Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Abe Mishler  wrote:
>
> On 6/28/2016 7:55 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
>>
>> I would recommend you (also) test under QEMU if you're that worried or
>> want (potentially) better stability.
>>
> QEMU, while about 10x slower (on Win 8.1 amd64 host), ran perfectly.
> Thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps there are some optimizations that
> I don't know about...

Not sure about improving speed, esp. on Windows. There used to be
kqemu for older versions (0.9.0?), but that's been discontinued.

Anyways, VBox itself is allegedly partially based upon QEMU, but it's
not true that QEMU is always slower. At least one thing I was running
was faster under QEMU (+ Linux) than VBox (+ Win7), even without VT-X.
But that could be because of many different reasons. Using VT-X (which
for QEMU means using KVM variant instead) obviously increases speed
even further.

But nothing beats running natively (on real hardware).

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Abe Mishler]

On 6/28/2016 7:55 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Abe Mishler  wrote:
>>
>> Strange, right? And not just on one computer, but three separate ones; each
>> running different hardware and software (host OS). Although I would expect
>> that the underlying differences are abstracted away by VirtualBox.
>
> It's not really that strange. EMS is rarely used nowadays, and DOS (in
> all its billions of setups) isn't highly tested by emulators. Their
> focus is on other, more popular, guests.
>
> It's impossible (or maybe unprofitable) to test every emulator under
> the sun (dozens!), plus having to work around all the bugs and missing
> features. Some OSes present bigger problems than others (OS/2,
> OpenBSD), even requiring VT-X compatible hardware.
>
> I would recommend you (also) test under QEMU if you're that worried or
> want (potentially) better stability. At least Windows (32-bit or
> 64-bit) binaries are easily available below (not to mention that QEMU
> runs on various other host OSes too, e.g. Linux):
>
> http://qemu.weilnetz.de/
>
QEMU, while about 10x slower (on Win 8.1 amd64 host), ran perfectly. 
Thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps there are some optimizations that 
I don't know about...

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Ulrich Hansen]

> Am 29.06.2016 um 13:08 schrieb Don Flowers :
> 
> The only drivers that work for this is Ulrich's FreeDOS 1.0 drivers Himem.exe 
> and "EMM386.EXE NOEMS"

Before someone gets it wrong: The drivers were written by Tom Ehlert, Michael 
Devore and other fine people. Thanks!



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Don Flowers]

I use Novell  Personal Netware for networking with a dedicated server plus
each of 4 other machines acting in SERVER/CLIENT mode

The only drivers that work for this is Ulrich's FreeDOS 1.0 drivers
Himem.exe and "EMM386.EXE NOEMS" (no other switch is necessary). I load DOS
HIGH, UMB.

This gives me between 689 & 717 conventional and 44-46 UMB depending on the
machine. CTMOUSE doesn't like some of my programs so I use a  Logitech
Mouse driver which utilizes high memory on its own. After PNW gets loaded,
I end up with 444-456 conventional with 4k left in UMB plus a reserve EMS
which gets managed by PNW and it own DPMS driver.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 6:09 AM, Ulrich Hansen  wrote:

> Am 28.06.2016 um 22:55 schrieb Abe Mishler :
>
> >> is pretty unstable, at least for me.
> > It seems like you should be excluding a different region of memory. From
> your screenshot: E300-EDFF.
>
> The packet driver works, but FDAPM is still crashing when I exclude
> E300-EDFF.
>
> >> But the default line didn’t work for you at all. Hmm.
> > Strange, right? And not just on one computer, but three separate ones;
> each running different hardware and software (host OS). Although I would
> expect that the underlying differences are abstracted away by VirtualBox.
>
> I created the VirtualBox „FreeDOS 1.1.net" image in February. Immediately
> five people complained (very politely) about crashes. No boot menu option
> worked that included JEMMEX or JEMM386.
>
> As temporary fix, I replaced JEMMEX with the obsolete HIMEM.EXE and
> EMM386.EXE from FreeDOS 1.0. There has been no complaint since. (The
> "FreeDOS 1.1net" VirtualBox image has been downloaded 815 times in 2016).
>
>
> > Am 29.06.2016 um 00:24 schrieb Eric Auer :
> >
> > To explain the different memory types:
>
> Thank you! Clears things up and refreshes the memory. This should be part
> of the FreeDOS wiki. Reminds me of the time, when I was reading the MS-DOS
> 5.0 manual in 1992. Got my first computer the day before and intended to
> read the manual first. So I sat on a river bench and read about optimizing
> the use of UMBs. :-)
>
> > UMB - provided by EMM386 - lets you load various drivers
> >  high, can also be provided by UMBPCI or other hardware
> >  drivers, can cause stability issues in conflict cases
>
> This is the reason I want some EMM. For DOS networking I need to load
> drivers, especially for MS Client.
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.1 crashing in VirtualBox 5.0.22

[Ulrich Hansen]

Am 28.06.2016 um 22:55 schrieb Abe Mishler :

>> is pretty unstable, at least for me.
> It seems like you should be excluding a different region of memory. From your 
> screenshot: E300-EDFF.

The packet driver works, but FDAPM is still crashing when I exclude E300-EDFF.  

>> But the default line didn’t work for you at all. Hmm.
> Strange, right? And not just on one computer, but three separate ones; each 
> running different hardware and software (host OS). Although I would expect 
> that the underlying differences are abstracted away by VirtualBox.

I created the VirtualBox „FreeDOS 1.1.net" image in February. Immediately five 
people complained (very politely) about crashes. No boot menu option worked 
that included JEMMEX or JEMM386.

As temporary fix, I replaced JEMMEX with the obsolete HIMEM.EXE and EMM386.EXE 
from FreeDOS 1.0. There has been no complaint since. (The "FreeDOS 1.1net" 
VirtualBox image has been downloaded 815 times in 2016). 


> Am 29.06.2016 um 00:24 schrieb Eric Auer :
> 
> To explain the different memory types:

Thank you! Clears things up and refreshes the memory. This should be part of 
the FreeDOS wiki. Reminds me of the time, when I was reading the MS-DOS 5.0 
manual in 1992. Got my first computer the day before and intended to read the 
manual first. So I sat on a river bench and read about optimizing the use of 
UMBs. :-)

> UMB - provided by EMM386 - lets you load various drivers
>  high, can also be provided by UMBPCI or other hardware
>  drivers, can cause stability issues in conflict cases

This is the reason I want some EMM. For DOS networking I need to load drivers, 
especially for MS Client.
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