Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup
Hi! Let me get a bit more verbose in my installation thoughts. If you want to hide FreeDOS and MS DOS from each other, at least a bit, you could use filesystem choice for that: Install Linux on a Linux filesystem. Install XP on some NTFS filesystem. Install FreeDOS on a FAT32 filesystem. Install MS DOS on a FAT16 filesystem. By putting them in an appropriate order, XP can be C: while it sees the other 2 DOS versions as D: and E: and FreeDOS can be C: while seeing MS DOS as D: and last but not least MS DOS can be C: while not using any other partitions. Be aware that MS DOS can only use CHS partitions within the first 8 GB of the drive. Regarding the boot menu question, you can manually edit the GRUB menu.lst file after letting whatever automatic menu.lst generation offered by your Linux distro create entries for Linux, XP and MS DOS. This would let you add a FreeDOS entry when MS DOS and FreeDOS share the same partition. For that, you would manually run the FreeDOS SYS, after booting MS DOS, in the special style SYS C: freedos.bin bootonly this will create a freedos.bin boot sector file. You then copy the menu.lst section about MS DOS, but edit the "chainloader +1" line and make that something like "chainloader (hd0,1)/freedos.bin" if (hd0,1) would be your MS DOS partition. But given that you want 4 separate partitions for your 4 operating systems anyway, you can let the automatic menu.lst generation of GRUB do EVERYTHING, without the need for special SYS commands or manual menu.lst edits if you make sure that the 4 partitions all use different filesystem types :-) I recommend that you start by installing XP, because it is more likely to damage existing installs of other OS. Next, install Linux. Depending on the distro, it will provide a wizard to install a dual-boot which keeps XP working and gives you a boot menu. Add one FAT32 and one FAT16 primary partition either during this step or later, using a graphical Linux partitioning and formatting tool such as GPARTED. Boot MS DOS from a floppy or similar and install it manually to the FAT16 partition, without formatting or partitioning anything. Maybe you just use a boot disk and run SYS and copy some files, instead of running some automated installer at that point. Take similar steps for FreeDOS. I am not sure whether it will automatically skip formatting and partitioning, but do make sure to skip those. Also, make sure that your FAT32 partition is before the FAT16 one. That way the FAT32 partition will be C: and the MS DOS FAT16 partition will be D: for FreeDOS, while MS DOS will only see the FAT16 partition and call it C: :-) Boot Linux and let the GRUB menu.lst generator tool do magic to add menu entries for the two DOS partitions. I expect all DOS systems to require extra tricks if their boot partition is not a primary partition, but you can only have 4 primary partitions in total, or 3 if you also need additional non-primary partitions. In the latter case, I think you can boot at least Linux from non-primary partitions. Not sure about XP. You may have to tell Linux to install GRUB in the MBR, not in the boot sector of your Linux boot partition, for this to work. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup
I am no longer an experienced DOS user. I am relearning. And only understood half of what you said. Guess I have gotten old and lazy. and even back in the day I just went right to windows, to work in VB 3. I think 95 came out a year after I really got my start. Plus I really want them to be separate. I wish I knew how to do grub better but that xFDisk seems like it would do the trick. I have GParted and could use that to do all the Partitioning and hiding but I don't see that it has a way to install and setup grub, Unless someone says there are issues with xFDisk I'll try that. Worst thing that could happen is that I have to start over again. Adam On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 4:07 PM Eric Auer wrote: > > Hi! > > You could try metakern: FreeDOS SYS has command line options to write > the boot sector to a file instead of to the boot sector. You can use > either DEBUG or Linux or simple or fancy DOS tools of your choice to > harvest the boot sectors of MS DOS and XP. If FreeDOS finds the file > fdconfig.sys, it will use that and ignore config.sys, so you can tell > FreeDOS to use a different command.com than MS DOS in the SHELL line, > which you can also use to tell our freecom shell to use a different > file instead of autoexec.bat :-) > > In short, you can use metakern as a boot menu to install FreeDOS and > MS DOS on the SAME C: drive, both visible to each other. Of course > it will take a bit of copying files around and making backups before > one installer overwrites files of the other DOS, but as experienced > DOS user, you can do it :-) > > You can also add XP to the equation if you manage to keep config > files separate, but it is probably easier to install XP to a NTFS > partition which both DOS versions will simply ignore. You can use > for example your Linux boot manager to boot either Linux or XP or > the DOS partition and then use metakern to boot either FreeDOS or > MS DOS. > > Or even easier: Copy the harvested boot sectors of both MS DOS and > FreeDOS to your Linux boot manager directory and manually add boot > menu items for the two DOS versions directly to your Linux boot menu > without using metakern. > > Regards, Eric > > > > > I and trying to get a multiboot setup > > > > 1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11 > > 2. FreeDos 1.3 > > 3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no... > > 4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE... > > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Can you recommend a good single-board-computer for legacy OSs?
wow, gentlemen thanks for the feedback. Hardly ever happens to me, after such a wall of text... Seems like we have a shared interest :-) Frank ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup
Hi! You could try metakern: FreeDOS SYS has command line options to write the boot sector to a file instead of to the boot sector. You can use either DEBUG or Linux or simple or fancy DOS tools of your choice to harvest the boot sectors of MS DOS and XP. If FreeDOS finds the file fdconfig.sys, it will use that and ignore config.sys, so you can tell FreeDOS to use a different command.com than MS DOS in the SHELL line, which you can also use to tell our freecom shell to use a different file instead of autoexec.bat :-) In short, you can use metakern as a boot menu to install FreeDOS and MS DOS on the SAME C: drive, both visible to each other. Of course it will take a bit of copying files around and making backups before one installer overwrites files of the other DOS, but as experienced DOS user, you can do it :-) You can also add XP to the equation if you manage to keep config files separate, but it is probably easier to install XP to a NTFS partition which both DOS versions will simply ignore. You can use for example your Linux boot manager to boot either Linux or XP or the DOS partition and then use metakern to boot either FreeDOS or MS DOS. Or even easier: Copy the harvested boot sectors of both MS DOS and FreeDOS to your Linux boot manager directory and manually add boot menu items for the two DOS versions directly to your Linux boot menu without using metakern. Regards, Eric I and trying to get a multiboot setup 1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11 2. FreeDos 1.3 3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no... 4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE... ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Can you recommend a good single-board-computer for legacy OSs?
Vortex86 hardware (at least some of it) is also supported by a coreboot+SeaBIOS opensource BIOS (adding that to my message here - https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/37785576/ ) . If you are fed up with the crappy proprietary BIOSes, this opensource one could be much more satisfying for you ср, 8 мар. 2023 г. в 22:23, Travis Siegel : > > Thanks man, extremely helpful. Probably exactly what I've been looking > for, for years. I knew it was out there, (I'd seen reference to such > boards in industrial processes posts), but couldn't find them anywhere. > With this, I might be able to actually build a couple of the projects I > wanted to do for years now. Thanks for that. > > Very happy. > > > On 3/8/2023 4:47 AM, Frantisek Rysanek wrote: > > On 7 Mar 2023 at 23:06, Ben Hutchinson wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2023, 5:14 PM Volkert via Freedos-user > >> wrote: > >>> You might look for products based on a Vortex86 SoC. Those have > >>> a legacy BIOS and can boot MS-DOS and older Windows versions > >>> and such. > >>> [ + a link to the Vogons forum, which has links to ICOP] > >> I'm looking for one that's mass produced, just like Arduinos and > >> Raspberry Pis are mass produced hobbyist computer boards. The only > >> problem with those is they don't support intel CPU instructions. > >> > > I'd like to second the advice given by PM Volkert: > > you should definitely take a look at the Vortex86 family, namely on > > motherboards made by ICOP, or miniature PC boxes by some other > > sibling company in the family around DMP and ICOP. > > > > Note that Vortex86, especially in the DX2 generation, is pretty close > > to machines of the 486 / Pentium era. It's got a proper, full-blown > > ISA bus straight from the SoC, and also 32bit / 33MHz PCI. > > The DX-based boards by ICOP come with an XGI Z9s graphics chip that > > has something like 32 MB of dedicated Video DRAM and is accompanied > > by a pretty good VESA BIOS, where good = decent compatibility with > > DOS-era software. It can run Windows up to XP, although for XP the > > onboard 512 MB of RAM is already hardly sufficient. Graphics drivers > > are available for the Windows 9x and NT. > > > > With the Vortex86DX, you get an AMI BIOS with APM support (no ACPI), > > with AT-style power supply control. > > The more modern Vortex variants (up to DX3, at the time of this > > writing) are faster, maybe up to on par with the early 45nm ATOM's, > > they have more RAM onboard, their BIOS adds ACPI support, but these > > newer Vortex platforms start to depart slightly from the hardcore > > "oldtimer DOS experience". > > > > Vortex86 by DMP / ICOP is the last remaining supporter of the DOS > > era. You won't buy any other new hardware with a comparable set of > > old-skool features. > > > > Speaking of "mass-produced"... I'm not sure to what extent you are > > aware of the functioning of the market of PC computers. > > I myself work in the "industrial PC" business, so I'm aware of this > > niche that may slip under the radar of a typical home/office PC user. > > > > The mainstream mass-produced gaming/home/office PC's have a pretty > > short product life cycle and are subject to the latest marketing > > trends and fads. A particular motherboard model is available for > > maybe a year. Say 6 months to 2 years. You get a truckload (cargo > > ship load) of a particular motherboard model produced for stock, that > > stock gets depleted in a few months and will never come back. By the > > time that batch gets depleted, a newer model is already being > > mass-produced. Etc. > > > > The industrial PC HW market is different. The customers demand > > product lifecycles that last many years, preferably forever. The > > quantities sold are minuscule, compared to the mass market. Maybe 10% > > of the mainstream market, if you summarize across a CPU generation. > > The production batches are typically much smaller, compared to the > > mass market - but, the production runs do repeat, as long as demand > > lasts, and as long as chips are available. > > > > The chip-level lifecycle is longer. The stumbling block is the CPU > > and chipset - nowadays often merged together conveniently in an SoC. > > For the embedded/IPC market, the champion in product lifecycle and > > volume sold remains Intel (not AMD). In the product pages at > > ark.intel.com, mind a note here and there saying "embedded SKU > > options available". The word "embedded" here correlates to the > > specific IPC market niche, and an extended availability, often for a > > decade or almost. > > > > Note that this IPC/embdedded motherboard market does not run along > > with the evolutionary bleeding edge: instead, it seems to pick up > > mature CPU generations as they're phased out from mainstream > > availability. Courtesy of that conservative approach, in the > > industrial x86 market you get stable silicon (already after several > > iterations of early bugfixing revisions), stable motherboard PCB > > desig
[Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup
Was there a reason this doesn't seem to be included on the usb installer (if it is I can't find it) I and trying to get a multiboot setup 1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11 2. FreeDos 1.3 3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no. (it dumped on drive "E", getting networking and drivers was a damn pain so bleh I won't be using it much anyway. 4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE and https://b00merang.weebly.com/windows-311.html This is going on a Dell Latitude D520 And when I go to install FreeDos on a partition from the USB Installer iso. It really, really wants to overwrite the MSDOS So I was thinking that I could.. Install MSDOS Boot with FreeDos, run xFdisk , mark the msdos drive as hidden, and install a bootloader like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvI8Q0uaihI&t=7s&ab_channel=i80386sx But if it wasn't added I am wondering if it is bad, or just not maintained. I might be able to do this with the live gparted CD, but I have never installed grub manually before. So maybe I do the MSDOS install Create and format a partition for FreeDos Install Linux and fix the grub to then do freedos Why? cause I always get asked... Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I was working in VB 3 lol, run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I can port a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to do any of that in a VM. Adam ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
