Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Maarten  wrote:
> 
> I don’t have something to tell you about the problem, unfortunatly. But I 
> have something what might is an idea, but you all know that better then me.
>  
> Maybe we can provide an ‘upgrade’-installer and a System-installer. The 
> upgrade installer you just run from DOS os’s. If we can, we put both 
> installers in that setup image. But when the user chooses upgrade [1] you 
> copy the upgrade/update installer to the drive and you reboot the system, let 
> them run that installer. This solves the problem of drive letters, and is 
> simpler to run. You don’t need to run the setup installer, because this asks 
> you things you don’t need when upgrading your old FreeDOS and/or MS-DOS, 
> PC-DOS etc.
>  
> The system-installer would just be the FDI we all know. :)

I don’t think it would be needed. FDI detects wether or not a previous install 
is present. 
In normal mode. It will import language and the FreeDOS directory settings if 
present.
So, removes the Language screen automatically.

Says Welcome to installer, continue?
Asks if the user wants to back up old files?
Asks, base or full w/without sources?
Asks, if they are now ready to install just in case?
When done, asks if user wants to reboot?

I don’t see how a separate upgrade only version could reduce the number of 
questions or 
simplify the process for the user.

If the user is installing to a formatted but empty drive in normal mode:

Select language?
Welcome, continue?
Base or Full, w.without sources?
Do the install or quit?
Reboot or exit to DOS?

In advanced mode, the user gets to play “50 questions” because almost
nothing is assumed.


>  
>  
> [1] probably you need to prompt “This will upgrade you from any DOS OS. Setup 
> will copy the installer to your disk. To run type: ‘Upgrade’.”
>  
>  
> Maarten
>  
>  
>  
> Working on:
> Bird OS 2017 1.0.0a (Western Schreech-Owl)
>  
> Van: Jerome E. Shidel Jr. 
> Verzonden: dinsdag 23 februari 2016 19:19
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers. 
> 
> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue
>  
> I have a report of another issue regarding the USB stick installer.
>  
> Basically, the user has 2 drives. one MS-DOS and one Other DOS formatted.
>  
> The user boots the USB stick and all seems well through the install process. 
>  
> Reboots, and is faced with MS-DOS again. FreeDOS installed to D:.
>  
> After, a little back and forth, it turns out that when he boots the USB stick
> the USB stick is Drive C: and the other DOS drive is D:. The original 
> MS-DOS C: drive is nowhere to be found.
>  
> So, the installer behaves correctly. But, FreeDOS is not the boot drive. 
>  
> This appears to be completely BIOS related and I don’t think there is
> anything the installer can do about it. 
>  
> The solution was to to just boot MS-DOS and switch over to whatever
> drive letter the USB stick now has and run setup.bat. This method was 
> not optimal, but worked fine.
>  
> Like I said, I don’t think there is anything the installer can do about it. 
> But, it is something to be remembered.
>  
> Thanks, Jerome
>  
>  
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

[Maarten]

I don’t have something to tell you about the problem, unfortunatly. But I have 
something what might is an idea, but you all know that better then me.

Maybe we can provide an ‘upgrade’-installer and a System-installer. The upgrade 
installer you just run from DOS os’s. If we can, we put both installers in that 
setup image. But when the user chooses upgrade [1] you copy the upgrade/update 
installer to the drive and you reboot the system, let them run that installer. 
This solves the problem of drive letters, and is simpler to run. You don’t need 
to run the setup installer, because this asks you things you don’t need when 
upgrading your old FreeDOS and/or MS-DOS, PC-DOS etc.

The system-installer would just be the FDI we all know. :)


[1] probably you need to prompt “This will upgrade you from any DOS OS. Setup 
will copy the installer to your disk. To run type: ‘Upgrade’.”


Maarten



Working on:
Bird OS 2017 1.0.0a (Western Schreech-Owl)

Van: Jerome E. Shidel Jr.
Verzonden: dinsdag 23 februari 2016 19:19
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

I have a report of another issue regarding the USB stick installer.

Basically, the user has 2 drives. one MS-DOS and one Other DOS formatted.

The user boots the USB stick and all seems well through the install process. 

Reboots, and is faced with MS-DOS again. FreeDOS installed to D:.

After, a little back and forth, it turns out that when he boots the USB stick
the USB stick is Drive C: and the other DOS drive is D:. The original 
MS-DOS C: drive is nowhere to be found.

So, the installer behaves correctly. But, FreeDOS is not the boot drive. 

This appears to be completely BIOS related and I don’t think there is
anything the installer can do about it. 

The solution was to to just boot MS-DOS and switch over to whatever
drive letter the USB stick now has and run setup.bat. This method was 
not optimal, but worked fine.

Like I said, I don’t think there is anything the installer can do about it. 
But, it is something to be remembered.

Thanks, Jerome


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

[Louis Santillan]

fdisk can provide more info in this situation I think.  I think it can
actually map (print) all the BIOS drives and their BIOS port number.
Running `fdisk /dump` [0] should do it.

[0] http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/fdisk.htm

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.
 wrote:
> I have a report of another issue regarding the USB stick installer.
>
> Basically, the user has 2 drives. one MS-DOS and one Other DOS formatted.
>
> The user boots the USB stick and all seems well through the install process.
>
> Reboots, and is faced with MS-DOS again. FreeDOS installed to D:.
>
> After, a little back and forth, it turns out that when he boots the USB stick
> the USB stick is Drive C: and the other DOS drive is D:. The original
> MS-DOS C: drive is nowhere to be found.
>
> So, the installer behaves correctly. But, FreeDOS is not the boot drive.
>
> This appears to be completely BIOS related and I don’t think there is
> anything the installer can do about it.
>
> The solution was to to just boot MS-DOS and switch over to whatever
> drive letter the USB stick now has and run setup.bat. This method was
> not optimal, but worked fine.
>
> Like I said, I don’t think there is anything the installer can do about it.
> But, it is something to be remembered.
>
> Thanks, Jerome
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

I have a report of another issue regarding the USB stick installer.

Basically, the user has 2 drives. one MS-DOS and one Other DOS formatted.

The user boots the USB stick and all seems well through the install process. 

Reboots, and is faced with MS-DOS again. FreeDOS installed to D:.

After, a little back and forth, it turns out that when he boots the USB stick
the USB stick is Drive C: and the other DOS drive is D:. The original 
MS-DOS C: drive is nowhere to be found.

So, the installer behaves correctly. But, FreeDOS is not the boot drive. 

This appears to be completely BIOS related and I don’t think there is
anything the installer can do about it. 

The solution was to to just boot MS-DOS and switch over to whatever
drive letter the USB stick now has and run setup.bat. This method was 
not optimal, but worked fine.

Like I said, I don’t think there is anything the installer can do about it. 
But, it is something to be remembered.

Thanks, Jerome


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

[Maarten]

I was thinking and we may can do 5 again…. We already have that, it works. We 
only need to copy it right? :)

Maarten





Van: Louis Santillan
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2016 11:16
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue

I'm recanting my original vote.  Option 3.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Louis Santillan  wrote:
> I think the we need to emulate MS-DOS in this respect.  Or take option 5.
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>> There is an additional option.
>> 5) just do something similar FreeDOS 1.1.  Make a backup of old MBR, then
>> just blast new MBR.
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Those 3&4 , prompting we can translate. That’s bo problem because it’s
>> writing. For me the question remains after that: What is easier?
>>
>> 3&4 you shouldn’t worry about translating. Also if this is not translated it
>> isn’t a problem either. Microsoft doesn’t translate their BSOD to dutch.
>> This maybe be an incorrect comparison but it’s to give you an idea. FreeDOS
>> 1.0 had full language support, for my language but the date and time command
>> weren’t translated. What I want to say with this is, don’t worry about those
>> prompting and translating, it will be just fine! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Maarten
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: Sorry, Jerome this was meant to be on the list. So you have 2 of the
>> same mails. Sorry for that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's ok.
>>
>>
>>
>> Working on:
>> Bird OS 2017 1.0.0a (western screech-owl)
>> - netraa...@gmail.com
>> - birdos.2...@gmail.com
>> "why? Because Freedos, that's why!"
>>
>> Some Nice projects:
>> - Freedos
>> - Night DOS Kernel
>>
>>
>>
>> Van: Jerome E. Shidel Jr.
>> Verzonden: zaterdag 20 februari 2016 23:20
>> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
>> Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] FDI remaining issue
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Preview 13 testing is still underway. So far, I have not received any
>> reports of
>>
>> major bugs or serious hiccups. However, there is one serious issue that is
>> yet
>>
>> to be resolved to my satisfaction. The MBR issue. When incompatible boot
>> code
>>
>> already is present  or if the USB image is drive C: (targeting D:), post
>> install
>>
>> fails to boot. Since it shouldn’t blast existing boot code, I guess the
>> first situation
>>
>> is ok. However, the second is more tricky. Why is sys not updating the MBR?
>>
>> If you force it with /BOOT or other option, you will run into the first
>> problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I see it, there are 4 solutions.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Don’t worry about it. Let the user fix it.
>>
>> 2) Write a program to figure out drive letter and test MBR, Blank force new,
>> Exists leave it alone.
>>
>> 3) Like 2, except if it exists prompt user to blast it.
>>
>> 4) Don’t worry about it. But, always prompt user in advanced mode.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 1 easiest solution
>>
>>
>>
>> 2 & 3 are a bit of a pain and require figuring out what drive and partition
>> the kernel has assigned
>>
>> to a specific drive letter.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3 & 4 easy, but will require some more prompting and language translations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerome
>>
>> --
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell - and ReactOS 0.4

[Jayden Charbonneau]

I know GEM SHELL has something similar that we are talking
about.Also,windows 3.0 was a GUI shell for DOS,and it had its own
'applications' (Similiar to GEM).

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:52 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
wrote:

> Okay, that maybe is something. The last option will maybe too difficult.
> But I don’t know that because I didn’t research, yet.
>
> I will look for it.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
> *Van: *Eric Auer 
> *Verzonden: *donderdag 18 februari 2016 01:27
> *Aan: *Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> 
> *Onderwerp: *[Freedos-devel] GUI shell - and ReactOS 0.4
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Maarten,
>
>
>
> whether you want to make a GUI shell depends on how happy
>
> you are with the existing solutions. Also, it depends on
>
> whether you mainly want to make a file manager (various,
>
> at least free, sometimes open, solutions already exist)
>
> or something where you can run graphical apps. Louis and
>
> Jim already sent some pointers about the latter. If you
>
> would invent a new GUI for apps, almost no apps would be
>
> available for it, so it would not be very interesting...
>
>
>
> The same holds for Jose's suggestion to make resident GUI
>
> toolkit driver: Most apps simply use existing libraries,
>
> so there is no need to invent something new. However, it
>
> could be interesting to port frameworks (as has been done
>
> for FLTK, maybe SDL) to DOS, making it easier to port apps.
>
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/
>
>
>
> The current way to run SDL apps in DOS is to use HX RT:
>
> SDL only uses a relatively small list of Win API calls.
>
>
>
> You could also work on supporting a complete existing OS
>
> with all apps - this is what HX DOS Extender (limited DOS
>
> support for Windows apps), ReactOS and Wine are doing and
>
> supporting some of the OS/2 API might give fun as well.
>
>
>
> Note that your GUI would have nothing to do with FreeDOS
>
> in particular. It would simply be an generic DOS app :-)
>
>
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> PS: Related news: www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=14646
>
>
>
> On February 16, 2016, ReactOS 0.4.0 (alpha) was released.
>
>
>
> Changes: "A much requested feature for ReactOS was support for 16bit DOS
>
> applications. On Windows this support is provided by the NT Virtual DOS
>
> Machine (NTVDM) and the ReactOS implementation of it was first formally
>
> released in version 0.3.17. Needless to say since then the ReactOS NTVDM
>
> has seen considerable improvement to the point where many of the testers
>
> are sharing examples of old DOS games resurrected. And one of the
>
> biggest advantages to the way in which NTVDM is implemented in ReactOS
>
> is that support for it will continue on non IA-32 platforms, including
>
> AMD64 and even ARM."
>
>
>
> Website: https://www.reactos.org/
>
>
>
> Downloads: https://www.reactos.org/download
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] An idea ???

[Jayden Charbonneau]

If you are speaking of a 'standard' set of libraries,windows applications
use something similiar.Windows has a set of "Forms" and "Controls",which
ALL apps use (hence,making them windows applications).Windows itself places
a border,with different buttons on each application.The application can
then take this and modify it if needbe.A GUI for DOS that uses the same
concept would be very interesting to implement.With the added "Switching"
capability,it

A)Enables support for modern computational techniques

B)Leaves a door open to old,legacy software

VB.NET is a perfect example of this.Most apps are made with Microsoft
visual studio,and ALL apps use the same framework.I think doing this with
DOS wouldn't be such a bad idea.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 3:11 PM, G. Potthast 
wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> I used a different spreadsheet so far and that worked:
> http://nab.pcug.org.au/
>
> For my 64 bit Nanolinux distro I tried to add Teapot but did not get that
> to
> compile with FLTK 1.3.2. Teapot is written for FLTK 1.0.x and somehow will
> not work with 1.3.2. I spent quite some time but did not get it to work. I
> did not want to add the FLTK 1.0.x library just for that program.
>
> Georg
>
>
>
>
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