems which
have /bin/env?
Name one such system. [1]
Hint: the path to env isn't going to change on a standards-compliant
system for the same reason that /bin/sh is always found in the same
place. See IEEE Std 1003.x-2001 ("POSIX").
--
-Chuck
[1]: You might actually find a few very old, very broken versions of
Linux which don't have a /bin/sh, only a /bin/bash. I've heard such
creatures may have a /bin/env rather than a /usr/bin/env, too.
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Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
In the last episode (Feb 03), Christian Weisgerber said: > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: > > #! /usr/bin/env perl > > Why should the authors of those scripts break them for systems which > have /bin/env? Are there any systems that have a /bin/env (and that do not also have a /bin -> /usr/bin symlink)? -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: > #! /usr/bin/env perl Why should the authors of those scripts break them for systems which have /bin/env? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote Jack L. Stone thusly... > > At 06:46 PM 1.30.2005 -0500, Parv wrote: > >in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > >wrote Anton Berezin thusly... > >> > >> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > >> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > >> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). > >> This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT > > > >I am for it. > > > >Please do do that. > > > >Thanks. > > Please don't do it > > If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by > far. Don't worry Anton has already stated, at least once, that the link(s) will live (and even more may be added) before i could have influenced him (fat chance given a large number of negative responses reached him before my sole positive reply). - Parv -- ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:31 -0600, Jack L. Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by far. I like change. Change is good and it keeps us on our toes. However, some things should not be changed for the sake of change. If /usr/bin/perl were no longer there, people would rather stick with an older version of BSD than change all their scripts and the scripts of their hosted clients. If we're voting, I vote nay. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: There is no SPORK ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
At 06:46 PM 1.30.2005 -0500, Parv wrote: >in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >wrote Anton Berezin thusly... >> >> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I >> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming >> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). >> This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT > >I am for it. > >Please do do that. > >Thanks. > - Parv Please don't do it If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by far. Best regards, Jack L. Stone, Administrator SageOne Net http://www.sage-one.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
> From: Matthias Andree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100 > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Holger Kipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. POLA always applies, but major releases are considered a good opportunity to make needed changes that would generate excessive astonishment on a minor update. This is at least too big for a minor update POLA violation and may well be too big for even a major version. FreeBSD does NOT exist to justify hier(7), style(9) or anything of the sort. These are tools to provide consistent behavior and make FreeBSD maintainable and understandable to developers and users, not to say "screw the users". Perl has been in /usr/bin on almost every Unix-like OS around for longer than FreeBSD has existed. I think changing something like this would be REALLY astonishing to way too many users and developers who happen to write Perl and expect to find it where the Perl documentation say to. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote Anton Berezin thusly... > > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). > This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT I am for it. Please do do that. Thanks. - Parv -- ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Jan 30, 2005, at 12:17, Kris Kennaway wrote: On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:47:08PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? As I mention above, it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce on third party scripts, so it would be wasted effort to try. Many years ago in a far off version, perl was a port and all my loyal subjects worked in peace and harmony. However, someone changed perl to be part of the base system. My subjects rebelled and refused to work saying the the perl of great price could no longer be found. After many hours of chasing this perl and correcting its location my subjects returned to work, and peace and harmony reigned again. Now I see perl going back towards being a port. This realm is not looking forward to another strike by its subjects. The grocery store strike here was more than enough. Don't need any more of them. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:47:08PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will > > conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the > > perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use > > a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use > > /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another > > hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). > > Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. > How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? As I mention above, it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce on third party scripts, so it would be wasted effort to try. Kris pgpobES3VncK8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin said: > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. options under discussion: 1) break *millions* of pieces of Perl software, plenty of it run by people unable or uninterested in modifying every last little corner of it (even with an automated find/replace, which is guaranteed to break *something*, and if I were them I would just switch to Debian at that point), so the FreeBSD's /usr/bin can have one less symlink by default. 2) respect the way the world actually is, and just leave the symlink in place. #1 does more than violate POLA; it's more akin to renaming /bin/cp to /bin/copy, in the name of progress, and saying everyone should just update their code. it's not clear to me how #1 is a serious choice. chris ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Anton Berezin wrote: In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. How about leaving it up to the installer? Much like the minicom port prompts the user if they would like to symlink a /dev/modem device, why not ask (post-install) "Would you like to make a symlink in /usr/bin to your new installation?" or as someone else has suggested add a make flag (make ADD_SYMLINK=yes). Those who wish to have an unpolluted /usr/bin can not opt for a symlink, those that want compatibility with a majority of the scripts already written can have the link created. Just a thought, Sven ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:44:38PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Erik Trulsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into > >> /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed > >> $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? > > > > Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. > > So ports not heeding PREFIX or LOCALBASE aren't buggy? Interesting POV. That is not what I said (but, no, they are not necessarily buggy depending on why the they don't heed PREFIX/LOCALBASE.) Respecting PREFIX and LOCALBASE is good, but keeping things working is even better. > > > And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that > > are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the > > de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of > > the script will work correctly. > > As mentioned before, #! /usr/bin/env perl is the canonic SHORT way to > run perl, longer ways are in perlrun(1). It might be the canonic way and it might even be the best way, but it is not the standard way. Older versions of perlrun(1) (like the one included in FreeBSD 4.x) does not even mention /usr/bin/env so don't expect too many scripts to use it (and the context in which 'env' is mentioned is handling OS-specific limitations of the #! mechanism.) perlrun(1) does however say that "When possible, it's good for both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl to be symlinks to the actual binary." -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:49:41PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Holger Kipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. Yes, it does - only not as strongly as in -STABLE. -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Holger Kipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > correct path. POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. -- Matthias Andree ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Holger Kipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl >=> many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" > b) we have a symlink now >=> many new scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" > c) many ISPs have even more users who assume "#!/usr/bin/perl" works. >=> removing a symlink to create lots_of_trouble(tm) is not the > freebsd-ish way of live. this single symlink is needed. The admin who wishes to have that symlink can place one himself. Why burden the base system with it if it has no use for Perl? -- Matthias Andree ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will > conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the > perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use > a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use > /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another > hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? -- Matthias Andree ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Erik Trulsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into >> /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed >> $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? > > Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. So ports not heeding PREFIX or LOCALBASE aren't buggy? Interesting POV. > And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that > are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the > de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of > the script will work correctly. As mentioned before, #! /usr/bin/env perl is the canonic SHORT way to run perl, longer ways are in perlrun(1). -- Matthias Andree ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:53:23AM +0100, Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > > with stable branches. > > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > the proposed change. It is not a *Linux* tradition. It is a *Perl* tradition which predates both Linux and FreeBSD. Most Perl documentation, going back over a decade, has used #!/usr/bin/perl in example scripts and strongly suggested that system administrators should put Perl there. I would say that there are probably more Perl scripts out there that refer to "#!/usr/bin/perl" than all other variants put together. > > > We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho > > the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the > > _dangling_ symlinks. -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Xander Damen wrote: > Why would upgraded systems cause problems? I don't think the > upgradesystem will delete any existing symlinks? I don't know about other people, but I use incremental upgrades for only minor releases on larger multi-user systems, generally. Because of the level of effort and typical differences between releases, I want a "break in" period in which I can check for incompatibilities, etc, before taking the new system live. This means that there is no "upgrade", there's only a "new install" -- the user data is migrated. Robert N M Watson > > Xander > > Lupe Christoph wrote: > > >On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > > > > > >>Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... > >> > >> > > > >"don't do that", ever. > > > >Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any > >upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. > > > >I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems > >with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm > >against it. > > > >If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the > >idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org > > > >My 2 Eurocents, > >Lupe Christoph > > > > > > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Oliver Brandmueller wrote: > - Don't change the behaviour on -STABLE (4.x, 5.x), but make an OPTION > available, that would turn on the "new" behaviour. > > - For -CURRENT (6.x and beyond), if the change comes, make an OPTION > available, to turn on the "old" behaviour. I think I'd be against this also -- those who followed by google fight link will have seen there were about 1.6 million references to "#!/usr/bin/perl" in Google, vs only about 67,000 references to "#!/usr/bin/env perl". One of the important goals in the 6.x work is to avoid creating unnecessary barriers to upgrades, in order to make transition from 5-STABLE to 6-STABLE much more seamless than the transition from 4-STABLE to 5-STABLE has been. Breaking everyone's perl scripts can hardly be described as "making upgrades seamless". :-) Robert N M Watson ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Holger Kipp wrote: On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl => many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" If "we" means FreeBSD-4, OK. Otherwise, I remember using a /usr/local/bin/perl-4.036 several years before vendors started shipping Perl with the system in /usr/bin. I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. fine, so we must keep the symlink in /usr/bin/ That is one solution, but it is not the only available choice. I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. Your problem. Write your scripts accordingly and be happy. Talk with several thousand programmers who use perl and assume it is located at /usr/bin/perl and convince them to write their programs differently. Otherwise, this breaks POLA. See c) As I said to Kris, I'm perfectly willing to change existing software or write my own to suit my preferences. If other people want to do something else which pleases them better, fine, that's up to them. I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. Fine, then _you_ can remove the symlink by hand on your systems every time. Or I could not bother and simply let env deal with finding the right version of perl. Works for me. I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. Huh? It was removed from the base system, so it belongs to /usr/local. There is a conflict between installing perl to /usr/local/bin and expecting to invoke perl from /usr/bin. Perhaps you've decided to live with it and are happy with symlinks so that both paths work. Get real. Oh, I am. Mostly. :-) Removing the symlinks permanently is causing lots of trouble. For some people, agreed. It doesn't matter one bit to other people... Not removing them is fine with me and at least most other users. Leaving the symlinks as they are now is probably the least intrusive way of dealing with the current mess that Perl script invocation has become. Fortunately, people doing Python seemed to have learned from these problems, as a quick check via GoogleFight suggests that the majority of Python scripts use env rather than hardcoding a path. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Kris Kennaway wrote: On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. And I want a pony :-) I don't expect to get what I want, either. :-) In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Good word, that. It is infeasible to get hundreds of people to all follow a convention-- any convention, no matter how simple and reasonable-- simply by wishing for it. Since a perfect solution does not exist, it is fortunate that we don't actually need one: just something that is good enough for now, for the present tasks. The Perl software I actually use either works fine regardless of whether perl is in /usr/bin, /sw/bin, /opt/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/pkg/bin, or who knows where else, or else I fix it to suit my requirements when I notice a problem. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Holger Kipp wrote: > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > with stable branches. > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > correct path. I have *never* assumed that Perl was in /usr/bin, so for me the POLA simply doesn't apply. In fact, the POLA would seem to say that you don't put a 3rd-party product into a system area. -- Dave, who was taught by JohnL ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 12:23:43PM +0100, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > +-le 30/01/2005 12:19 +0100, Kirill Ponomarew ?crivait : > | On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:08:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: > |> > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > |> > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > |> > the proposed change. > |> > > |> As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... > |> > |> It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily > |> find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and > |> /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. > | > | /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are *BOTH* in default $PATH. > > Last time I looked, cron did not have usr/local in it's path. I meant user enviroments, not cron. -Kirill ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
I think the color should be green. On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > Please respect Reply-To. > Thank you, > > \Anton. > -- > The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- > Jarkko Hietaniemi > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > -- Phil Bowens He who is the greatest of warriors overcomes and subdues himself. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
+-le 30/01/2005 12:19 +0100, Kirill Ponomarew écrivait : | On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:08:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: |> > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers |> > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for |> > the proposed change. |> > |> As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... |> |> It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily |> find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and |> /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. | | /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are *BOTH* in default $PATH. Last time I looked, cron did not have usr/local in it's path. -- Mathieu Arnold ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:11:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: > >find /some/directory -type f -print0 | \ > > xargs -0 perl -pi -e 's,^#! ?/usr(/local)?/bin/perl,#!/usr/bin/env > >perl' > > > > One problem I always had with "env" or equivalents... what happens if > someone manages to polute $PATH with a perl that is not infact perl but > something else, I remember being taught "Always specify full paths to > binaries, especially in cron". /usr/local/bin is default path in $PATH on FreeBSD, so problems like "what if it isn't perl, but something else" should be resolved by users/admins. -Kirill ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
HANKS! Don't despair, ironically Perl itself can solve this problem for you, using something like find /some/directory -type f -print0 | \ xargs -0 perl -pi -e 's,^#! ?/usr(/local)?/bin/perl,#!/usr/bin/env perl' One problem I always had with "env" or equivalents... what happens if someone manages to polute $PATH with a perl that is not infact perl but something else, I remember being taught "Always specify full paths to binaries, especially in cron". Cheers, Mark ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Edwin Groothuis wrote: > >On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >>Andrew McNaughton wrote: > >>#!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl > > > >"#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. > > Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose > to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the > interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl => many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" b) we have a symlink now => many new scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" c) many ISPs have even more users who assume "#!/usr/bin/perl" works. => removing a symlink to create lots_of_trouble(tm) is not the freebsd-ish way of live. this single symlink is needed. d) calling env and then perl increases load unneccessarily => don't do that. => if you like _YOUR_ scripts to work like that, it is fine with me ;-) e) comparing #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl with #!/usr/bin/perl -w => I'd vote for the simpler second one. > I don't want to revisit a discussion of whether Perl should be part of base. ok > I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. fine, so we must keep the symlink in /usr/bin/ > I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or > /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. Your problem. Write your scripts accordingly and be happy. Talk with several thousand programmers who use perl and assume it is located at /usr/bin/perl and convince them to write their programs differently. Otherwise, this breaks POLA. See c) > I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. Fine, then _you_ can remove the symlink by hand on your systems every time. > I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of > where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do > otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be > to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. Huh? It was removed from the base system, so it belongs to /usr/local. Get real. Removing the symlinks permanently is causing lots of trouble. Not removing them is fine with me and at least most other users. Regards, Holger Kipp ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sunday 30 January 2005 11:44, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > AB> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > AB> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > AB> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). > > AB> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > AB> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > AB> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > In all scripts of all my friends, who have hosting on my server & use > perl scripts? NO, THANKS! Don't despair, ironically Perl itself can solve this problem for you, using something like find /some/directory -type f -print0 | \ xargs -0 perl -pi -e 's,^#! ?/usr(/local)?/bin/perl,#!/usr/bin/env perl' - Frerich -- Windows: "Where do you want to go today?" Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?" pgpCmjDmRMR3o.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:53:23AM +0100, Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > > with stable branches. > > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > the proposed change. Long before I ever saw FreeBSD or Linux, there were symlinks on the AIX, SunOS and Solaris machines from /usr/bin/perl pointing to the right executables. It's not a Linux-ism, it's like what somebody already pointed out, best practice for Perl. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis |Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of > where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do > otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be > to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. And I want a pony :-) In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Kris pgpNvHMjnKQLY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > with stable branches. > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > correct path. If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for the proposed change. > We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho > the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the > _dangling_ symlinks. -Kirill ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:51:37PM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > >Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > >plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > >upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > >will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > >pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > >FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. [...] > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > with stable branches. It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the correct path. We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the _dangling_ symlinks. Regards, Holger Kipp ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Hello Anton, Saturday, January 29, 2005, 11:24:25 PM, you wrote: AB> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I AB> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming AB> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). AB> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in AB> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to AB> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. In all scripts of all my friends, who have hosting on my server & use perl scripts? NO, THANKS! -- Best regards, Levmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Edwin Groothuis wrote: On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: Andrew McNaughton wrote: #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl "#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. tobez@ is in the unenviable position of trying to support a language that was added and then removed from the base system. He can produce a port that respects $PREFIX by not changing anything outside of /usr/local, or one that provides backwards compatibility with Perl being part of the base system at the cost of creating extra symlinks and spamming /etc/make.conf. Since the decision to remove Perl from FreeBSD's base was not accompanied by universal recognition and acceptance that scripts should not hardcode a path to /usr/bin/perl, there exists a conflict which is not going to go away until either Perl gets added back to the base system, or the Perl scripts are fixed. I don't want to revisit a discussion of whether Perl should be part of base. I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Why would upgraded systems cause problems? I don't think the upgradesystem will delete any existing symlinks? Xander Lupe Christoph wrote: On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... "don't do that", ever. Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm against it. If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org My 2 Eurocents, Lupe Christoph ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... "don't do that", ever. Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm against it. If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org My 2 Eurocents, Lupe Christoph -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ | | Ask not what your computer can do for you | | ask what you can do for your computer. | ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Hello. On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. At least for -STABLE I see a big impact. I see no useful gain in that step anyway; I would just have to create the link on tens of machines by hand. If it turns out, that this will be the way to (which the discussion doesn't suggest), I would like to see something like this: - Don't change the behaviour on -STABLE (4.x, 5.x), but make an OPTION available, that would turn on the "new" behaviour. - For -CURRENT (6.x and beyond), if the change comes, make an OPTION available, to turn on the "old" behaviour. Something like "make PERL_POLLUTES_BASE=yes install clean" would just be fine. There are many good reasons, to have /usr/bin/perl available at just that place. Be it good style or not, the reality ist, that a lot of third party stuff depends on exactly that. - Oliver -- | Oliver Brandmueller | Offenbacher Str. 1 | Germany D-14197 Berlin | | Fon +49-172-3130856 | Fax +49-172-3145027 | WWW: http://the.addict.de/ | | Ich bin das Internet. Sowahr ich Gott helfe. | | Eine gewerbliche Nutzung aller enthaltenen Adressen ist nicht gestattet! | pgpZjA9XAgcbg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
> While I agree that correct ports shouldn't be affected, I think that this > will make a difference in how FreeBSD is looked at as a whole. I know that > when I write stuff for other people in perl, it is presumed that perl is in > /usr/bin, not /usr/local/bin because most of these people are running some > Linux distribution. I also thought that is was requested to have perl in > /usr/bin? I agree, having perl available in /usr/bin is one of the nice points of FreeBSD. I see strong reactions against removing the /usr/bin symlinks in 5.x. Good, presumably they will be allowed to stay. But I would also like to keep them for 6.x. As others have pointed out, removing those symlinks would create a lot of hassle for the users, for very little gain. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
> > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > What purpose does this serve? To keep the base system clean? I'm not > convinced that having just a few (2?) symlinks in /usr/bin will > "pollute" the base system, but it does save having to modify > potentially thousands of scripts. Isn't the latter *much* more > expensive? Agreed. Removing perl symlinks in /usr/bin is an incredibly bad idea. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Changing this so it affects 5-STABLE is suicide it will annoy a lot of user's and draw people away from FreeBSD to other platforms, I dont see any benefit from doing this the symlinks have caused me no ill effect whatsoever Chris On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:51:37 -0700, Scott Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > > > Please respect Reply-To. > > Thank you, > > > > \Anton. > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > with stable branches. > > Scott > ___ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Anton Berezin wrote: Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. Please respect Reply-To. Thank you, \Anton. I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid with stable branches. Scott ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Andrew McNaughton wrote: > #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl "#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis |Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Andrew McNaughton wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote: [ ... ] Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: #! /usr/bin/env perl ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. I commonly use this approach, but I run into some problems with flags. Probably a simple gotcha someone can help with. Eg the following useful constructs don't work: #!/usr/bin/env perl -p #!/usr/bin/env perl -T #!/usr/bin/env perl -w See "man perlrun" for some additional suggestions (and caveats), as it gives examples for passing -p to perl when invoked via /usr/bin/env or /bin/sh. You might also try putting a "--" between the 'env' and the 'perl' to indicate the end of command-line option processing to env. It's possible that taint mode cannot be invoked this way (as that needs to be set very early on), though. There also seems to exist a PERL5OPT variable which could be set like so: #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl This should support -T, too, only it will zap any additional args specified afterwards (or so the docs say)... -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Anton Berezin wrote: Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. No, in practical terms this does not mean a one-time sweep at all. It means we now have to manually create this symlink on all machines instead. There is simply no realistic way to change all scripts to use /usr/local/bin/perl (and keep finding/replacing this for all new scripts users may install - they usually don't come from the ports collection) - while this may be doable on a single user's local workstation, it is just not doable in places like an ISP environment, and no doubt many others. So then we'll be forced to create this symlink manually anyway, on all servers, probably for all eternity, and face the screaming users everytime someone forgets it on one. It also goes against what every other platform does with regards to perl, and it is IMHO a big POLA violation. So please - "don't do that". :( /leg ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote: Oliver Lehmann wrote: Anton Berezin wrote: In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: #! /usr/bin/env perl ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. I commonly use this approach, but I run into some problems with flags. Probably a simple gotcha someone can help with. Eg the following useful constructs don't work: #!/usr/bin/env perl -p #!/usr/bin/env perl -T #!/usr/bin/env perl -w Andrew McNaughton -- The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example." - George Bush, 26 June 2003 --- Andrew McNaughton http://www.scoop.co.nz/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: +61 422 753 792 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Matthias Andree wrote: Oliver Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Anton Berezin wrote: In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. Ports covers only a *very* small proportion of the perl scripts in use out there. There are for instance no end of CGI scripts and system automation scripts out there that are produced for in house use. Imagine what will be a fairly typical case: Some website owner who hired a programmer in the past to set stuff up suddenly finds their site is broken. They'll probably call their hosting provider first. The hosting provider might require all their affected customers to find someone who understands enough to fix this - which would add up to millions of dollars of expenditure worldwide if everyone took that approach. More likely, most hosting providers would put back in the symlinks that it is proposed to remove. They'll then have a 'non-standard' modification to maintain on their own systems, and this will probably be standard practice, not modifying all the scripts people want to put in. Seems like a lot of people wasting effort to me. Andrew McNaughton -- The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example." - George Bush, 26 June 2003 --- Andrew McNaughton http://www.scoop.co.nz/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: +61 422 753 792 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 03:39:51AM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Oliver Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > >> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > >> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > >> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into > /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed > $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. >From the Perl documentation: It may seem obvious to say, but Perl is useful only when users can easily find it. When possible, it's good for both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl to be symlinks to the actual binary. If that can't be done, system administrators are strongly encouraged to put (symlinks to) perl and its accompanying utilities, such as perldoc, into a directory typically found along a user's PATH, or in another obvious and convenient place. In this documentation, #!/usr/bin/perl on the first line of the script will stand in for whatever method works on your system. > > I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if > they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of the script will work correctly. No, the proposed change is a bad idea that will create lots of problems for very little gain. -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Oliver Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Anton Berezin wrote: > >> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. -- Matthias Andree ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Saturday 29 January 2005 21:24, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I Please, "don't do that"! http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#DEFINE-POLA -- /"\ Best regards, | [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News pgp9wLPC2pT6O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Anton, Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. While I agree that correct ports shouldn't be affected, I think that this will make a difference in how FreeBSD is looked at as a whole. I know that when I write stuff for other people in perl, it is presumed that perl is in /usr/bin, not /usr/local/bin because most of these people are running some Linux distribution. I also thought that is was requested to have perl in /usr/bin? In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. I would rather have a couple of symlinks chased down and removed than have potentially hundreds (or thousands) of scripts needing to be tweaked upon installation of a new piece of software that is predominantly Linux oriented. I try to wrote my stuff to work on multiple platforms (FreeBSD. Linux, Windows) without major modification as a practical thing. This would make it more platform dependent for patches or tech support. I would prefer to NOT see this change implemented. Doug ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, 2005-Jan-29 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: >In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >#! /usr/local/bin/perl. I'd also like to object. The perl documentation has consistently stated that a symlink to /usr/bin/perl should be created so that scripts can use #!/usr/bin/perl. Removing this symlink will impact users as well as administrators and (IMHO) will adversely impact on the image of FreeBSD. -- Peter Jeremy ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Jan 29, 2005, at 12:58 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. BTW, this goes beyond what I was asking for, which was just "remove the dangling symlinks when the package is deinstalled [because they are now nonfunctional]" It goes beyond that, and it should not. As others have stated, this breaks too much for very little benefit. It would be better to implement exactly what Kris suggested. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:17:47PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:09:05PM +0100, Oliver Lehmann wrote: > > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Yes, hence the HEADS UP with a possibility to back off if people really > sure it is a bad idea. With the removal of perl from the base-system, they put something in place to make sure that the installed version from the ports collection would be a drop-in replacement and that no functionality would be removed. It all worked like a charm. Be pragmatic, a little bit pollution (a handfull of symlinks only, not even real files) gives you the flexibility to run whatever Perl version you want. Please don't break it now. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis |Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Anton Berezin wrote: Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. I have to vote no on this. This will fundamentally break a majority of systems, for no well defined reason. The clean removal of a single symlink does not justify the pain it will create. If you want to do this in 6-CURRENT, then fine, but leave 5-STABLE alone. Think of this as the equivalent of an ABI change we doesn't happen without really good reason in STABLE. This is not a really good reason. Phil. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. What purpose does this serve? To keep the base system clean? I'm not convinced that having just a few (2?) symlinks in /usr/bin will "pollute" the base system, but it does save having to modify potentially thousands of scripts. Isn't the latter *much* more expensive? pgpLbZrwYS2bs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Chuck Swiger wrote: Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: #! /usr/bin/env perl ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. It seems that this usage is not that common. On my 5.3R system the stats are: 1101 scripts ending in .pl 490 of these have #! /perl as their 1st line 10 of these use #!/usr/bin/env perl regards Mark ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Oliver Lehmann wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? The following URL: http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=%23%21%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fperl&q2=%23%21%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fenv+perl&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us Suggests firmly that the answer to that question is yes. What worries me particularly about the proposed change is that it requires administrators to touch the scripts of their user's files as part of an upgrade -- this is not a good situation for an ISP to be put in. That or to immediately re-add the symlink on the basis that the practical reality is that (despite some limited documentation to the contrary), that's the way everyone runs perl. I have the suspicion that while removing this symlink may encourage programming cleanliness, it's going to shoot a lot of feet unnecessarily. Also, since env isn't a built-in, it means exec runs twice for every perl script, not once... Robert N M Watson ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 04:19:21PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Oliver Lehmann wrote: > >Anton Berezin wrote: > >>In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > >>order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > >>#! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > >Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: > > #! /usr/bin/env perl > > ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. True, but how many 3rd party scripts are well-behaved? A minority is my guess. -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Oliver Lehmann wrote: Anton Berezin wrote: In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: #! /usr/bin/env perl ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:09:05PM +0100, Oliver Lehmann wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Yes, hence the HEADS UP with a possibility to back off if people really sure it is a bad idea. \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
This has a huge external impact. Yes they are easily corrected but unless there is a specific need to remove them my vote would be to not put people though such a potentially painful change. Steve - Original Message - From: "Anton Berezin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Anton Berezin wrote: > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? -- Oliver Lehmann http://www.pofo.de/ http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/ ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. BTW, this goes beyond what I was asking for, which was just "remove the dangling symlinks when the package is deinstalled [because they are now nonfunctional]" Kris pgpJBhxqyhOqu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. Anyway do not forget about mail to portmgr with the patch 's|#!/usr/bin/perl|#!/usr/bin/env perl' for Tools/* stuff before committing these changes. -Kirill ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone
Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl. CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. Please respect Reply-To. Thank you, \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
