Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
On Jun 24, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote: Hi all, I hope you noticed the comment at the end saying that Aitor is NOT actually the sender of this mail. Among others hops, it came along the German Alice DSL IP 85.177.229.61 - the mail header says this: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at ab...@frell.theremailer.net So... No flame wars please, in particular not under false names! Eric And at least in my Inbox, the email was marked Spam, probably because it had false headers. I didn't even see the original until you replied to it. ;-) -jh -- All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
Hi all, I hope you noticed the comment at the end saying that Aitor is NOT actually the sender of this mail. Among others hops, it came along the German Alice DSL IP 85.177.229.61 - the mail header says this: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at ab...@frell.theremailer.net So... No flame wars please, in particular not under false names! Eric On 24.06.2011 04:25, Aitor Santamaria wrote: A whining commie wrote: Is there a software license open source or not that DOESN'T limit you in some way? [a lot of flamewar bait] Get off your lazy, communist I'm entitled ass and get a job you bum! [Sorry to Aitor Santamaria for hijacking his email address. Looks like you can't post to this list without subscribing or forging email headers so I chose the latter. Bye!] -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c1 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 04:12 +0200, japhethx gmail wrote: [snip] I think everybody has learned the last years that GPL software can be used without any second thoughts and distributed freely.[snip] No. Yes, that's a huge strong point. As long as you provide access to the complete source code, for a fee to cover copying/transmission or gratis is irrelevant. I am also a real fan of the Free Software idea. Otherwise I wouldn't use FreeDOS (which is released under the GPL as well). Some developers may not be too happy about the license choice, especially those who would like to grab your code and try to make money from it by making it part of an unfree software. But who cares about them? I think the GPL is about having fun, about trust and fairness and about learning from others and alllowing others to participate. Thanks for your enthusiasm and propaganda! GPL is a valid license that has its pros and cons. Personally, I don't like it. One reason for this is because it sounds like a political manifesto, which - IMO - insults the readers intelligence. Just my opinion :)). Is there a software license open source or not that DOESN'T limit you in some way? Can a software license not be political? What's really driving this anti-GPL commentary? Sure, you can't hide changes that you make to open source software under the GPL. Why does the GPL exist? Simple, Microsoft is an unchallenged monopoly. The only serious alternative that exists to Windows is open source software. No closed source commercial endeavor can get off the ground. If you like Windows, there is ReactOS. This is a GPL based project that has a ways to go, but I suppose it is somewhat interesting. The GPL is not always convenient, but would you pay for Freedos 1.1 say $100+ if it wasn't free? The answer is clearly no. Freedos will always be free, give or take a sharing fee. GPL software can be fixed even if the original author dies or loses interest in it. With closed source software, this isn't the case at all. With most software these days being old software that needs to be maintained, open source often makes more sense than closed source. Back to networking, DOS by it's very nature is one of the simplest OS'es in existence. DOS hides very little from user space. Security is an afterthought. Networking and security go hand in hand. If one tries to impose a networking standard on DOS or worse one expects to make DOS thread and multi core safe, the product will not be DOS. Freedos has no way of running up to date web browsers. Adding them to freedos, there is a risk that the minimum computer needed will become a Pentium 4 or better. File level security can't be implemented in a DOS environment without breaking old software that isn't aware of the security. I don't know if thread programming is even possible in DOS. I suppose one could develop a hypervisor for multi core systems that implements an independent copy of DOS on each processor core. I understand that there was at one time a multi user version of DOS, but compatibility is going to be an issue trying to implement one. -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
-Original Message- From: Michael C. Robinson [mailto:plu...@robinson-west.com] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:35 AM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 04:12 +0200, japhethx gmail wrote: [snip] I think everybody has learned the last years that GPL software can be used without any second thoughts and distributed freely.[snip] No. Yes, that's a huge strong point. As long as you provide access to the complete source code, for a fee to cover copying/transmission or gratis is irrelevant. I am also a real fan of the Free Software idea. Otherwise I wouldn't use FreeDOS (which is released under the GPL as well). Some developers may not be too happy about the license choice, especially those who would like to grab your code and try to make money from it by making it part of an unfree software. But who cares about them? I think the GPL is about having fun, about trust and fairness and about learning from others and alllowing others to participate. Thanks for your enthusiasm and propaganda! GPL is a valid license that has its pros and cons. Personally, I don't like it. One reason for this is because it sounds like a political manifesto, which - IMO - insults the readers intelligence. Just my opinion :)). Is there a software license open source or not that DOESN'T limit you in some way? Can a software license not be political? What's really driving this anti-GPL commentary? Sure, you can't hide changes that you make to open source software under the GPL. Why does the GPL exist? Simple, Microsoft is an unchallenged monopoly. The only serious alternative that exists to Windows is open source software. No closed source commercial endeavor can get off the ground. If you like Windows, there is ReactOS. This is a GPL based project that has a ways to go, but I suppose it is somewhat interesting. The GPL is not always convenient, but would you pay for Freedos 1.1 say $100+ if it wasn't free? The answer is clearly no. Freedos will always be free, give or take a sharing fee. GPL software can be fixed even if the original author dies or loses interest in it. With closed source software, this isn't the case at all. With most software these days being old software that needs to be maintained, open source often makes more sense than closed source. I think his point is that even the GPL can be too restrictive for some people's tastes. There are other, less-restrictive licenses such as Apache. When I do some code, I normally put essentially a public-domain license that says you can do anything you want with my code. I don't expect that anybody will be making money with it, but if they do, that's fine with me. The won't be able to patent it since the fact I already released it makes it prior art, so they can't restrict me from doing more with it as I see fit, so I haven't lost anything. -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
Am 01.06.2011 04:49, schrieb Michael B. Brutman: On 5/31/2011 2:23 AM, Marcos Favero Florence de Barros wrote: Hi Ulrich, Michael, others, Now that mTCP is Free Software, I think the next version of FreeDOS should focus on getting basic networking abilities. That's wonderful news :-) Actually this is not really news but just a wish from my side. The discussion what*s part of FreeDOS 1.1 takes place since some time at freedos-devel. I think the developers decide, while we users should publish our expectations and wishes. So I really hope with the release of mTCP as Free Software, mTCP will become part of FreeDOS 1.1 as it has been already discussed in freedos-devel. Are you also contemplating networks for sharing files, i.e., a client- server scheme on which a database could operate? (I use DataPerfect.) There are a lot of possibilities. I had some ideas for a TSR that would present a new DOS drive letter and use a machine elsewhere on the network to provide the actual storage, either in the form of a virtual hard drive or through SMB. It would use the DOS network redirector interface which is not documented by Microsoft, but there are some books and sample code around. But that code is quite a bit different in nature than any of the mTCP code that I have written, so it has not been started yet. Many FreeDOS users (and projects like network bootdisk) still rely on MS Client, which is unfree. If such a mTCP TSR could help us to get rid of this necessity, this would be great. Such a software would adress a real need of users. And it would also be a progress for FreeDOS, just like the MS Workgroup Add-on for DOS has been for MS DOS 5.0. BTW: As a user I find your choice of the GPL as license great. I think everybody has learned the last years that GPL software can be used without any second thoughts and distributed freely. And the software will always be open for development, it will never vanish, just because its author has lost interest or has other reasons to stop his work. That's fine for those who want to use the software. I am also a real fan of the Free Software idea. Otherwise I wouldn't use FreeDOS (which is released under the GPL as well). Some developers may not be too happy about the license choice, especially those who would like to grab your code and try to make money from it by making it part of an unfree software. But who cares about them? I think the GPL is about having fun, about trust and fairness and about learning from others and alllowing others to participate. So this is great for a software project like the one you are just about to start. That's just my opinion. regards Ulrich Hansen -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
On 6/1/2011 5:30 PM, Ulrich Hansen wrote: Actually this is not really news but just a wish from my side. The discussion what*s part of FreeDOS 1.1 takes place since some time at freedos-devel. I think the developers decide, while we users should publish our expectations and wishes. So I really hope with the release of mTCP as Free Software, mTCP will become part of FreeDOS 1.1 as it has been already discussed in freedos-devel. I have only joined the freedos-devel list recently, so I have not seen any of the discussion. (I still consider myself a user primarily.) I think the bigger question is, what does DOS Networking really mean. In its current state there really is no such thing as DOS networking: - Most DOS networking applications do no integrate into DOS in any meaningful way. The exception would be programs that provide network file system access via drive letter. - Because most DOS networking programs are stand-alone applications, there is a great variety of applications. You have everything from tiny SNTP clients to Minuet and Arachne. You have several choice of TCP/IP stacks to build on. - The packet driver interface is a reasonably good standard for communicating with Ethernet cards. But there are other standards out there too. - A TSR that provides networking capability seems to be the natural way to extend DOS. But that approach has drawbacks. It is hard to fit what everybody needs in a single TSR. DOS networking is horribly fragmented because DOS is really network agnostic. The current approach seems to be to provide a variety of programs and let the user decide. Is something else planned? Mike -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Basic networking abilities
[snip] I think everybody has learned the last years that GPL software can be used without any second thoughts and distributed freely.[snip] No. I am also a real fan of the Free Software idea. Otherwise I wouldn't use FreeDOS (which is released under the GPL as well). Some developers may not be too happy about the license choice, especially those who would like to grab your code and try to make money from it by making it part of an unfree software. But who cares about them? I think the GPL is about having fun, about trust and fairness and about learning from others and alllowing others to participate. Thanks for your enthusiasm and propaganda! GPL is a valid license that has its pros and cons. Personally, I don't like it. One reason for this is because it sounds like a political manifesto, which - IMO - insults the readers intelligence. Just my opinion :)). -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
