Re: Stable does not boot after make buildworld, ... Was: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
Christoph Sold wrote: > > IMHO, when big changes like aout-elf, or, recently, new tool chain tools > make changes to the build process unavoidable, /prominent/ hints for > stupid stable-only-readers like me should be placed everywhere*) -- in > case of aout->elf, I was warned, so that went through. This time I > plainly missed the warnings. This situation has been mishandled from the very beginning. People did the changes to current, where people are expected to be able to handle such things, and never really went back to make the situation acceptable for -stable users when -current became 4.x-stable. I warned, but people don't heed warnings, they heed patches. Sorry this caused you trouble. The instructions ought to be corrected, IMHO. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "There is no spoon." -- Kiki To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: Stable does not boot after make buildworld, ... Was: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000, Christoph Sold wrote:
> A-Ha! Now we get closer to the problem... read on, suggestions follow...
>
> "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote:
> >
> > Christoph Sold wrote:
> > >
> > > > Summary of Officially Sanctioned Update Procedure:
> > > >
> > > > make buildworld
> > > > make buildkernel
> > > > make installkernel
> > > > shutdown (drop into single-user mode)
> > > > make installworld
> > > > mergemaster
> > > > reboot
> > > >
> > > > Depart from the above procedure at your own risk. Thankyou :-)
> > >
> > > Been there, done that, to the last letter ('kay, I didn't type the
> > > "(drop into single-user..." part). Fresh install from 4.0-Release,
> > > CVSup'ed after the binutils were declared clean. The system panics when
> > > loading linux.ko.
> > >
> > > It seems to me there is something not working as intended.
> > >
> > > Can any helpful soul look at the stable build sequence shown and
> > > determine why it crashes during loading linux.ko?
> >
> > Yes. After the above procedure, your new kernel will be installed under
> > a different name, equal to the name of the kernel configuration file.
> > When booting, the old /kernel will get loaded, and that one is
> > incompatible with your newer modules.
> >
> > There are two ways around this:
> >
> > 1) Edit /boot/loader.conf and add the line kernel="XYZZY", where XYZZY
> > is the name of your kernel.
> > 2) See LINT (it's still LINT on -stable, right? :) for an option that
> > let you override the name, so that XYZZY will install kernels named
> > "kernel" again.
>
> As I have written: I have followed this procedure to the point. An 'lo,
> there was a kernel named (SURPRISE) GENERIC shamelessly sitting around
> at root.
>
> Can we safely
>
> a) assume when building the default (GENERIC) kernel it should be
> installed automagically so it boots automatically, and, if possible,
> move the old kernel to kernel.old automagically?
>
> b) make the build process so following the instructions to the point
>leads to a running system, automagically,
> or, alternatively
>change the build instructions to show the pitfalls more prominently?
>
> IMHO, when big changes like aout-elf, or, recently, new tool chain tools
> make changes to the build process unavoidable, /prominent/ hints for
> stupid stable-only-readers like me should be placed everywhere*) -- in
> case of aout->elf, I was warned, so that went through. This time I
> plainly missed the warnings.
>
> Just my .05 Euro
> -Christoph Sold
Read /usr/src/UPDATING for information on how to
compile and install a new kernel.
-Kevin
>
>
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Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
Shawn Barnhart wrote: > I guess it's not a question of finding glaring errors that seemed worthy of > send-pr, but things I found misleading, confusing or outdated by "newer and > better" procedures like make buildkernel. I got my commit bit by sending PRs which were as simple as typos sometimes. Go figure. :-) If you find _any_ documentation problem, it needs fixing. The first PR I committed was just a typo, too. -- Ben Smithurst / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / PGP: 0x99392F7D FreeBSD Documentation Project / PGP signature
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
- Original Message - From: "Nik Clayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | # cd /usr/gnats/docs | # grep -i barnhart * | # | | S'funny, this seems to be the first time you've told any of us. Next | time, please use send-pr(1) with the category set to "docs". It would be | appreciated if you could suggest alternative or replacement text in your | PR. | | Do this often enough and you get asked to become a committer. I guess it's not a question of finding glaring errors that seemed worthy of send-pr, but things I found misleading, confusing or outdated by "newer and better" procedures like make buildkernel. >From now on when I notice these things, I will send-pr them. I'm not a C whiz so I can't contribute in that fashion, but I'd be more than willing to contribute to documentation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
On Tue, Jul 11, 2000 at 01:33:58PM -0500, Shawn Barnhart wrote: > I guess I don't care which tools I use, so long as they do the right > thing, and, most importantly THAT THE METHODS ARE TOTALLY DOCUMENTED > WITH ALL THE QUIRKS IN THE FSCK'N HANDBOOK AND NOT JUST IN THE MAILING > LIST ARCHIVE! > > One thing that frustrates me about FBSD is the "docrot" of the handbook. > When I was getting started with FBSD I seemed to stumble across many > things that, while not exactly incorrect, were nevertheless incomplete > or outmoded by newer/better/smarter ways of doing things. # cd /usr/gnats/docs # grep -i barnhart * # S'funny, this seems to be the first time you've told any of us. Next time, please use send-pr(1) with the category set to "docs". It would be appreciated if you could suggest alternative or replacement text in your PR. Do this often enough and you get asked to become a committer. Thanks. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
In message <00b801bfeb66$94ab2960$9b239fc0@mobocracy> "Shawn Barnhart" writes: : I guess I don't care which tools I use, so long as they do the right : thing, and, most importantly THAT THE METHODS ARE TOTALLY DOCUMENTED : WITH ALL THE QUIRKS IN THE FSCK'N HANDBOOK AND NOT JUST IN THE MAILING : LIST ARCHIVE! Read UPDATING for late breaking news. We've been recommending this proceedure for building kernels since before 4.0 was released. It is documented. If there isn't a note in the handbook to look at UPDATING, there should be. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
> 1. The other 1199 new FreeBSD CD-ROM customers you need to get, are they more >likely to be CVSUPping, mailing-list tracking, make-worlding-since-2.0.1 The people who buy the CDs tend to be more "expert" in nature, it's the newcomers who generally FTP install the system. >experience? Or, to put it another way, where are you planning to grow >your market? CD sales is almost something of a loss-leader in the grander scheme of thing and won't, in and of itself, actually generate enough capital to grow the market all that much. Growing the market is a function of marketing and that's generally funded by a combination of VC money and other profit centers like hardware sales, support, custom engineering, etc. BSDi does all the of the latter and has obvious designs on the former. > 2. Pending market growth, there are limited commercial funds available for >discretionary expeditures. Priorities need to be set. Is ensuring that >the product documentation documents the product one of these priorities? Yes, it's been a priority for quite some time. Finding talented individuals who can significantly advance the state of the art in our documentation (e.g. they know how to write and can produce) is somewhat more problematic. Finding such individuals who are also available for employment has been even more problematic. I'm always looking for resumes! > 3. This particular problem does not require a high-skill, high-cost >developer. If you hired a moderately intelligent and responsible >high-school student to clean up the handbook over summer vacation, You significantly underestimate the size and complexity of the challenge if you honestly think this, and I speak as someone who's burned through more than a few high school students already. :( I even have full-time resources deployed on this during those times when we're looking for another vict^H^H^H^Hhigh school student to throw into the jaws, but they have a lot of other work competing for those 60 hours a week. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
"Jordan K. Hubbard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Once you add up his full benefit package (medical, dental, 401K, >insurance, etc) and salary, it still takes another 1199 of you to pay >for the rest of him just through buying CDs at full price, three times >a year. [...] >To summarize, it counts, but not nearly enough to make it a meaningful >answer to the quoted paragraph. Without one hell of a lot of >volunteers working very very hard, each and every open source project >out there would sink tomorrow if it had to switch to CD revenues as >the sole method of making technical, and many other forms of, >progress. Which is exactly as I thought, but there are three points I'd like to make, the above notwithstanding: 1. The other 1199 new FreeBSD CD-ROM customers you need to get, are they more likely to be CVSUPping, mailing-list tracking, make-worlding-since-2.0.1 experts, or are they likely to be complete newcomers to the FreeBSD experience? Or, to put it another way, where are you planning to grow your market? 2. Pending market growth, there are limited commercial funds available for discretionary expeditures. Priorities need to be set. Is ensuring that the product documentation documents the product one of these priorities? If not, see point 1. 3. This particular problem does not require a high-skill, high-cost developer. If you hired a moderately intelligent and responsible high-school student to clean up the handbook over summer vacation, once a year, with follow-up on weekends, it would be a significant improvement over the current situation and would set you back all of (3*120+9*16)*$10.00=$5,040/year, plus FICA, etc. Now, you're down to a few hundred CD's to cover the cost. There is a problem. If you don't have an elegant hack handy, an ugly hack is better than no hack at all. -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
> "KK" == Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: KK> support after the fact, and so people should be using the buildkernel KK> target if they want their kernel builds to work across upgrades. Which is a very different claim than saying you should *always* use buildkernel, and no other method is "supported". You're now qualifying your statement with "across upgrades". -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockville, MD +1-301-545-6996 GPG & MIME spoken herehttp://www.khera.org/~vivek/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Kris Kennaway wrote: >Well, I didn't see you very active with the 20-odd people who posted the >same build error this time around. And I think it makes much more sense to >teach people to use a tool which won't have dependency problems in the >first place than to catch them all individually once they've tried what >they knew and failed, and resorted to asking for help. But if you're going >to make a commitment to answer each and every one of them every time this >problem recurs, on every support forum, then I suppose it amounts to more >or less the same thing in the end. Kris, You have some very valid concerns from a support perspective, and I respect that. What I believe you are failing to take into account is the fact that the buildkernel target requires a full source repository and object tree. It is not that people object to a /usr/src level target for kernel builds, they object to the idea that The FreeBSD Project would require all users to have an entire source tree and object tree for something as common as a kernel build. Often users chose to stay with -RELEASE and those users need to be able to install only src-sys from their RELEASE CDROMs and build and install custom kernels. It would be a bit obtuse to do a full buildworld in order to obtain an object tree if one was planning on staying with -RELEASE code. The only way I can see making it feasible to for the buildworld target to be universally supported is to implement some sort of a check to see whether or not the version of the kernel code is different from that of the currently running kernel. If that is the case, then an object tree should be required. Otherwise buildkernel should use the build tools from the running system. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Doug Barton wrote: > There is also the option of naming your kernel config file "kernel". > Yes, but some people don't like to name their children "kernel" for whatever reason. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP! Always use the 'make buildkernel' target to make yerkernels
> "KK" == Kris Kennaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: KK> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Vivek Khera wrote: >> So you're saying that even after upgrading from 3.4 to 4.0 you should >> use make buildkernel? That seems counter to what has been discussed >> before, and is way non-BSD-ish. KK> Buildkernel internally handles tool dependency problems, where the kernel KK> build depends on tools which were built by make installworld, but not yet KK> installed on the system. The alternative is to post a detailed list of So if I don't have a "buildworld" /usr/obj tree sitting around, I am not supported to build a new kernel for my existing system, say, to add a new SCSI controller to a server? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockville, MD +1-301-545-6996 GPG & MIME spoken herehttp://www.khera.org/~vivek/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
