[Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
Anyone successfully making direct use of the tunein.com site,
www.tunein.com
On a machine running freedos  as the only operating system?
If so, what are you using for browser and playback?
I stress again that I am not interested in anyone doing this by running 
freedos as a virtual system on top of other systems.
More than once i have been asked why I still prefer MS Dos 7.1 to running 
freedos.  My answer remains that I use DOS   exclusively, not for playing 
games.  Meaning that I continue to seek something I can get in freedos as 
a stand alone system that I do not already have so to speak.
One example where I would consider running freedos would be on a laptop, 
outfitted with native networking with a wireless adapter that I  could use 
for travel.
There is no existing Linux system that I could run in this fashion, 
because for me personally, there is no  existing Linux system providing 
the adaptive technology I both desire and require.

Still, my focused question is on the tunein.com site or platform?
Anyone able to illustrate  freedos working in this fashion?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Video and Blog: FreeDos with QBASIC From a Single Floppy

[Robert Riebisch]

Hi Carsten,

> I just found this nice blog post on how to create a "cyberpunk" style DOS 
> machine with FreeDOS and QBasic
> 
> FreeDos with QBASIC From a Single Floppy
> 

For clarification: QBASIC means QuickBASIC 4.5 here.

Cheers,
Robert
-- 
  +++ BTTR Software +++
 Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/


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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Lukas Satin]

BTW: DOjS is a piece of cake. I develop MS-DOS games since I was 8 years
old (simple 16 colors). DOjS is based on Allegro, I worked on one Allegro
game (Lunar lander clone) as a student within a team of other students. So
it is just a matter of taking the regex stuff and some support for the
syntax. It is TUI, not GUI.

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 9:49 PM Lukas Satin  wrote:

> @Tom I pointed out to Mart to try it himself. I think there is a high
> chance that it will work.
>
> Haha, the minimum wage - someone can do it as a part time project. I don't
> want to start this discussion, but minimum wage in Germany is not even
> junior software developer salary in Ostrava (Czechia), my hometown. I
> started as Java developer in Tieto (owned by Finland) in Ostrava and my
> salary was half of your minimum wage! And we live next to each other. This
> was only 8 years ago. That I quit after 3 months was something else, but
> Ostrava companies always made me upset. They work directly for Germany or
> under Germany and even after 10 years experience and working for Dubai
> blockchain startup, they offered me very low salary. I decided not to
> support this, packed my "two bags" and travelled 3 hours by train to
> Prague. Now I have 3 times higher salary than in my hometown (difference in
> rent is very small). So to end up this in a positive way: there are many
> people in Europe who work for lower salary than German average and I'm sure
> they could do it. Therefore it is doable :-) Have a nice day!
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 9:16 PM tom ehlert  wrote:
>
>>
>> > The only light at the end of the tunnel right now is something like
>> > HX DOS, which allows you to run SIMPLE Win32 apps in DOS. Give it a
>> > try: https://www.japheth.de/HX.html
>>
>> DOES IT WORK IN A REASONABLE WAY?
>>
>>
>>
>> > More realistic solution would be to crowdfund some developer to
>> > write a DOS port in something like https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS
>> > (but I'm not sure about performance on 486 and lower, running Pentium 1
>> would be more safe).
>>
>> have you even the slightest ide how nuch time it takes to write a DOS
>> port? multiply this by the minimum wage law of your country.
>>
>>
>> maybe Jim Hall should it port on his video channel.
>>
>>
>> > Try to run it in FreeDOS again using HX GUI / HX RT.
>> did this work for you?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Lukas Satin]

@Tom I pointed out to Mart to try it himself. I think there is a high
chance that it will work.

Haha, the minimum wage - someone can do it as a part time project. I don't
want to start this discussion, but minimum wage in Germany is not even
junior software developer salary in Ostrava (Czechia), my hometown. I
started as Java developer in Tieto (owned by Finland) in Ostrava and my
salary was half of your minimum wage! And we live next to each other. This
was only 8 years ago. That I quit after 3 months was something else, but
Ostrava companies always made me upset. They work directly for Germany or
under Germany and even after 10 years experience and working for Dubai
blockchain startup, they offered me very low salary. I decided not to
support this, packed my "two bags" and travelled 3 hours by train to
Prague. Now I have 3 times higher salary than in my hometown (difference in
rent is very small). So to end up this in a positive way: there are many
people in Europe who work for lower salary than German average and I'm sure
they could do it. Therefore it is doable :-) Have a nice day!

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 9:16 PM tom ehlert  wrote:

>
> > The only light at the end of the tunnel right now is something like
> > HX DOS, which allows you to run SIMPLE Win32 apps in DOS. Give it a
> > try: https://www.japheth.de/HX.html
>
> DOES IT WORK IN A REASONABLE WAY?
>
>
>
> > More realistic solution would be to crowdfund some developer to
> > write a DOS port in something like https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS
> > (but I'm not sure about performance on 486 and lower, running Pentium 1
> would be more safe).
>
> have you even the slightest ide how nuch time it takes to write a DOS
> port? multiply this by the minimum wage law of your country.
>
>
> maybe Jim Hall should it port on his video channel.
>
>
> > Try to run it in FreeDOS again using HX GUI / HX RT.
> did this work for you?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Thomas Desi]

Hi Liam, 
thanks for pointing out the link to the Oberon on DOS.
I downloaded the files indicated from sourceforge.net

Starting the Oberon  SYSTEM.EXE creates around 255 new files…
It needs HIMEM.SYS

However… things like this makes me quickly return to Freedos bare metal: just a 
few system files and booting in no time… 
I am not sure if the extra miles are really worth it, haven’t got that time 
either. Although it sounds quite interesting.

It is strange that some things do not really catch on or persist (3 button 
mouse, for example).

thx, 
Th.



> Am 21.06.2021 um 15:05 schrieb Liam Proven :
> 
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 05:42, Mart Zirnask  wrote:
>> 
>> However, I am a fan of the Sam text editor, originally developed for
>> the Plan 9 OS.
> 
> SAM, Acme and the Plan 9 Rio environment were inspired by Niklaus
> Wirth's Oberon environment.
> 
> The UI is quite similar to the Oberon UI.
> 
> Quick intro:
> http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/04/22/oberon/
> 
> Wikipedia article:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)
> 
> Some of the history:
> https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Articles/LeanSoftware.pdf
> 
> Academic assessment:
> http://people.cis.ksu.edu//~danielwang/Investigation/System_Security/download.pdf
> (Warning, non HTTPS link, but it's real, valid and safe.)
> 
> Thus, you might find it interesting and instructive to check out Oberon.
> 
> Modern versions run on top of Windows, macOS and Linux, but it also
> used to run on top of DOS if that's what you want.
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/files/DOS%20Oberon%20System%203%20Version%202.0/
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[tom ehlert]

> The only light at the end of the tunnel right now is something like
> HX DOS, which allows you to run SIMPLE Win32 apps in DOS. Give it a
> try: https://www.japheth.de/HX.html

DOES IT WORK IN A REASONABLE WAY?



> More realistic solution would be to crowdfund some developer to
> write a DOS port in something like https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS
> (but I'm not sure about performance on 486 and lower, running Pentium 1 would 
> be more safe).

have you even the slightest ide how nuch time it takes to write a DOS
port? multiply this by the minimum wage law of your country.


maybe Jim Hall should it port on his video channel.


> Try to run it in FreeDOS again using HX GUI / HX RT.
did this work for you?

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Lukas Satin]

Hi Liam & guys, thanks for interesting info and welcome to Prague. I just
moved there few months ago as well.

I was looking at some code repositories:
https://github.com/deadpixi/sam
https://github.com/9fans/plan9port

The problem is that the Linux/Mac/PPC port relies on X11 GUI support. For
Win32, the MingW compiler is also different and will have some sort of GUI
layer. If it would be that simple and I could compile stuff like this in
FreeDOS, that would be great. But it is not possible.

The only light at the end of the tunnel right now is something like HX DOS,
which allows you to run SIMPLE Win32 apps in DOS. Give it a try:
https://www.japheth.de/HX.html

More realistic solution would be to crowdfund some developer to write a DOS
port in something like https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS (but I'm not sure
about performance on 486 and lower, running Pentium 1 would be more safe).

Try to run it in FreeDOS again using HX GUI / HX RT.

Lukas

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 3:07 PM Liam Proven  wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 05:42, Mart Zirnask  wrote:
> >
> > However, I am a fan of the Sam text editor, originally developed for
> > the Plan 9 OS.
>
> SAM, Acme and the Plan 9 Rio environment were inspired by Niklaus
> Wirth's Oberon environment.
>
> The UI is quite similar to the Oberon UI.
>
> Quick intro:
> http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/04/22/oberon/
>
> Wikipedia article:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)
>
> Some of the history:
> https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Articles/LeanSoftware.pdf
>
> Academic assessment:
>
> http://people.cis.ksu.edu//~danielwang/Investigation/System_Security/download.pdf
> (Warning, non HTTPS link, but it's real, valid and safe.)
>
> Thus, you might find it interesting and instructive to check out Oberon.
>
> Modern versions run on top of Windows, macOS and Linux, but it also
> used to run on top of DOS if that's what you want.
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/files/DOS%20Oberon%20System%203%20Version%202.0/
>
> --
> Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 05:42, Mart Zirnask  wrote:
>
> However, I am a fan of the Sam text editor, originally developed for
> the Plan 9 OS.

SAM, Acme and the Plan 9 Rio environment were inspired by Niklaus
Wirth's Oberon environment.

The UI is quite similar to the Oberon UI.

Quick intro:
http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/04/22/oberon/

Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)

Some of the history:
https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Articles/LeanSoftware.pdf

Academic assessment:
http://people.cis.ksu.edu//~danielwang/Investigation/System_Security/download.pdf
(Warning, non HTTPS link, but it's real, valid and safe.)

Thus, you might find it interesting and instructive to check out Oberon.

Modern versions run on top of Windows, macOS and Linux, but it also
used to run on top of DOS if that's what you want.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/files/DOS%20Oberon%20System%203%20Version%202.0/

-- 
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
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Re: [Freedos-user] Building Plan9's Sam text editor on FreeDOS? (+ Edlin without line numbers?)

[Thomas Desi]

Hi Mart, 

maybe I was waiting for someone asking this question ;)

Let me ask: "Why?" or better "What for?". What is your use-case for SAM?

SAM is sort-of part of the Plan9 OS as an
integrated element of the whole PLAN 9 concept. If you want a lean system, you 
can have PLAN9 & SAM on Raspberry. A port exists. If you use TinyCore already, 
you are much more on the Linux side.

I am courious to hear your use case or ideas why you would want to use 
specifically SAM (or ACME?)

As Plan9 makes  specific and differenciated use of the mouse (three buttons, 
chordings...) this doesn't seam ideal for DOS. 
Brant has written MOUSKEYS which is a nifty implementation of the mouse - but 
not what PLAN9 does.
(Also: graphic vs text oriented display)

If you are just looking for a good text editor, you can go for VDE or FLEX or 
something like E (4k size...).

It is just my guess that DOS is a very different concept from UNIX (or PLAN9, 
as a sort-of-derivative) ... ( I am not a programmer or so, just using FreeDos 
for text editing )

regards,
Thomas

> On Mon,20210621- week25, at 05:41, Mart Zirnask  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm a new subscriber, not a programmer, but interested in lean systems
> -- and also a person with a DOS-y childhood. Now I'm getting to know
> FreeDOS, reading the mailing list archives. It is wonderful to find
> such a lively community around an  "old" system (as in, it being a
> MS-DOS derivate) like this.
> 
> (Also, Jim, I am taking time to watch your C tutorials on Youtube. You
> seem to be a really wonderful, humble person. A great teacher.)
> 
> Also, having used Tiny Core Linux as a daily driver, I am blown away
> by how fast FreeDOS boots!
> 
> However, I am a fan of the Sam text editor, originally developed for
> the Plan 9 OS. It has a CLI line editor mode ('sam -d' -- similar to
> 'ed', but purposefully with a few less commands). Sam has been ported
> to Windows, but on FreeDOS I got the "This program cannot be run in
> DOS mode" error.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am not capable enough to try building it for FreeDOS
> myself -- so I was wondering if maybe somebody could help?
> 
> A current Win32 port built with MinGW (+sources) can be found here:
> http://sam.cat-v.org/_files/win32_sam.zip
> 
> Also, here are Rob Pike's original papers on Sam and its (IMO) main
> selling point, structural regular expressions:
> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/sam/
> http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/sam_lang_tutorial/sam_tut.pdf
> http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/structural_regexps/se.pdf
> 
> As a workaround, I could also use Edlin in place of Sam.
> But is  there a way to turn line numbers off in Edlin?
> This would be great for writing things other than code.
> 
> Thanks very much in advance,
> also, thanks again for all the devs (Jim & others) behind FreeDOS!
> 
> Greetings from Estonia,
> Mart
> 
> 
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