Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-07 Thread dos386
Jim wrote:

> I like this one:
> > "2011-08-02 18:09:06"

just make it the default ;-)

cm wrote:

> Except if a 12-hour time format is desired

no point ;-)

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-07 Thread cm
> Also, using the all-numeric representation ("2011-08-02 18:09:06")
> makes DIR dead simple for localization. There are no strings to
> replace.

Except if a 12-hour time format is desired.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-06 Thread Jim Hall
>> How's DIR gonna sort by date when AUG goes before JUL
>
> Don't spell the month out if there is a risk of sort, see older post:

I like this one:

> "2011-08-02 18:09:06"


But not these:

> "2011-08(Aug)-02 (Tue) 18:09:06" (sorts well)
>
> or
>
> "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" (doesn't sort well)
>
> so default should be NOT spelled out.



Also, using the all-numeric representation ("2011-08-02 18:09:06")
makes DIR dead simple for localization. There are no strings to
replace.


-jh

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-06 Thread dos386
> > Why not 18'446'744'073'709'551'615 ??? Comma and dot
> > are usually used to separate fractional part: PI = 3.14159265358979
> That's a nice idea, though at first glance a bit odd looking. Any
> systems using this upper [`] or ['] ?

FASM :-) Using it in all my sources :-) The ASCII code is 39. The source
code (NOT FASM) is here: http://freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12600
(to be included in my MD5 calculator, ooops links are dead, have to reupload it)

> How's DIR gonna sort by date when AUG goes before JUL

Don't spell the month out if there is a risk of sort, see older post:

"2011-08-02 18:09:06"

or

"2011-08(Aug)-02 (Tue) 18:09:06" (sorts well)

or

"2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" (doesn't sort well)

so default should be NOT spelled out.

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread cm
>> Why not 18'446'744'073'709'551'615 ??? Comma and dot
>> are usually used to separate fractional part: PI = 3.14159265358979
>
> That's a nice idea, though at first glance a bit odd looking. Any
> systems using this upper [`] or ['] ?

I considered adding the single quote <'> as separator to my debugger's
expression evaluator (besides the NASM style underscore <_>) but it
clashed with its usage as quote for strings. (Could have overloaded it
inside digit sequences, but the syntax is too kludgy already anyway.) The
weird other quotes <`> and <´> are too difficult to type (at least on
German keyboard layouts) so I haven't considered using those yet.

>> What's the ASCII code of EURO ??? BTW, EURO is
>> obsolete and crashing too :-D
>
> € = alt-0128 (under Windows).

It was a trick question, there's no ASCII code of €. And in any case, I'd
prefer to specify its code as U+20AC instead of as weird Alt+numpad
sequences.

>> "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" ???
>
> How's DIR gonna sort by date when AUG goes before JUL due to
> alphabetical issues? Or intending to add code to list the order of months
> ?

I feel like DIR should sort by the binary values of the date anyway, not
the string representations.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Op 4-8-2011 14:32, dos386 schreef:
>> * number: nnn.nnn.nnn,xyz (european)
>
> Why not 18'446'744'073'709'551'615 ??? Comma and dot
> are usually used to separate fractional part: PI = 3.14159265358979

That's a nice idea, though at first glance a bit odd looking. Any 
systems using this upper [`] or ['] ?

>> * separater: ehm no idea.
>
> Of who or what ?

time and date, currency.

>> * keyboard: QWERTY with EURO (858 thus), still not managed to get a
>> euro-sign in DOS but likely depends on having KEYB loaded, which crashes
>
> What's the ASCII code of EURO ??? BTW, EURO is
> obsolete and crashing too :-D

€ = alt-0128 (under Windows). Haven't been able to get it recently 
working under DOS due to needing to sort out some issues with KEYB.
[Right-Alt + 5] should also work

>> I think it's less ambiguous to just spell out the month
>
> Acceptable idea.

How's sorting by month gonna work when it's not numerical?
A directory C:\BACKUP\[MMDD] is quite nice.

>> And (POSIX?) Linux "date" seems to be similarly unambiguous:
>> Tue Aug  2 18:09:06 CDT 2011

but they use timestamps ranging from 1970 to 2038 or so, so no wonder 
they can represent date any way they like, including timezone stuff.

> Horrible :-( (please supply code to sort such dates !!!)
>
> What's wrong with:
>
> "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" ???

How's DIR gonna sort by date when AUG goes before JUL due to 
alphabetical issues? Or intending to add code to list the order of months ?


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread Single Stage to Orbit
On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 06:10 -0700, dos386 wrote:
> "2011-08-02 18:09:06"

My vote's on the ISO 8601 standard (like above) - it makes it easy to
sort directories in date order.

I recommend FreeDOS adopts the ISO 8601 standard, and only convert dates
for humans based on their country/locale. 
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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread David C. Kerber
 

> -Original Message-
> From: dos386 [mailto:dos...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:10 AM
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.
> 
> > > "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06"
> > That one doesn't sort very well either (puts April next to August)
> 
> Indeed :-(
> 
> so
> 
> "2011-08-02 18:09:06"
> 
> or
> 
> "2011-08(Aug)-02 (Tue) 18:09:06"

Personally, I don't care for having the month name as well as the number, 
though I could live with it.  I do like having the day of the week in there, 
though.

Dave

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread dos386
> > "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06"
> That one doesn't sort very well either (puts April next to August)

Indeed :-(

so

"2011-08-02 18:09:06"

or

"2011-08(Aug)-02 (Tue) 18:09:06"

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread David C. Kerber
 

> -Original Message-
> From: dos386 [mailto:dos...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 8:32 AM
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

...

> > and use AM/PM time, e.g.:
> 
> Horrible :-(
> 
> > Tue 02 Aug 2011,  06:08pm
> 
> what's the benefit ? Please supply at least ONE argument ;-)
> 
> > And (POSIX?) Linux "date" seems to be similarly unambiguous:
> > Tue Aug  2 18:09:06 CDT 2011
> 
> Horrible :-( (please supply code to sort such dates !!!)

Unabmiguous, yes, but doesn't sort.


> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> "2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" ???

That one doesn't sort very well either (puts April next to August).  What's 
wrong with the SQL standard:  

2011-08-02 18:09:06

Sorts perfectly as a string.


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-04 Thread dos386
> * number: nnn.nnn.nnn,xyz (european)

Why not 18'446'744'073'709'551'615 ??? Comma and dot
are usually used to separate fractional part: PI = 3.14159265358979

> * separater: ehm no idea.

Of who or what ?

> * keyboard: QWERTY with EURO (858 thus), still not managed to get a
> euro-sign in DOS but likely depends on having KEYB loaded, which crashes

What's the ASCII code of EURO ??? BTW, EURO is
obsolete and crashing too :-D

> I think it's less ambiguous to just spell out the month

Acceptable idea.

> and use AM/PM time, e.g.:

Horrible :-(

> Tue 02 Aug 2011,  06:08pm

what's the benefit ? Please supply at least ONE argument ;-)

> And (POSIX?) Linux "date" seems to be similarly unambiguous:
> Tue Aug  2 18:09:06 CDT 2011

Horrible :-( (please supply code to sort such dates !!!)

What's wrong with:

"2011-Aug-02 Tue 18:09:06" ???

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-02 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Bernd Blaauw  wrote:
> Op 2-8-2011 14:05, dos386 schreef:
>
> I'd prefer a default of:
> * date: MMDD (Japanese notation, right?)
> * time: HHMMSS
> * number: nnn.nnn.nnn,xyz (european)
> * separater: ehm no idea.
> * keyboard: QWERTY with EURO (858 thus), still not managed to get a
> euro-sign in DOS but likely depends on having KEYB loaded, which crashes.
>
> Different options is fine, just the default maybe isn't ideal :)

I think it's less ambiguous to just spell out the month and use AM/PM
time, e.g.:

Tue 02 Aug 2011,  06:08pm

And (POSIX?) Linux "date" seems to be similarly unambiguous:

Tue Aug  2 18:09:06 CDT 2011

REXX (scripting language) has a lot of "date" (built-in function, aka
BIF) options, though I think only ANSI REXX (e.g. Regina) can convert
between 'em, and they all have different advantages / disadvantages:

http://www.kilowattsoftware.com/tutorial/rexx/bidate.htm

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-02 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Op 2-8-2011 14:05, dos386 schreef:
>> ... or all the other date formattings
>
> No point of existence ;-)
>
>> German dd.mm. hh:mm 1.000,00 for COUNTRY
>> than BIOS default US QWERTY) are totally different
>
> I prefer to keep things simple (QWERTY, "@" and "\" discoverable)
> and convenient (-MM-DD HH:MM:SS) - no need for messing
> up eveything. Anyone has a clue how many permutations of timestamps
> or keyboard exist at all ? In any case, I don't need more than ONE ;-)

I wonder how easy it is to define your own preferred set, and also if 
'no Country defined' should switch to current US-English behaviour, or 
to a perfect behaviour.

I'd prefer a default of:
* date: MMDD (Japanese notation, right?)
* time: HHMMSS
* number: nnn.nnn.nnn,xyz (european)
* separater: ehm no idea.
* keyboard: QWERTY with EURO (858 thus), still not managed to get a 
euro-sign in DOS but likely depends on having KEYB loaded, which crashes.

Different options is fine, just the default maybe isn't ideal :)

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-02 Thread e . auer

Hi dos386,

>> ... or all the other date formattings
>
> No point of existence ;-)

I hope zou do not think that about other countries as well...

>> German dd.mm. hh:mm 1.000,00 for COUNTRY
>> than BIOS default US QWERTY) are totally different
>
> I prefer to keep things simple (QWERTY, "@" and "\" discoverable)
> and convenient (-MM-DD HH:MM:SS) - no need for messing
> up eveything. Anyone has a clue how many permutations of timestamps
> or keyboard exist at all ? In any case, I don't need more than ONE 
> ;-)

Keyboard very many, date / time very few. I think your
preferred style is either "what the American default is
anyway" or maybe a small variant, if default has am/pm.

So I am sure you can find a setting with date and time
style of your taste in the kernel. And I am sure that
you need no drivers for keyboard or fonts, because you
already like the BIOS default settings for those :-)

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-02 Thread dos386
> ... or all the other date formattings

No point of existence ;-)

> German dd.mm. hh:mm 1.000,00 for COUNTRY
> than BIOS default US QWERTY) are totally different

I prefer to keep things simple (QWERTY, "@" and "\" discoverable)
and convenient (-MM-DD HH:MM:SS) - no need for messing
up eveything. Anyone has a clue how many permutations of timestamps
or keyboard exist at all ? In any case, I don't need more than ONE ;-)

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-08-01 Thread e . auer

Hi Bernd, Dos386,

> I'd like to see -MM-DD (with dashes) and without COUNTRY.

... or Japanese MMDD as Bernd mentioned ...

>> makes sorting files by date so much easier.
>
> :-)

...or all the other date formattings: You can just set your country
depending on your taste. As long as you do not use nlsfunc, nothing
will try to make your keyboard or font Japanese. Simply pick a place
where date, time and number formats match your taste, e.g. German
dd.mm. hh:mm 1.000,00 for COUNTRY even if your LANG setting for
strings, DISPLAY fonts (if any) and keyboard layout (if any other
than BIOS default US QWERTY) are totally different ;-)

Eric

PS: Note that COUNTRY also influences the "yes no characters" and
currency sign and a few other things... Some countries even have a
slightly specific collate order (e.g. how to sort accented chars).



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-30 Thread dos386
I'd like to see -MM-DD (with dashes) and without COUNTRY.

> makes sorting files by date so much easier.

:-)


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-30 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Op 30-7-2011 15:05, Zbigniew schreef:
>> Another one: all dates should be -MM-DD and times without the
>> silly "a" and "p"
>
> ...or could respect the convention:
> - when dash used as separator - date is -MM-DD
> - when dot - date format is DD.MM.
> - when slash - the format is MM/DD/
>
> Such way it could be more flexible

This is COUNTRY.SYS related, but maybe the /4 setting indeed should use 
modern settings. Japanese MMDD has always been my favourite, makes 
sorting files by date so much easier.


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-30 Thread Zbigniew
2011/7/30, dos386:

> Another one: all dates should be -MM-DD and times without the
> silly "a" and "p"

...or could respect the convention:
- when dash used as separator - date is -MM-DD
- when dot - date format is DD.MM.
- when slash - the format is MM/DD/

Such way it could be more flexible

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-30 Thread dos386
> intentionally, as far as I remember for mimicking MS style

EDR-DOS doesn't have this bug ;-)

> If MS COMMAND.COM for DOS didn't have a setting for 4-digit year

Another one: all dates should be -MM-DD and times without the
silly "a" and "p"



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-29 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Op 29-7-2011 13:22, Eric Auer schreef:
> That is not a bug, dos386. FreeCOM command.com DIR does this
> intentionally, as far as I remember for mimicking MS style,
> which in turn might be necessary for some older batch files.
>
> However, I understand your point, so maybe we could either
> make this configurable (maybe even dynamically, DIR settings
> in an environment variable already are supported anyway) or
> we could have a vote about what style is preferred ;-)

If MS COMMAND.COM for DOS didn't have a setting for 4-digit year 
display, it's simple to let the current "/4" setting also display free 
diskspace instead of empty stuff.

I'm surprised 4DOS doesn't seem to have a 4-digit year display (or I'm 
bad at finding it).

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-29 Thread Eric Auer

Hi for the third,

> IIRC I had reported this BUG some time ago ... if volume is
> empty, I want to see how much space for bloat I have ;-)

That is not a bug, dos386. FreeCOM command.com DIR does this
intentionally, as far as I remember for mimicking MS style,
which in turn might be necessary for some older batch files.

However, I understand your point, so maybe we could either
make this configurable (maybe even dynamically, DIR settings
in an environment variable already are supported anyway) or
we could have a vote about what style is preferred ;-)

Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-29 Thread dos386
IIRC I had reported this BUG some time ago ... if volume is
empty, I want to see how much space for bloat I have ;-)



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[Freedos-user] FreeCom: Wrong DIR behavior on empy disks.

2011-07-23 Thread Juan Castro
DIR command on a floppy disk with files:

C:\>dir a:
 O volume no drive A e FDOSFLOPPY
 O Numero de Serie do volume e 0F22-0808

 Diretorio de A:\

FDAUTO   BAT 1,009  07-24-2011 12:29a
FDCONFIG SYS   780  07-17-2011  3:38a
 2 arquivo(s)  1,789 bytes
 0 dir(s)   1,455,616 bytes livres
C:\>

DIR command on an empty floppy: ("Arquivo nao encontrado" = "File not
found")

C:\>dir a:
 O volume no drive A e FDOSFLOPPY
 O Numero de Serie do volume e 0F22-0808
Arquivo nao encontrado.
C:\>

What should have been shown:

C:\>dir a:
 O volume no drive A e FDOSFLOPPY
 O Numero de Serie do volume e 0F22-0808

 Diretorio de A:\

 0 arquivo(s)   0 bytes
 0 dir(s)   1,457,664 bytes livres
C:\>

Another thing: the alignment in the "occupied bytes" number is wrong; since
the Portuguese word "arquivo" is longer than "file", the spacing should have
been adjjusted accordingly.

Juan
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