Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
On Thursday 08 May 2014 12:48 AM, Chris Troutner wrote: > Good points Jurgen. I agree that an internet appliance like a > FreedomBox should be lean and fast. There are a few solutions to > combining the overhead of intensive appliances, like OwnCloud or > XBMC. [...] > Another solution would be to throttle services when running PCU > intensive programs. I'm thinking along the lines of shutting down > OwnCloud and TOR when running XBMC; devoting resources to a primary > task over other 'secondary' tasks. The main point here is that > someone playing back a DVD ISO would happen infrequently. Once the > movie watching is over, the box can switch back to running its > Freedombox apps full-bore. I don't imagine that most services will on by default on FreedomBox. With a large scope, it will be an ala carte service. Users will be able to choose what purposes they wish to use their device. If not all services can run simultaneously, the users will decide what take higher priority same as a general purpose OS on a low end machine. For example, some users might very well pick Tor + XBMC over Tor + OwnCloud. > > Another point to keep in mind is that most of the video processing > takes place via the Pi's FPGA. I haven't tried OwnCloud on the Pi > (though I'm looking forward to it), but it's performance wouldn't be > a good comparison to XBMC. I found several benchmarks online showing > how good the Pi is at DVD ISO playback. Multitasking while performing > playback, however, is unlikely to be impressive. Indeed, a lot of hardware now is capable of doing 2160p video decoding if not 1080p. If work goes on in the direction of giving media center capabilities to FreedomBox on RaspberryPi, a lot of it will also be helpful for other devices like the Beagle boards, TV sticks, etc. We already have builds available for BeagleBone Black. There are a lot of devices already more powerful than the Pi and the situation is getting better everyday. And future iterations of RPi might be more powerful. XBMC latest release has hardware decoding for Android platform. We are seeing a lot of reverse engineering work to produce free software drivers for 2D/3D graphics and video processing. Some companies are opening up too. I believe that it is only a matter time before many of these devices get good free software accelerated video playback capabilities. Running XBMC might be too much then, if it is now. On Thursday 08 May 2014 11:35 PM, Chris Troutner wrote:> All, > > I'm pushing forward with the idea of running the FreedomBox software > and XBMC as a media server on a Raspberry Pi. Please do. If it works out, I don't see why an optional application would not be welcome. I have an RPi with me and I shall try to help out with any problems if I can, although I am mainly focused on other tasks. -- Sunil signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
All, I'm pushing forward with the idea of running the FreedomBox software and XBMC as a media server on a Raspberry Pi. I'm not sure how far I'll get, but I'll update my blog with what I find out. I just posted the research I've done thus far: http://experimentsinfreedom.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/creating-a-media-server/ I'm really impressed with how easy it is to load different software packages and switch between OS builds on the Raspberry Pi. Cheers! -Chris Troutner ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
Good points Jurgen. I agree that an internet appliance like a FreedomBox should be lean and fast. There are a few solutions to combining the overhead of intensive appliances, like OwnCloud or XBMC. One solution, like you proposed, is to run two boxes connected together. I really like this idea actually and I think it has a lot of merit, particularly as a prototype. But most people won't want to pay for double hardware, so for the sake of argument, let's explore alternative solutions. Another solution would be to throttle services when running PCU intensive programs. I'm thinking along the lines of shutting down OwnCloud and TOR when running XBMC; devoting resources to a primary task over other 'secondary' tasks. The main point here is that someone playing back a DVD ISO would happen infrequently. Once the movie watching is over, the box can switch back to running its Freedombox apps full-bore. Another point to keep in mind is that most of the video processing takes place via the Pi's FPGA. I haven't tried OwnCloud on the Pi (though I'm looking forward to it), but it's performance wouldn't be a good comparison to XBMC. I found several benchmarks online showing how good the Pi is at DVD ISO playback. Multitasking while performing playback, however, is unlikely to be impressive. -Chris Troutner *Jurgen wrote:* Please remember we're talking about RasPi here... running OwnCloud for a single user is already pulling this machine to its knees. If you'd start adding TOR, mailpile, etc... I'm assuming this would really start running really slow. Now add another thingie called XBMC... and you'll probably get a media centre with a framerate of 1fps at best. I doubt this would give a good experience - and would be counter productive: people would consider the RasPi/Freedombox as a piece of crap. Keeping it lean and spiffy is the way to go. Obviously, you could have some torrent client running on your Freedombox, and use a separate RasPi to function as a media centre, and possibly even pull its (legally or otherwise acquired) movies from your freedombox. This way, you're actually putting your RasPi in good use twice (but you'll need 2 of them). :) Grtz, Jurgen. ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
On 05/06/2014 04:26 PM, Jurgen Gaeremyn wrote: Hey all, I think I'm way out of my league when I try contributing to this page... can't help opening my mouth though... Please remember we're talking about RasPi here... running OwnCloud for a single user is already pulling this machine to its knees. If you'd start adding TOR, mailpile, etc... I'm assuming this would really start running really slow. You can actually have a look at arkos (arkos.io) in its current state to get a sense of how OwnCloud, Tor, et al perform together on a Raspberry Pi. The most recent revision includes the ability to run a mail server-- it doesn't sound like the installation is easy for that yet but you can at least get an idea of performance with a mailserver running. -Jonathan Now add another thingie called XBMC... and you'll probably get a media centre with a framerate of 1fps at best. I doubt this would give a good experience - and would be counter productive: people would consider the RasPi/Freedombox as a piece of crap. Keeping it lean and spiffy is the way to go. Obviously, you could have some torrent client running on your Freedombox, and use a separate RasPi to function as a media centre, and possibly even pull its (legally or otherwise acquired) movies from your freedombox. This way, you're actually putting your RasPi in good use twice (but you'll need 2 of them). :) Grtz, Jurgen. On 06-05-14 22:11, Chris Troutner wrote: My (personal) idea of a "FreedomBox" is the suite of software built and loaded onto a piece of hardware from the Freedombox 'package'. Not necessarily Plinth, as that is just a configuration program, but things like TOR, privoxy, JWChat, and other stuff like encrypted email. I *really* like the stance this project has taken to use Freedom-maker and Plinth to make the build and configuration as easy and painless as possible. My inspiration for this idea comes from the fact that I've tried to describe Freedombox to my friends and family and haven't gotten much of a reaction from them. They think it's a cool idea, but the immediate benefit to them isn't apparent. However, they all get excited by the idea of a media center... and wouldn't mind contributing some network capacity to the TOR network while they're at it. If xbmc and whatever other packages were needed to get a basic media player running on the Raspberry Pi were included in the freedom-maker script for that hardware target, it would make the Freedombox a much easier sell to the common person. This same notion could be said for the personal cloud storage, which I am also stoked to see being added to the project. The benefit for the non-privacy-sensitive person is clear and immediate, and would make adoption and proliferation of the privacy-promoting software easier. -Chris Troutner /Jonas said:/ ...but that's just me. It really depends quite essentially on what you mean by "FreedomBox", and I shall not judge you on that. - Jonas ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
Hey all, I think I'm way out of my league when I try contributing to this page... can't help opening my mouth though... Please remember we're talking about RasPi here... running OwnCloud for a single user is already pulling this machine to its knees. If you'd start adding TOR, mailpile, etc... I'm assuming this would really start running really slow. Now add another thingie called XBMC... and you'll probably get a media centre with a framerate of 1fps at best. I doubt this would give a good experience - and would be counter productive: people would consider the RasPi/Freedombox as a piece of crap. Keeping it lean and spiffy is the way to go. Obviously, you could have some torrent client running on your Freedombox, and use a separate RasPi to function as a media centre, and possibly even pull its (legally or otherwise acquired) movies from your freedombox. This way, you're actually putting your RasPi in good use twice (but you'll need 2 of them). :) Grtz, Jurgen. On 06-05-14 22:11, Chris Troutner wrote: My (personal) idea of a "FreedomBox" is the suite of software built and loaded onto a piece of hardware from the Freedombox 'package'. Not necessarily Plinth, as that is just a configuration program, but things like TOR, privoxy, JWChat, and other stuff like encrypted email. I *really* like the stance this project has taken to use Freedom-maker and Plinth to make the build and configuration as easy and painless as possible. My inspiration for this idea comes from the fact that I've tried to describe Freedombox to my friends and family and haven't gotten much of a reaction from them. They think it's a cool idea, but the immediate benefit to them isn't apparent. However, they all get excited by the idea of a media center... and wouldn't mind contributing some network capacity to the TOR network while they're at it. If xbmc and whatever other packages were needed to get a basic media player running on the Raspberry Pi were included in the freedom-maker script for that hardware target, it would make the Freedombox a much easier sell to the common person. This same notion could be said for the personal cloud storage, which I am also stoked to see being added to the project. The benefit for the non-privacy-sensitive person is clear and immediate, and would make adoption and proliferation of the privacy-promoting software easier. -Chris Troutner /Jonas said:/ ...but that's just me. It really depends quite essentially on what you mean by "FreedomBox", and I shall not judge you on that. - Jonas ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
My (personal) idea of a "FreedomBox" is the suite of software built and loaded onto a piece of hardware from the Freedombox 'package'. Not necessarily Plinth, as that is just a configuration program, but things like TOR, privoxy, JWChat, and other stuff like encrypted email. I *really* like the stance this project has taken to use Freedom-maker and Plinth to make the build and configuration as easy and painless as possible. My inspiration for this idea comes from the fact that I've tried to describe Freedombox to my friends and family and haven't gotten much of a reaction from them. They think it's a cool idea, but the immediate benefit to them isn't apparent. However, they all get excited by the idea of a media center... and wouldn't mind contributing some network capacity to the TOR network while they're at it. If xbmc and whatever other packages were needed to get a basic media player running on the Raspberry Pi were included in the freedom-maker script for that hardware target, it would make the Freedombox a much easier sell to the common person. This same notion could be said for the personal cloud storage, which I am also stoked to see being added to the project. The benefit for the non-privacy-sensitive person is clear and immediate, and would make adoption and proliferation of the privacy-promoting software easier. -Chris Troutner *Jonas said:* ...but that's just me. It really depends quite essentially on what you mean by "FreedomBox", and I shall not judge you on that. - Jonas ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
Quoting Chris Troutner (2014-05-06 21:27:10) > Good point Ben. I guess the unspoken question I had then is: what do > people think about the idea of merging a Freedombox and media center? > > If one wanted to do this, where would you start? Take a Freedombox > build and add video support, or start with Raspbian with video > support and try to merge Freedombox packages into it? What do you mean when you say "FreedomBox"? I'd say that if one wanted to merge a FreedomBox with a media center, one would... a) actually realize FreedomBox b) apt-get install xbmc (or the equivalent on that box) ...but that's just me. It really depends quite essentially on what you mean by "FreedomBox", and I shall not judge you on that. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
Good point Ben. I guess the unspoken question I had then is: what do people think about the idea of merging a Freedombox and media center? If one wanted to do this, where would you start? Take a Freedombox build and add video support, or start with Raspbian with video support and try to merge Freedombox packages into it? -Chris Troutner *Ben Wrote:* I think you've already answered your own question that such a feature is entirely outside the scope of the freedombox project. There are already a number of projects that aim to turn the Raspberry Pi into a media center. Any one of them is usable today to achieve what you've suggested. -Ben Cook ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
On 05/06/2014 02:44 PM, Chris Troutner wrote: > I want to ask a simple question, but the more I think about it, the more I > realize it's not a simple question. The simple question is this: > > Is there any support for the video output of the Raspberry Pi in the > current version of Freedombox? > > I'm going to assume that very little to no effort has been expended to > support the Pi's video output. Please correct me if this is a false > assumption. > > The reason I don't think that is such a simple question is that Pi specific > builds, like Raspbian, have great video support, so it could theoretically > be moved in easily. However, I realize that many are begrudgingly > supporting the Pi as target hardware because of it's proprietary binary > blobs (although this may have changed?). > > My personal opinion (read: feel free to disagree with me) is that a 'killer > app' for the Raspberry Pi/Freedombox would be along the lines of the > ability to plug a portable hard-drive into the Pi and play DVD ISO files on > the video output. I realize this is totally out of the scope of the goals > of the freedombox, but it would be an easy way to incentive non-nerds to > buy the hardware and install it in their living rooms. > > At that point, those people's nerdy, freedombox supporting friends can help > them with the administration and add-ons of freedom promoting software like > TOR, encrypted email, web ad filtering, etc. > > It would allow me to tell my friends and family: "Hey, give me $100 to > build you this great media device that lets you store and playback your > DVDs and music. And by the way, I can also load all this software for you > that helps support libertarian, internet freedom and help protect you from > NSA spying." > > What do you all think? > > -Chris Troutner > http://experimentsinfreedom.wordpress.com/ > > > > ___ > Freedombox-discuss mailing list > Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss > I think you've already answered your own question that such a feature is entirely outside the scope of the freedombox project. There are already a number of projects that aim to turn the Raspberry Pi into a media center. Any one of them is usable today to achieve what you've suggested. -Ben Cook ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
[Freedombox-discuss] Raspberry Pi Video Support
I want to ask a simple question, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it's not a simple question. The simple question is this: Is there any support for the video output of the Raspberry Pi in the current version of Freedombox? I'm going to assume that very little to no effort has been expended to support the Pi's video output. Please correct me if this is a false assumption. The reason I don't think that is such a simple question is that Pi specific builds, like Raspbian, have great video support, so it could theoretically be moved in easily. However, I realize that many are begrudgingly supporting the Pi as target hardware because of it's proprietary binary blobs (although this may have changed?). My personal opinion (read: feel free to disagree with me) is that a 'killer app' for the Raspberry Pi/Freedombox would be along the lines of the ability to plug a portable hard-drive into the Pi and play DVD ISO files on the video output. I realize this is totally out of the scope of the goals of the freedombox, but it would be an easy way to incentive non-nerds to buy the hardware and install it in their living rooms. At that point, those people's nerdy, freedombox supporting friends can help them with the administration and add-ons of freedom promoting software like TOR, encrypted email, web ad filtering, etc. It would allow me to tell my friends and family: "Hey, give me $100 to build you this great media device that lets you store and playback your DVDs and music. And by the way, I can also load all this software for you that helps support libertarian, internet freedom and help protect you from NSA spying." What do you all think? -Chris Troutner http://experimentsinfreedom.wordpress.com/ ___ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
