Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello,

> On Jan 7, 2022, at 7:12 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Jerome,
> 
>> Boot to standard US English Codepage.
> 
> Changed the codepage to 437, verified with broken Turkish display characters.
> 
>> Then run them through the conversion program (mkvV8Font). You will see that 
>> some characters in the normal codepage are aligned differently. You will 
>> want to tell it to include those in the new font as well (Press Y). If you 
>> tell the program to try auto mode, I don’t recall if it will auto-accept 
>> different alignment. It’s been a while since I through that program together.
> 
> Run the CP857.FNT font file through the program (just gave the file name as 
> argument), manually approved all characters with “y”, it told me that it 
> saved all the characters. I see that there is a file named .V8F is saved, 
> renamed it to CP857.V8F.
> 
> On another note, all characters baseline seemed to be the same.
> 
>> Once, you created the V8F file. While still Using the English codepage, load 
>> it using vfont and just set LANG=TR. The run"PKGINFO /d /p” to output a 
>> bunch of text and verify it looks correct. 
> 
> It says: “Invalid font file format”.
> 
> Did I do something wrong?

Hmmm, it is possibly a bug in the conversion program. It was thrown together 
very quickly and only has been used a couple times. 

So, did you approve all 256 characters or just the alpha-numeric ones? If it 
was just yes to everything, the program might have had issues generating the 
V8F file. 

Did you make any character changes? If so, send me a set and change them over. 
If not, I’ll just convert the existing version I have again. Making sure to 
include all alphabet characters. Not just the language changed/new ones.

Jerome



> 
> Best regards,
> Emir (ఽ఺఍)
> 
>  ** E-mail needs to stay simple
>  ** Use plain text e-mail
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello Jerome,

> Boot to standard US English Codepage.

Changed the codepage to 437, verified with broken Turkish display characters.

> Then run them through the conversion program (mkvV8Font). You will see that 
> some characters in the normal codepage are aligned differently. You will want 
> to tell it to include those in the new font as well (Press Y). If you tell 
> the program to try auto mode, I don’t recall if it will auto-accept different 
> alignment. It’s been a while since I through that program together.

Run the CP857.FNT font file through the program (just gave the file name as 
argument), manually approved all characters with “y”, it told me that it saved 
all the characters. I see that there is a file named .V8F is saved, renamed it 
to CP857.V8F.

On another note, all characters baseline seemed to be the same.

> Once, you created the V8F file. While still Using the English codepage, load 
> it using vfont and just set LANG=TR. The run"PKGINFO /d /p” to output a bunch 
> of text and verify it looks correct. 

It says: “Invalid font file format”.

Did I do something wrong?

Best regards,
Emir (ఽ఺఍)

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  ** Use plain text e-mail

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello Emir,

> On Jan 6, 2022, at 3:32 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Jerome,
> 
>> Let me know if you run into any problems or have any questions.
> 
> I’ve tested the Turkish characters file with imgedit. As far as I can see, 
> the glyph ascenders and descenders for Turkish-specific characters are 
> in-line with the other standard characters. Is there something that I’m 
> missing?

Probably not.

Boot to standard US English Codepage.

Then run them through the conversion program (mkvV8Font). You will see that 
some characters in the normal codepage are aligned differently. You will want 
to tell it to include those in the new font as well (Press Y). If you tell the 
program to try auto mode, I don’t recall if it will auto-accept different 
alignment. It’s been a while since I through that program together.

Once, you created the V8F file. While still Using the English codepage, load it 
using vfont and just set LANG=TR. The run"PKGINFO /d /p” to output a bunch of 
text and verify it looks correct. 

:-)

Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello Jerome,

> Let me know if you run into any problems or have any questions.

I’ve tested the Turkish characters file with imgedit. As far as I can see, the 
glyph ascenders and descenders for Turkish-specific characters are in-line with 
the other standard characters. Is there something that I’m missing?

Thanks in advance.
Emir

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello Jerome,

> 2 янв. 2022 г., в 23:32, Jerome Shidel  написал(а):
> 
> Hi Emir,
> 
> Since I haven’t got around to making a doc for creating the V8F font files, 
> here is the easiest way…

> Anyhow, it’s not hard to do. :-)
> 
> Let me know if you run into any problems or have any questions.

I will be able to test and report back in a few days.

Thank you for the detailed instructions.

Best,
Emir 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

Hi Emir,

Since I haven’t got around to making a doc for creating the V8F font files, 
here is the easiest way…

For Turkish, make sure you have a copy of the raw font from FD-NLS. 

https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/blob/master/fdi/language/CP857.FNT 


And get a copy of mkV8Font.exe from 
https://github.com/shidel/makeV8Font/blob/master/MKV8FONT.EXE 


You will also need ImgEdit and V8Power Tools. These are both installed in RC5 
with FULL. However, 
you can also retrieve them from:

https://fd.lod.bz/repos/current/pkg-html/imgedit.html 

https://fd.lod.bz/repos/current/pkg-html/v8power.html 


You may want to do this in DOSBox. it is easier to copy things in and out.

Once you have all you need…

The edit the font using ImgEdit. Other editors may work. But, IDK. 

run:imgedit cp857.fnt
make any changes and save the file.

use:vfont cp857.fnt
Temporarily loads the font so you can test it.  

when your satisfied. 
run: mkv8fnt cp857.fnt

It will ask examine the default characters and compare them to your font. 
(y/yes means use my char, n/no means use the default).
You probably don’t want auto mode and let it use the defaults for unchanged 
characters. 
Once done it will create a V8F font file. 

you should reset your text mode to load the default character set. 
you can use: vmode 3

now test the V8F file
run cp857.v8f

Anyhow, it’s not hard to do. :-)

Let me know if you run into any problems or have any questions.

:-)

Jerome



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[thraex]

On 31.12.2021 15:32, Jerome Shidel wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2021, at 5:03 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and
>> have some questions below.
>>
>> Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have
>> used qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive
>> file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive
>> file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions
>> for improving the speed are welcome.

I have the same problem with AQEMU, it's really slow compared to
VirtualBox (and I couldn't get the network to work) and the mouse
pointer moves very fast, it's hard to control. But it has PC speaker
emulation that VirtualBox seems to lack, which is nice.

My command line parameters are:
/usr/bin/qemu-system-x86_64 \
-monitor stdio \
-soundhw pcspk \
-k fr \
-machine accel=kvm \
-m 128 \
-cdrom /home/tizizi/DEV0LIVE.iso \
-hda /home/tizizi/.aqemu/RC5_HDA.img \
-boot order=adc,menu=on \
-net nic \
-net user \
-rtc base=localtime \
-name "RC5"

> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM
> is really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each
> line. I think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related.
> You really want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his
> invocation of QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be
> longer than "War and Piece". 
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/36905969/
> 

On Ubuntu 20.04.3, I'm getting

$ qemu-system-i386 -name FreeDOS -machine
pc-i440fx-4.1,accel=kvm,usb=off,dump-guest-core=off -cpu host -m 64
-overcommit mem-lock=off -no-user-config -nodefaults -rtc
base=utc,driftfix=slew -no-hpet -boot menu=on,strict=on -device qxl-vga
-display sdl -device sb16 -device adlib -hda /home/tizizi/freedos.img
-cdrom /home/tizizi/DEV0LIVE.iso -sandbox
on,obsolete=deny,elevateprivileges=deny,spawn=deny,resourcecontrol=deny
-msg timestamp=on
2021-12-31T13:52:11.070315Z qemu-system-i386: Display 'sdl' is not
available.

when I use Jim's invocation, of which I barely understood less than half
of the switches... So VirtualBox it is, for now.

>> I would appreciate any help (especially Jerome and thraex) :). I see
>> that thraex already made some corrections (thank you!).

You're welcome. If I can be useful in anyway regarding translations,
feel free to send an e-mail. In all cases, I'll keep an eye on this list.

> No problem. :-)
> 
> thraex has done a great job translating. He has also probably learned
> more about GitHub, The Installer and V8Power Tools than he every thought
> possible (or every wanted to either). :-)

:-)


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

> 
>> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
>> really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I 
>> think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really 
>> want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of 
>> QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and 
>> Piece". 
> 
> Thanks for the link! Some of the commands seem deprecated or removed, but 
> I’ll try to research on this, and being on macOS, KVM acceleration is not 
> present I believe. But, thanks.

Your welcome.

If your on an Intel based Mac, I recommend using VirtualBox. It’s free, fairly 
easy to use and works well enough. 

Although, if you scale the display to something other than %100, it can be 
sluggish. But, that probably has a lot to do with the model of Mac and it’s 
video card.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello again,

> While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
> really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I 
> think most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really 
> want to enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of 
> QEMU a couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and 
> Piece". 

Thanks for the link! Some of the commands seem deprecated or removed, but I’ll 
try to research on this, and being on macOS, KVM acceleration is not present I 
believe. But, thanks.

> I need to make a doc file on “how to make those v8f files”.

I do draw vector fonts, and I believe I can make some nicer bitmap ones as 
well. Please let me know once you are ready to publish info, I’ll have a look.

> I didn’t see any failure messages in the video. 
> 
> But, if you mean just in general… There are only two. One for normal mode and 
> one for advanced mode. 
> See the section starting at line 113 in the english version. 
> https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/blob/6fe293d50feeb938de3bd8c8c700a53740f2d652/fdi/language/en/FDSETUP.DEF#L113
>  
> 
Thanks, I’ve realised that some failure messages (a couple of lines below would 
not fit properly. Modified as needed.

> First, the installer files can not be in UTF format. 
> 
> Also, Do not modify and submit updated versions of the files on the install 
> media. Most files of the installer files on the install media undergo a 
> little or a lot of modification by the release build environment (RBE). 
> Consider those files compiled executables. Changes need to be made at the 
> source level. 

Understood.

> If I understand what you are asking….
> 
> There are two separate systems in the installer regarding keyboard settings. 
> The first is the Main selection screen. The installer attempts to pre-select 
> the one matching the users language. The number of keyboard selections 
> matches the number of languages the installer itself supports. 
> 
> The second system is slower but allows any number of additional keyboard 
> choices. 
> 
> When looking at the keyboard sources, the distinction is a little clearer. 
> 
> If the installer was an EXE, it would use only one system for selecting 
> keyboards. However being batch based, breaking it into two pieces yields 
> better performance and overall works better.

No, what I meant was purely semantics. For instance, for Brazilian Portuguese, 
it just says Brazil. The same for Denmark, instead of Danish. For French, there 
is a French, and there is French (alternative). I presume one is the AZERTY 
layout, but I am not sure which, that sort of thing. I can just go ahead and 
fix for Turkish, but the others will stand out.

> Although there are translations for FDI-x86, no means is provided at present 
> to automatically change languages. It will be added eventually. But, it is a 
> low priority for me. In the meantime, it can be done manually. 

Ah, okay then. Fair enough.

Best,
Emir

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello,

> On Dec 31, 2021, at 5:03 AM, Emir SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and have 
> some questions below.
> 
> Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have used 
> qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive 
> file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions for 
> improving the speed are welcome.

While the installer (FDI) is not fast, the main issue is your whole VM is 
really slow. I could even see the initial boot menu drawing each line. I think 
most of the “slowness” your experiencing is video related. You really want to 
enable some sort of acceleration. Jim has shared his invocation of QEMU a 
couple times. I think the command line may be longer than "War and Piece". 

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/36905969/ 


> I am also attaching the videos of my installation[1]. I understand that 
> letters with accents and diacritics might shift a little bit, but the Turkish 
> letter ı also seems to shift. It would be nice to improve this a bit.

Yep, it could use a better Turkish font. 

The installer itself needs to repeatedly change fonts and does not use the 
codepage system. It uses vfont and V8F (vfont font files) to accomplish that. 
The V8F files contain only the subset of characters that need to be changed 
from the default character set. That can include the standard ASCII characters 
or not. vfont can load normal FNT files (like those in the GNUFONTS package). 
But, for the installer (and limited space on floppies) it uses the V8F format 
files to cut the size in half or greater. 

I need to make a doc file on “how to make those v8f files”.

Anyhow, that is all maintained at 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/tree/master/fdi/language 


> There is also a small visual glitch before changing the installer language 
> into Turkish (see the video).

Since the installer does not clear the screen it will always be there. 
That mostly goes away with faster video and looks better than everything 
vanishing and reappearing. 

> 
> I will send a patch once I have improved the needed areas.
> 
> Whilst checking, I have noticed that I am not sure about how all the failure 
> messages are handled, I could not find the frame width for it. I guess they 
> are displayed full screen. If so, please ignore.

I didn’t see any failure messages in the video. 

But, if you mean just in general… There are only two. One for normal mode and 
one for advanced mode. 
See the section starting at line 113 in the english version. 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/blob/6fe293d50feeb938de3bd8c8c700a53740f2d652/fdi/language/en/FDSETUP.DEF#L113
 


> 
> There is another issue with the keyboard layout name definition files. I 
> would like to make some corrections, like some countries are defined by their 
> names instead of the language name (e. g. Brazil, Holland, Denmark etc.). 
> Also some layouts are not clear, like which French is the AZERTY one? I want 
> to proceed with the changes but I am not sure how to handle the encoding. I 
> can modify them to UTF-8, and make corrections in all languages, would that 
> be okay? I think we can change all languages before the release. I can 
> proofread Turkish and Russian and send a public patch for everyone to see 
> after changing the languages.

First, the installer files can not be in UTF format. 

Also, Do not modify and submit updated versions of the files on the install 
media. Most files of the installer files on the install media undergo a little 
or a lot of modification by the release build environment (RBE). Consider those 
files compiled executables. Changes need to be made at the source level. 

If I understand what you are asking….

There are two separate systems in the installer regarding keyboard settings. 
The first is the Main selection screen. The installer attempts to pre-select 
the one matching the users language. The number of keyboard selections matches 
the number of languages the installer itself supports. 

The second system is slower but allows any number of additional keyboard 
choices. 

When looking at the keyboard sources, the distinction is a little clearer. 

If the installer was an EXE, it would use only one system for selecting 
keyboards. However being batch based, breaking it into two pieces yields better 
performance and overall works better.

> 
> Also, it was a while ago, but I was also able to start the Jerome’s new 
> installer in Turkish. How to start that and from where? I would like to test 
> that one as well.

New installer? Do you mean the FloppyEdition installer (FDI-x86)?

Although there are translations for 

[Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello everyone,

I have been making the final tests for the installer in Turkish, and have some 
questions below.

Also, the installation process seems to be pretty slow on QEMU. I have used 
qemu-system-i386 -m 32m -drive file=drivec.img,media=disk,format=raw -drive 
file=FD13LIVE.iso,media=cdrom -boot order=d command. Any suggestions for 
improving the speed are welcome.

I am also attaching the videos of my installation[1]. I understand that letters 
with accents and diacritics might shift a little bit, but the Turkish letter ı 
also seems to shift. It would be nice to improve this a bit. There is also a 
small visual glitch before changing the installer language into Turkish (see 
the video).

I will send a patch once I have improved the needed areas.

Whilst checking, I have noticed that I am not sure about how all the failure 
messages are handled, I could not find the frame width for it. I guess they are 
displayed full screen. If so, please ignore.

There is another issue with the keyboard layout name definition files. I would 
like to make some corrections, like some countries are defined by their names 
instead of the language name (e. g. Brazil, Holland, Denmark etc.). Also some 
layouts are not clear, like which French is the AZERTY one? I want to proceed 
with the changes but I am not sure how to handle the encoding. I can modify 
them to UTF-8, and make corrections in all languages, would that be okay? I 
think we can change all languages before the release. I can proofread Turkish 
and Russian and send a public patch for everyone to see after changing the 
languages.

Also, it was a while ago, but I was also able to start the Jerome’s new 
installer in Turkish. How to start that and from where? I would like to test 
that one as well.

I would appreciate any help (especially Jerome and thraex) :). I see that 
thraex already made some corrections (thank you!).

Once the issues are resolved, I will send a patch.

Happy new year to everyone!
Best regards,
Emir

[1] 
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/4aa0a35db5a58a794c82a588448bb11f20211231093146/527256527e415ca82339a3073feea36820211231093235/4b975c


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