Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > As pointed out before, email is a can of worms easier avoided than > handled properly. Because "properly" means more than the classic > "reliably" and "without too much spam": FreedomBox "properly" includes > "free from maintenance" and "privacy-aware" and "low resource". > > How to limit spam on low-resource hardware without leaking privacy by > use of external spam filters external smtp hosting? > > Only way I see is to limit smtp to trusted peers - which means not > really standard internet email but custom FreedomBox-mail, as we need > some custom mechanism to resolve who are friends _and_ tighten smtp > setup to only communicate directly and securely with those friends. > > > - Jonas Jonas, I concur with you here. Has anyone among this group tried to experiment with running existing email server/client software in a FreedomBox-to-FreedomBox network? (assuming most would have to connect across commercial ISP lines). One idea is that different configurations could be created that run automated sending and receiving of email from a collection of freedom boxes using existing software (such as Thunderbird for client, Postfix and Courier for server, for instance). People with FreedomBoxes could volunteer to run these scripts/configurations in the background, and data could be collected to see how well it actually holds up under various conditions (a manager of scripts could be created that randomly turns on and off participant box email servers). In fact (and maybe this has been discussed previously) automated testing could be a way to try and objectively evaluate many ideas, especially seeing how the FreedomBox project seems to have at least a criteria of: (quoted from above): > "reliably" and "without too much spam": FreedomBox "properly" includes > "free from maintenance" and "privacy-aware" and "low resource". One could automate on many of these factors: reliability, vulnerability to spam attacks, privacy, and resource usage Freedom from maint. seems like something that could be tackled once the basics are solved, IMHO. ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 09:56:45 +0100, "Keith Fernie" wrote: > Install Postfix or Exim4 etc and Dovecot on the FreedomBox and send the > Friendica registration emails to the FreedomBox itself, without the emails > leaving the FreedomBox. > The FreedomBox user can use Imap or POP3 to read the emails from the > FreedomBox. That wasn't possible until this morning, when Mike [0] allowed Friendica to start using @localhost email addresses. Given how he put that fix together in about twenty minutes, that's impressive customer service! 0: https://macgirvin.com/profile/mike pgpTAjFt4GZHx.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 10:41:21PM -0400, Stephen Michael Kellat wrote: > If memory serves, exim4 is part of the default base in Debian. That > should be worked with. You're top-posting (message unchanged below). Exim4 might be default, but postfix has a considerably better vulnerability story. > Stephen Michael Kellat, MSLS > > On Sun, Jul 1, 2012, at 19:43, Nick M. Daly wrote: > > Has anybody given thought to getting FreedomBoxes to send emails? I > > thought I'd build out a quick win this weekend and add Friendica to the > > plugserver setup scripts [0], but Friendica sends registration emails, > > and there's no other way to deliver the registration information > > (Jabber, etc). So, until we get email delivery, we won't have that > > particular social networking software. > > > > Any ideas on that front? Email would also make a number of other things > > easier, so it seems useful outside of this particular problem. > > > > Nick > > ___ > > Freedombox-discuss mailing list > > Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org > > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss > > Email had 1 attachment: > > + Attachment1.2 > > 1k (application/pgp-signature) ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/07/12 04:38, bnewb...@robocracy.org wrote: > I'm not an email expert, but I don't think that low-volume email > sourced from random or residential IP ranges is reliably accepted > by all hosts and services for abuse reasons. I would imagine that > in the long run, a regular-email-sending mechanism hosted on > independent nodes (aka, FreedomBoxes running at home not relying a > specific external service) would require the ability to receive > email (to handle bounces correctly) and "proper" forward and > reverse DNS entries (for SPF records; need resolved IP of the > delivering server to be authorized in DNS records). Another issue is that some residential ISPs block outgoing SMTP connections to mail servers other than their own. I'm pessimistic about the chances of running a zero-configuration SMTP server on a residential connection. It's just too similar to what spam botnets are trying to do, and what ISPs are therefore trying to prevent. > Maybe mixmaster (an anonymous remailer service) could be used? > Doesn't help with the exit node problem. I haven't looked at the Mixmaster docs, but Mixminion doesn't allow non-anonymous email to be routed through the remailer network: the exit node always supplies the From address, it can't be specified by the sender. However, remailer networks would benefit from cover traffic, so it might be possible to work with the remailer developers to get this changed. Cheers, Michael -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP8XXmAAoJEBEET9GfxSfMAJkH/3Jucmx4oxST/RCDzwKZuL7s vM5ZEyFgvrE1KeWtL86FmWBCNET2PGl7aUPObO5UV+8u+ex0AnXOMkocQ5HPHIII d52tjcbUFg2ALUsCdWMTkPgdcd5g4VdTh2sa2Rha4krtLE5ZEoYEcG2cPCxEU3l5 uY3yqTyAZAD0z2RuPGGkMzX6aomYJe5ulg5QzcMG36aILmUxs3mv+bkQOLNFnpyL 7iJJ2ifg2qZ2SIUuW1mVYNTdXCWMh1c9rSoeRBhhBjCvRzvO1QcN+aWIF7RDOHm+ nysBCLh2NOegoMWdDkNJB8APvzydupuyYtl9Q5T74IstpxGp4s4HpdXk+0DmuR4= =c6nq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
On 12-07-01 at 07:43pm, Nick M. Daly wrote: > Has anybody given thought to getting FreedomBoxes to send emails? Sure. Try search the archive of this mailinglist for "email" and/or "smtp"... Here are some examples (biased - make a search yourself for other opinions): http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2010-October/000199.html http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2011-August/002618.html > I thought I'd build out a quick win this weekend and add Friendica to > the plugserver setup scripts [0], but Friendica sends registration > emails, and there's no other way to deliver the registration > information (Jabber, etc). So, until we get email delivery, we won't > have that particular social networking software. > > Any ideas on that front? Email would also make a number of other > things easier, so it seems useful outside of this particular problem. As pointed out before, email is a can of worms easier avoided than handled properly. Because "properly" means more than the classic "reliably" and "without too much spam": FreedomBox "properly" includes "free from maintenance" and "privacy-aware" and "low resource". How to limit spam on low-resource hardware without leaking privacy by use of external spam filters external smtp hosting? Only way I see is to limit smtp to trusted peers - which means not really standard internet email but custom FreedomBox-mail, as we need some custom mechanism to resolve who are friends _and_ tighten smtp setup to only communicate directly and securely with those friends. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
Install Postfix or Exim4 etc and Dovecot on the FreedomBox and send the Friendica registration emails to the FreedomBox itself, without the emails leaving the FreedomBox. The FreedomBox user can use Imap or POP3 to read the emails from the FreedomBox. ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
Install Postfix or Exim4 etc and Dovecot on the FreedomBox and send the Friendica registration emails to the FreedomBox itself, without the emails leaving the FreedomBox. The FreedomBox user can use Imap or POP3 to read the emails from the FreedomBox. ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
On Sun, 1 Jul 2012, Nick M. Daly wrote: Has anybody given thought to getting FreedomBoxes to send emails? I thought I'd build out a quick win this weekend and add Friendica to the plugserver setup scripts [0], but Friendica sends registration emails, and there's no other way to deliver the registration information (Jabber, etc). So, until we get email delivery, we won't have that particular social networking software. Hmmm, sounds like the root of this problem is authentication and access control for Friendica, right? Is there an OpenId, WebId, or MonkeySphere plugin for Friendica? That might be easier than getting email working. Answering the email question, it seems reasonable to configure a system-wide tool (sendmail?) to send email via a secure connection to a configured external (or local) server. For most users/developers this would be the outgoing mail server of their personal email account, but could also be localhost or some other mechanism down the line. Requiring/recommending an external outgoing mail service and entering personal account credentials probably don't align with the FBx's design goals, but this would allow progress for now without getting too side tracked, while remaining future-compatible. I'm not an email expert, but I don't think that low-volume email sourced from random or residential IP ranges is reliably accepted by all hosts and services for abuse reasons. I would imagine that in the long run, a regular-email-sending mechanism hosted on independent nodes (aka, FreedomBoxes running at home not relying a specific external service) would require the ability to receive email (to handle bounces correctly) and "proper" forward and reverse DNS entries (for SPF records; need resolved IP of the delivering server to be authorized in DNS records). These requirements may very well be achievable under the FBx design goals, but doesn't seem to be yet. Apologies in advance if this is misinformed, email delivery and abuse reduction is a complicated topic, and these are just steps I had to go through to get email delivered reliably from my own independent mail servers. Maybe mixmaster (an anonymous remailer service) could be used? Doesn't help with the exit node problem. -bryan ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
If memory serves, exim4 is part of the default base in Debian. That should be worked with. Stephen Michael Kellat, MSLS On Sun, Jul 1, 2012, at 19:43, Nick M. Daly wrote: > Has anybody given thought to getting FreedomBoxes to send emails? I > thought I'd build out a quick win this weekend and add Friendica to the > plugserver setup scripts [0], but Friendica sends registration emails, > and there's no other way to deliver the registration information > (Jabber, etc). So, until we get email delivery, we won't have that > particular social networking software. > > Any ideas on that front? Email would also make a number of other things > easier, so it seems useful outside of this particular problem. > > Nick > ___ > Freedombox-discuss mailing list > Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss > Email had 1 attachment: > + Attachment1.2 > 1k (application/pgp-signature) ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
[Freedombox-discuss] Email on FreedomBoxen?
Has anybody given thought to getting FreedomBoxes to send emails? I thought I'd build out a quick win this weekend and add Friendica to the plugserver setup scripts [0], but Friendica sends registration emails, and there's no other way to deliver the registration information (Jabber, etc). So, until we get email delivery, we won't have that particular social networking software. Any ideas on that front? Email would also make a number of other things easier, so it seems useful outside of this particular problem. Nick pgpaU1s4KW03D.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
