Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 6:40 PM, Jim Hall wrote: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:12 PM, dmccunney wrote: > [..] >> Having it available under a compatible open source license will let >> Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS. >> >> Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do* >> with FreeDOS, which may be more important. > > I agree! > > My view is "Ask, and they might do it." And "If you don't ask, they won't." Yep. > The ideal is that vendors might release the source code under a > Free/open source software license, like the GNU GPL. That would be > great! Better still if they would release under a BSD or MIT license. > But some vendors might not be able to release the source code. Maybe > there are legal restrictions, based on licensing agreements > (libraries, etc) and it would be too much work for them to go through > the legal clearance process to release the source code to a classic > DOS program. In this case, I'd be happy if they re-released the > software as free (gratis). Yes again. Source for applications of any size will likely not be entirely written in house by the vendor, but will have come from other sources and were licensed to the vendor. The vendor of the final product may well not have the rights to release all the source. Consider Star Office, which became the base for Open Office and Libre Office. Sun bought Star Office GMBH, the original vendor. They decided to make it open source. One of the components of Star Office was a database. The one issued with Star Office was a version of Adabas from Software AG. Star Office's license for Adabas allowed them to release binaries as freeware, but did *not* allow them to release source. Sun replaced Adabas with a Base module that was actually written in Java which they did control. You had to have a current JRE installed along with OO/LO to be able to *use* Base. (OO/LO would *install* without a JRE present, but would throw errors if you tried to *use* Base without a JRE installed.) And all open source licenses are not equal. One development I follow is Toybox. Toybox is an effort by Rob Landley. He was the former maintainer of Busybox. Toybox is an improved Busybox equivalent. The initial target for Toybox is Android, and several contributors to Toybox are Google Android developers, because they use Toybox internally. Rob cannot accept contributions licensed under the GPL. There are too many strings attached to using the GPL. (And GPLv2 and GPLv3 are not compatible with each other!) My irony meter has pegged off scale more than once when two *open source* projects cannot share code because the licenses are incompatible. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:12 PM, dmccunney wrote: [..] > If Jim can convince Corel to offer source uinder a license that will > let him add it the the FreeDOS distribution, I'll be surprised and > delighted. > > If anyone actually grabs that source, and uploads new and improved > versions incorporating changes they made to the source, I'll be > astonished. > > Having it available under a compatible open source license will let > Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS. > > Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do* > with FreeDOS, which may be more important. I agree! My view is "Ask, and they might do it." And "If you don't ask, they won't." The ideal is that vendors might release the source code under a Free/open source software license, like the GNU GPL. That would be great! But some vendors might not be able to release the source code. Maybe there are legal restrictions, based on licensing agreements (libraries, etc) and it would be too much work for them to go through the legal clearance process to release the source code to a classic DOS program. In this case, I'd be happy if they re-released the software as free (gratis). For example, Trius Inc did this with the shareware As-Easy-As spreadsheet. They provided an activation code that anyone could use to activate As-Easy-As 5.7. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:56 PM, geneb wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, dmccunney wrote: > >> Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did. They inherited the >> former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as >> unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site. >> There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it >> available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based >> stuff they could *sell*. > > This was actually done by Borland, long before the stand-alone tools > division (CodeGear) was created, let alone sold to Embarcadero. Hmmm. True, and thanks for the correction. Embarcadero simply carried on the practice. But the point stands. I don't see a *paying* market for DOS software, but Corel might be convinced to make it available as unsupported freeware. Source code is nice, but not a magic bullet. The vast majority of folks who grab open source software want the compiled binaries so they can *run* them. The number of folks who are *able* to fix bugs and add features because they have the source is a very tiny fraction of the number of folks who will actually use the programs. If Jim can convince Corel to offer source uinder a license that will let him add it the the FreeDOS distribution, I'll be surprised and delighted. If anyone actually grabs that source, and uploads new and improved versions incorporating changes they made to the source, I'll be astonished. Having it available under a compatible open source license will let Jim make it available as part of FreeDOS. Having it available as Freeware gives folks something they can *do* with FreeDOS, which may be more important. > g. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, dmccunney wrote: Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did. They inherited the former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site. There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based stuff they could *sell*. This was actually done by Borland, long before the stand-alone tools division (CodeGear) was created, let alone sold to Embarcadero. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Dale E Sterner wrote: > I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but > to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be. > Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you > have a million downloads they may feel there is once > again a viable market for their product and will sell > and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has > alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss > the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the > world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much > without high quality software to run on it I wouldn't expect release of source, either, though it would be nice. But neither would I expect release for sale. Who would *buy* it? DOS has been dead for years, and I doubt there would be enough paying customers to make sales worth the while. Actually *selling* stuff involves costs to be *able* to sell it, and unless you are confident of a decent sales volume, it's not worth doing. Yes, FreeDOS 1.1 has gotten a million downloads, but that, by itself, is meaningless. How many of the downloaders actually installed it, and on what? How many are actually using it, and what are they doing with it if they are? (My own bet is that most actually using it are doing do to play old DOS games *native*, not use stuff like WP or QPro.) Best case, you get what Embarcadero once did. They inherited the former Borland DOS products like Turbo-C, and were offering them as unsupported freeware downloads from a community link on their site. There was no *paying* market for the DOS stuff, but making it available was a nice gesture and good publicity for the Windows based stuff they could *sell*. > cheers > DS. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Connecting to a BBS via a modem
I think you helped keep an interesting piece of software from fading out permenantly. It has little practical use but is interesting to look at - a piece of historical art. Protected software usually disappears completely when it loses its usefulness. This way some younger people can see what it use to look like. cheers DS On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:53:00 -0700 (PDT) geneb writes: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, Jim Hall wrote: > > > While I know that this helped a specific user request, I'd > appreciate > > that we not share/link to "crack" tools that circumvent copy > > protection. Even for programs like Telix that aren't supported > > anymore. > > > Your house, your rules. No problem. :) > > > Free/open source software has a hard enough time being viewed in > > certain circles as "hacker" culture, and sharing "crack" tools > doesn't > > help with that image. > > > I can't bring myself to pander to a group of people that are baffled > by > computers equipped with multi-button mice. (or no mouse at all!) :) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! > > - - > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ** >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** Cardiologist Warns: Throw Out Your Probiotics Now Gundry MD http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5ad8e0478487b60464b02st04duc -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
I wouldn't expect them to ever release the source but to put it back on the market for sale, like it use to be. Not everthing can be open and free. If you tell them you have a million downloads they may feel there is once again a viable market for their product and will sell and upgrade their dos line. I thing that Corel still has alot of dos fans out there. I think alot of people miss the simplicity and practicality of dos. Don't expect the world to be completely free. DOS isn't worth much without high quality software to run on it cheers DS. On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:29:10 -0500 Jim Hall writes: > >> I downloaded as-easy-as from your site. > >> I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command > >> that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros > >> would run without it. > >> Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns > >> the copyright and see if they could bring back their > >> office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best > >> dos software ever. > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Robert Riebisch > wrote: > > Hi Dale, > > > > Would be a nice contribution to the FreeDOS community if *you* > take this > > job. :-) > > > > I agree with Robert! I think it would be great for you to reach out > to > Corel (or any other software company) and ask that they release the > source code to their DOS applications under a Free/open source > software license like the GNU General Public License. > > You can reach Corel here: > http://www.corel.com/ > > I just contacted them to ask about Quattro Pro and WordPerfect, but > I'm sure it would help if others (like you) also contacted them an > politely asked if they would release the source code to their legacy > DOS applications under a Free/open source software license. The more > people who ask, the more likely they are to respond. > > On Corel's "Contact" page, you can chat online, open a ticket or > call. > I chose to open a support ticket with them. > > Jim > > - - > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ** >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** After Weeks Of Rumors, Joanna Gaines Comes Clean risingstarnewspaper.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5ad8db08f39b25b084c2bst02duc -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Connecting to a BBS via a modem
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018, Jim Hall wrote: While I know that this helped a specific user request, I'd appreciate that we not share/link to "crack" tools that circumvent copy protection. Even for programs like Telix that aren't supported anymore. Your house, your rules. No problem. :) Free/open source software has a hard enough time being viewed in certain circles as "hacker" culture, and sharing "crack" tools doesn't help with that image. I can't bring myself to pander to a group of people that are baffled by computers equipped with multi-button mice. (or no mouse at all!) :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Connecting to a BBS via a modem
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2018, Dale E Sterner wrote: >> My copy asks for money for a key but noone left to collect it. >> I used up half my legal trys brfore it shuts down. >> What was that link again? On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 2:28 PM, geneb wrote: > You can also go here: > http://cd.textfiles.com/hackersencyc/PC/CRAKHOUS/FILES.HTM and grab the file > called "351crack.com" - I tested against the Telix download I pointed you to > and it did work. While I know that this helped a specific user request, I'd appreciate that we not share/link to "crack" tools that circumvent copy protection. Even for programs like Telix that aren't supported anymore. Free/open source software has a hard enough time being viewed in certain circles as "hacker" culture, and sharing "crack" tools doesn't help with that image. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
>> I downloaded as-easy-as from your site. >> I didn't see a "LET command listed. Its a command >> that makes dos qpro special. None of my dos macros >> would run without it. >> Maybe you could talk to Corel or who ever owns >> the copyright and see if they could bring back their >> office software for FREEDOS use. They made the best >> dos software ever. On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Robert Riebisch wrote: > Hi Dale, > > Would be a nice contribution to the FreeDOS community if *you* take this > job. :-) > I agree with Robert! I think it would be great for you to reach out to Corel (or any other software company) and ask that they release the source code to their DOS applications under a Free/open source software license like the GNU General Public License. You can reach Corel here: http://www.corel.com/ I just contacted them to ask about Quattro Pro and WordPerfect, but I'm sure it would help if others (like you) also contacted them an politely asked if they would release the source code to their legacy DOS applications under a Free/open source software license. The more people who ask, the more likely they are to respond. On Corel's "Contact" page, you can chat online, open a ticket or call. I chose to open a support ticket with them. Jim -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user