Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hello Robert, Robert Riebisch wrote: > > Hi Joseph, > > > On another note, I just corresponded with Sammy Mitchell of Semware. > > The Semware Editor (TSE) has gone into Freeware, and, he tells me that > > the DOS version will also eventually be freeware and open-source. > > Oh, that would be cool. > > > Whether the license is compatible remains to be seen, but, he’s going > > into a community-supported model. > > Whatever it means. > > > It’s great to see folks wanting to preserve this software, and, use it too. > > Indeed! > > Cheers, > Robert > -- > BTTR Software https://www.bttr-software.de/ > DOS ain't dead https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ Off-topic: It seems that bttr-software.de points to a blank Bitpalace server now. I wonder if you can still able to receive this mail. Regards, Roy ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi, On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 11:04 AM Jerome Shidel wrote: > > > On Oct 2, 2022, at 5:08 AM, tom ehlert wrote: > > [..] > > btw dowloading 900 MB .zip over a 4MB/s download link is a PITA; this > > alone should recommend a split. (Sorry, I'm horrible at trying to calculate such things, but I try anyways. Corrections welcome.) Is this "megabits"? So that would be 30 minutes, right? 4 Mbps = 0.5 MB per second. So 900 MB would be 1800 seconds ... right?? (Assuming no connection slowdowns.) > Imagine downloading it back when DOS was the main home user OS — over a fast > 56k modem. If you somehow managed to download load it without it erring or > timing out, the next OS release would probably be available when you finished. > > :-) 56 kbps = 7 kb per second, right? So 37 hours?? Seriously, in cases like that, you'd probably just download overnight while you're asleep (and nobody is using the phone). Obviously it's better to only download in pieces so you can verify (with checksum), and retry (if needed), only a small part instead of the whole thing. Some places (e.g. Britain) charge for *local* phone calls, right? So obviously it's more cost effective and easier to just order a physical CD (assuming you have a working drive) or IOMega ZIP disk or whatever. (Or somehow copy it from a friend's hard drive who has a faster connection.) Compression also helps (obviously) but should be done "solid" so that it's not only individually per file (and not in very small chunks like 32 kb Deflate). In other words, 7-Zip is overall superior to most things (in size and speed). (Or maybe RAR.) This also means avoiding redundant files and too many competing versions of the same thing. (Smartlinking helps. But modularity and dynamic libs are a whole other issue.) Actually, back in the day (1997), if you downloaded Allegro for DJGPP, they made you compile it yourself, which (on a slow 486) took 30 minutes. That GCC (2.7.2.1) was tons faster than later versions (even when the latter's optimizations were turned off), don't know why. Maybe it was the small cpu cache (used better by a smaller binary). There are many ways to be frugal in size and speed, but most developers don't have the interest anymore when "everyone" has 64-bit and gigs of RAM. Software is not cheap to develop. These days, hardware is much cheaper than software. ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
I started with a 1200 BAUD modem back in the early 90's. Even downloading a copy of DOS back then would have taken a real long time. Remember this commercial? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbUbRHRuyfs ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi, > On Oct 2, 2022, at 5:08 AM, tom ehlert wrote: > [..] > btw dowloading 900 MB .zip over a 4MB/s download link is a PITA; this > alone should recommend a split. > > Tom Imagine downloading it back when DOS was the main home user OS — over a fast 56k modem. If you somehow managed to download load it without it erring or timing out, the next OS release would probably be available when you finished. :-) Jerome ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
I recall using it when it was qedit, and in version 2, when rewritten to C, the speed increase was noticeable. Good times! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Remitente: Robert Riebisch <r...@bttr-software.de> Destinatario: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> Fecha: domingo, 16 de octubre de 2022, 20:45:02 Asunto: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210 Archivos: --===-- Hi Joseph, On another note, I just corresponded with Sammy Mitchell of Semware. The Semware Editor (TSE) has gone into Freeware, and, he tells me thatthe DOS version will also eventually be freeware and open-source. Oh, that would be cool. Whether the license is compatible remains to be seen, but, he’s goinginto a community-supported model. Whatever it means. It’s great to see folks wanting to preserve this software, and, use it too. Indeed! Cheers, Robert -- BTTR Software https://www.bttr-software.de/DOS ain't dead https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ ___Freedos-devel mailing listFreedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi Joseph, > On another note, I just corresponded with Sammy Mitchell of Semware. > The Semware Editor (TSE) has gone into Freeware, and, he tells me that > the DOS version will also eventually be freeware and open-source. Oh, that would be cool. > Whether the license is compatible remains to be seen, but, he’s going > into a community-supported model. Whatever it means. > It’s great to see folks wanting to preserve this software, and, use it too. Indeed! Cheers, Robert -- BTTR Software https://www.bttr-software.de/ DOS ain't dead https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi: This is sort of a quandary. If you’re trying to keep the media compatible with older systems (with only a cd-rom drive), the Development CD idea may be the right thing. On the other hand, I don’t mind the concept of a DVD, providing FreeDOS’ tools can handle it, as I have no older hardware. But, there are still many people who have the room and skills to keep that old hardware running, and, it wouldn’t be fair to leave them out, so, I’m leaning to the 3 CD approach. Of course, how long will it be before it gets to there needing to be 4 CD’s and such. It’s mind-boggling to see just how much stuff for DOS is still around and in development. On another note, I just corresponded with Sammy Mitchell of Semware. The Semware Editor (TSE) has gone into Freeware, and, he tells me that the DOS version will also eventually be freeware and open-source. Whether the license is compatible remains to be seen, but, he’s going into a community-supported model. It’s great to see folks wanting to preserve this software, and, use it too. Cheers! Sent from Mail for Windows From: Jerome ShidelSent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 10:49 AMTo: developers FreeDOSSubject: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210 Hello All, I’ve just uploaded this months Interim Build to ibiblio. To test T2210, you can fetch it from http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/test/ I’ve warned about this several times. But with the recent updates and few additions to the DJGPP packages, the BonusCD has blown way past the upper limits of a CD. At approximately 925mb, it will require a DVD to burn the image to disc. I don’t think a 925mb “CD” is a good thing. As I see it, this leaves us with 3 choices: 1) Drop nearly 300mb of packages from the CD.2) Do nothing and call it a DVD3) Move all development related packages onto their own disc. Have DevelCD and seperate BonusCD. Let’s try and resolve this before the next build. :-) Also, this latest build mostly consists of some NLS updates, a few updates (like vmsmount, v8power and keyb) and of course the DJGPP stuff. :-) Jerome ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi, I played a little with fdav yesterday and found out the following things (in case that you want to keep it in FD distribution): a) fdav seems to be necessary at all, otherwise the space is wasted, it can be used with GUI and commandline, b) the latest usable clamav virus definition is main.cvd, version 54, published: 11 Oct. 2011, size: 30.750.647 Byte. It only works without a daily definition! (the version 51 at ibiblio does) I also tested version 55 and 56 they even did not work with 2 GB RAM on a 2 GB HD with 1,3 GB free space! You can download it at: https://web.archive.org/web/20120924070230/http://www.clamav.net/lang/en/ GNU / GPL? No idea, but this was the same problem with the older version at ibiblio. So it seems that the maximum .cvd size seems to be anywhere at 30 MB, no idea why. c) recommended RAM: ca. 128 MB (worked not with 96 MB but with 104 MB) d) recommended free space on HD: in about 3 x 30 MB, I recommend more, the tmp files are stored at: C:\freedos\temp e) How to test if it works: Add bonus CD and let it check for viruses, it finds a "virus" at d:\packages\util\clamav.zip with name: "Phishing.Heuristics.Email.SSL-Spoof". f) I am not sure, but it maybe that it is not recommended to have more xy.cvd files with other versions in the folder. At least it did not work at all when I tested. g) You can find creation date and version number at the header of the .cvd files. For more information see: https://sites.google.com/site/blairdude/fdav Willi Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2022 at 4:59 PM From: "Wilhelm Spiegl" To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210 Hi, a simple idea how to save 27 MB of files: I just tested the latest FD2210, c:\util\clamav, alltogether: 27.039.846 Bytes. There is a main.cvd (21.253.696 Byte) and a daily.cvd (2.517.688) together with some .exe files and some "xy.1" files with ending "1". So far ok. Clamconf.exe exits with an error message: LibClamAV Warning: Cannot dlopen libclamunrar_iface: file not found - unrar support unavailable. Optional features supported: AUTOIT_EA06 BZIP2 RAR Database directory: /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib Clamdtop exits with an error message: Cant parse clamd configuration file /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib/clamd.conf Abnormal program termination: Invalid command-line arguments in setup at line 1144 Clamscan runs through within 1 second with no found viruses and the following message: LibClamAV Warning: Cannot dlopen libclamunrar_iface: file not found - unrar support unavailable LibClamAV Error: cl_load(): Cant get status of /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib ERROR: Cant get file status. Freshcla.exe exits with the error message: ERROR: Cant open/parse the config file /dev/enu/DOSDIR/lib/clamav.cnf Sigtool offers the whole options - that`s all. So I was unable to make this 28 MB of files work. At: ibiblio at https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/system/clamav/ there is a file fdavx.zip (2010-02-222). If you insert the files fdav.exe and fdav.hlp in the folder C:\util\clamav and start it in virtualbox (FD Anti-Virus 0.2.2 - keep in mind that you need a lot of RAM for the virus database!!!) you get a GUI that says: "Loading the virus database, then you have to wait a while - and if you have enough RAM it starts with searching for viruses. I first used 32 MB of RAM and waited more than 10 minutes for start, then I gave up. With 96 MB RAM "Loading the virus database" was done within a minute. Then "Scanning" runs and shows a progress bar. As there is no virus within my virtual machine I cannot check if it really works, but after in about 15 minutes it exits without any error messages (no message box) with an information what the second option would do. So I think it would make sense to add "fdav.exe" in this folder or to remove it completely. One more thing: I found this in Tree 3.7.2 history: History for FreeDOS tree. 03 September 2002 Tree 3.7.2 - Jeremy Davis Added German translation (tree.de) thanks to Achim Sondermann. 16 October 2001 Tree 3.7.1 - Jim Hall added getopt.c, getopt.h to support better command line parsing modified tree.c to add getopt.c created tree.mak, to replace cmplall.bat (didn't delete cmplall.bat) 07 July 2001 Tree 3.7 - Jeremy Davis Reorganized files to better match required format for FreeDOS dist Added back Serial # support (that also works in WinNT DOS box) Added Pacific C and Digital Mars [Symantec] support Added /DA and /DS to display attributes and file sizes respectively Feb 2001 Tree 3.6.1 Aitor Santamaria Merino reviewed and updated Spanish message catalog (tree.es). No source changes. Tree.com 3.7. and 3.7.2 have the same hash value whereas tree 3.7.1 from Jim Hall has a different one and
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hi, a simple idea how to save 27 MB of files: I just tested the latest FD2210, c:\util\clamav, alltogether: 27.039.846 Bytes. There is a main.cvd (21.253.696 Byte) and a daily.cvd (2.517.688) together with some .exe files and some "xy.1" files with ending "1". So far ok. Clamconf.exe exits with an error message: LibClamAV Warning: Cannot dlopen libclamunrar_iface: file not found - unrar support unavailable. Optional features supported: AUTOIT_EA06 BZIP2 RAR Database directory: /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib Clamdtop exits with an error message: Cant parse clamd configuration file /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib/clamd.conf Abnormal program termination: Invalid command-line arguments in setup at line 1144 Clamscan runs through within 1 second with no found viruses and the following message: LibClamAV Warning: Cannot dlopen libclamunrar_iface: file not found - unrar support unavailable LibClamAV Error: cl_load(): Cant get status of /dev/env/DOSDIR/lib ERROR: Cant get file status. Freshcla.exe exits with the error message: ERROR: Cant open/parse the config file /dev/enu/DOSDIR/lib/clamav.cnf Sigtool offers the whole options - that`s all. So I was unable to make this 28 MB of files work. At: ibiblio at https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/system/clamav/ there is a file fdavx.zip (2010-02-222). If you insert the files fdav.exe and fdav.hlp in the folder C:\util\clamav and start it in virtualbox (FD Anti-Virus 0.2.2 - keep in mind that you need a lot of RAM for the virus database!!!) you get a GUI that says: "Loading the virus database, then you have to wait a while - and if you have enough RAM it starts with searching for viruses. I first used 32 MB of RAM and waited more than 10 minutes for start, then I gave up. With 96 MB RAM "Loading the virus database" was done within a minute. Then "Scanning" runs and shows a progress bar. As there is no virus within my virtual machine I cannot check if it really works, but after in about 15 minutes it exits without any error messages (no message box) with an information what the second option would do. So I think it would make sense to add "fdav.exe" in this folder or to remove it completely. One more thing: I found this in Tree 3.7.2 history: History for FreeDOS tree. 03 September 2002 Tree 3.7.2 - Jeremy Davis Added German translation (tree.de) thanks to Achim Sondermann. 16 October 2001 Tree 3.7.1 - Jim Hall added getopt.c, getopt.h to support better command line parsing modified tree.c to add getopt.c created tree.mak, to replace cmplall.bat (didn't delete cmplall.bat) 07 July 2001 Tree 3.7 - Jeremy Davis Reorganized files to better match required format for FreeDOS dist Added back Serial # support (that also works in WinNT DOS box) Added Pacific C and Digital Mars [Symantec] support Added /DA and /DS to display attributes and file sizes respectively Feb 2001 Tree 3.6.1 Aitor Santamaria Merino reviewed and updated Spanish message catalog (tree.es). No source changes. Tree.com 3.7. and 3.7.2 have the same hash value whereas tree 3.7.1 from Jim Hall has a different one and 15.664 Bytes, created: 2001-10-16, so I am not sure which is the newer one. I just tested FD 2210 - they use tree.com with 9.893 Byte, same as 3.7 and 3.7.2 Could someone check and if necessary, correct this as the newer version number is irritating? Thx Willi Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2022 at 11:08 AM From: "tom ehlert" To: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210 > I’ve just uploaded this months Interim Build to ibiblio. To test > T2210, you can fetch it from > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/test/ > I’ve warned about this several times. But with the recent updates > and few additions to the DJGPP packages, the BonusCD has blown way > past the upper limits of a CD. At approximately 925mb, it will > require a DVD to burn the image to disc. > I don’t think a 925mb “CD” is a good thing. > As I see it, this leaves us with 3 choices: > 1) Drop nearly 300mb of packages from the CD. > 2) Do nothing and call it a DVD > 3) Move all development related packages onto their own disc. Have DevelCD and seperate BonusCD. 4) Split it into 2 CD's. it's a BONUS CD, to be used after install anyway. btw dowloading 900 MB .zip over a 4MB/s download link is a PITA; this alone should recommend a split. Tom ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
> I’ve just uploaded this months Interim Build to ibiblio. To test > T2210, you can fetch it from > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/test/ > I’ve warned about this several times. But with the recent updates > and few additions to the DJGPP packages, the BonusCD has blown way > past the upper limits of a CD. At approximately 925mb, it will > require a DVD to burn the image to disc. > I don’t think a 925mb “CD” is a good thing. > As I see it, this leaves us with 3 choices: > 1) Drop nearly 300mb of packages from the CD. > 2) Do nothing and call it a DVD > 3) Move all development related packages onto their own disc. Have DevelCD > and seperate BonusCD. 4) Split it into 2 CD's. it's a BONUS CD, to be used after install anyway. btw dowloading 900 MB .zip over a 4MB/s download link is a PITA; this alone should recommend a split. Tom ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
On Sat, 1 Oct 2022, 16:49 Jerome Shidel, wrote: > > As I see it, this leaves us with 3 choices: > > 1) Drop nearly 300mb of packages from the CD. > 2) Do nothing and call it a DVD > 3) Move all development related packages onto their own disc. Have DevelCD > and seperate BonusCD. > In my view, at some point, FreeDOS should recognize that it is only an OS distribution. It does not befall the task of providing the user with all programs possibly available for the OS. Therefore, in my opinion, option 1 is the most sensible solution. ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS Interim Build T2210
Hello, On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 at 16:49, Jerome Shidel wrote: > As I see it, this leaves us with 3 choices: > > 1) Drop nearly 300mb of packages from the CD. > 2) Do nothing and call it a DVD > 3) Move all development related packages onto their own disc. Have DevelCD > and seperate BonusCD. > >From the three, in my opinion (3) is the more sensible: make a difference between user-oriented distribution and developer-oriented distribution (so don't call it BonusCD but "Developer's edition" or something similar. Aitor ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
