Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Nick Warren wrote: Another thing that would be really great woudl be an equivalent of QBASIC. QBASIUC is a great old language, but I don't think there's an open source equivalent and if there was, it should be part of FreeDOS. I guess there's FreeBASIC, but it's a compielr, QBASIC was an interpreter. There are already the bwBASIC or Regina Rexx interpreters included with `fdfullcd.iso'. Robert Riebisch -- BTTR Software http://www.bttr-software.de/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hi Nick, Robert, Another thing that would be really great woudl be an equivalent of QBASIC... I guess there's FreeBASIC, but it's a compiler, QBASIC was an interpreter. There are already the bwBASIC or Regina Rexx interpreters included with `fdfullcd.iso'. We once made an attempt to add sound/graphics/... support to bwbasic, but there was not enough interest to keep that project going. I think FreeBasic.net is way better than bwbasic. The only good thing of the latter is that it runs on 8086. Maybe you could motivate the freebasic people to add an interpreter mode. Actually it might be possible to write a BASIC program that uses some eval(string) like calls for that? For now, what FreeBasic needs are DOS-experienced testers. Please grab your old collection of Basic sources and try how well they run in FreeBasic. I think it even has a behave more like qbasic compatibility mode. But you often need only few changes to port Qbasic sources to FreeBasic anyway :-). Please get FreeBasic 0.17b testing for DOS from http://www.freebasic.net/index.php/download and then unzip the daily updates from http://drv.nu/freebasic/dev/ on top of them. Much better than 0.16b stable but needs feedback before the daily builds can lead to a new stable version :-). Thanks for testing! Enjoy FreeBASIC :-). Eric - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Another thing that would be really great woudl be an equivalent of QBASIC. QBASIUC is a great old language, but I don't think there's an open source equivalent and if there was, it should be part of FreeDOS. I guess there's FreeBASIC, but it's a compielr, QBASIC was an interpreter. On 5/12/07, Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, I all! What should change with FreeDOS 2.0? Some ideas, I think, they have to be a must :-) *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. *Using JEMM as memory manager *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS *PythonD as modern script language *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) *No more 386- support I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. The distribution should contain less, but powerful programs. (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big problem still exists: a driver. So there should be a note at the installer, which points to FreeDOS Wiki or another site, where a good documentation exists ( about installing such a driver). And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Nick Warren wrote: You know what would be really awesome in FreeDOS? multitasking. There are no open source multitaskers for DOS. They used to have some programs that did that a long time ago, but they were all proprietary. When I say multitasking, I don't mean task switching like in MS DOSShell. Can this be done? If we're putting together a wishlist, I'd say a packet driver that works with PXE-booted machines so you avoid having to use the (huge - in low memory terms) MS network client to load some UNDI NDIS driver like 3Com's undis3c.dos and a NDIS-packet driver shim. This thought has been around for a while: http://wiki.fdos.org/Blog/Bernd and there's a commercial solution, emboot: http://www.emboot.com/ But as always, an open alternative is nicer. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
I would personaly use a small Linux Distro and many instances of DOSEMU. That way you have everything stable and well tested with a very good performance. IIRC there was such a thing: http://www.magma.com.ni/~jorge/lios/ It would be nice to have a modern port of that :) Alain Nick Warren escreveu: You know what would be really awesome in FreeDOS? multitasking. There are no open source multitaskers for DOS. They used to have some programs that did that a long time ago, but they were all proprietary. When I say multitasking, I don't mean task switching like in MS DOSShell. Can this be done? On 5/12/07, *Florian Xaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, I all! What should change with FreeDOS 2.0? Some ideas, I think, they have to be a must :-) *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. *Using JEMM as memory manager *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS *PythonD as modern script language *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) *No more 386- support I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. The distribution should contain less, but powerful programs. (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org http://freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big problem still exists: a driver. So there should be a note at the installer, which points to FreeDOS Wiki or another site, where a good documentation exists ( about installing such a driver). And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Freedos needs to remain backwards compatible with 8086 cpu. Perhaps, a protected mode 386/486 kernel can be made and allow user or real mode kernel to decide (autodetect) which to use at boot up. --chris http://nxdos.sourceforge.net/ Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:the idea of a modern OS called DOS. I am using all of new software/drivers which are available. If FreeDOS 1.1 or 2.0 will not include an enhanced configuration I will think of an own distribution. DOS stands for me: compatiblity of old and new software, modular design, possibility of 16-Bit, 32-Bit, real and protected mode. And of a very very fast and small operating system. - Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hi Japheth, Better to teach XCDROM/XDMA to handle S-ATA drives as well ;) Hm, thanks for the hint, it's appreciated! Such a driver already exists: GCDROM, licensed under GPL and based on the old GPLed XCDROM. A driver for S-ATA CDROM :-). As the original homepage is gone, I mirrored it on my page: http://www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~eric/stuff/soft/by-others/ Eric - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
tom ehlert wrote: where do I get POLINK ? It's part of http://www.smorgasbordet.com/pellesc/ Robert Riebisch -- BTTR Software http://www.bttr-software.de/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Moving a 16 Bit DOS program that uses far pointers *extensively* to a 32 bit world comes close to rewriting it (and redebugging it with a zillion crazy programs). Only if the 16-bit program has a very bad design! :) Sorry; I was talking about the kernel. Just try searching for MK_FP() Sorry, but I wasn't talking about benefits/costs at all. Then why invest time at all ? To repeat myself: it's just that replacing some real-mode code by protected-mode code won't change DOS' nature. that's certainly correct - as long as you keep all legacy stuff (SFT, JFT, LOL, ...) in place. Tom - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
You know what would be really awesome in FreeDOS? multitasking. There are no open source multitaskers for DOS. They used to have some programs that did that a long time ago, but they were all proprietary. When I say multitasking, I don't mean task switching like in MS DOSShell. Can this be done? On 5/12/07, Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, I all! What should change with FreeDOS 2.0? Some ideas, I think, they have to be a must :-) *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. *Using JEMM as memory manager *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS *PythonD as modern script language *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) *No more 386- support I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. The distribution should contain less, but powerful programs. (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big problem still exists: a driver. So there should be a note at the installer, which points to FreeDOS Wiki or another site, where a good documentation exists ( about installing such a driver). And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
We should really talk about internet with DOS more - it seems many people do use their old PC with DOS and Arachne to have a second surf PC around, so FreeDOS should make a statement that we do support that use of DOS, too. Definetely. And folder sharing with Windows Network also. Debian can access both internet and Windows Network by default. Yet, I don't find better default than MS LanMan's 'NET' command. This is good links to start with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBIOS_over_TCP/IP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_software --- Mikiya Matsuzaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
You would get more something like dosbox than something like dos ;-) Is this argument meant serious? Hopefully not, because it is not very convincing. Why should a protected-mode FAT driver make DOS change to a DOS emulator? I read some of such arguments in the past (not from you, Eric :-). Like this wouldn't be DOS anymore... or then it would be like Linux or I only want to have a MS-DOS replacement etc. I like the idea of a modern OS called DOS. I am using all of new software/drivers which are available. If FreeDOS 1.1 or 2.0 will not include an enhanced configuration I will think of an own distribution. DOS stands for me: compatiblity of old and new software, modular design, possibility of 16-Bit, 32-Bit, real and protected mode. And of a very very fast and small operating system. Bye -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hello Japheth, Dos is much more than a FAT driver Do you talk about the date/time functions? :) FAT code is a big part of kernels footprint, but certainly not the biggest part. Look into yhe kernel map. but a JEMMX plugin version of DOSLFN would be an idea... why should this be better than a full VFAT driver? AFAICS DOSLFN suffers from not being tightly integrated into the DOS FAT driver. that's right; but (as a wild guess) LFN integrated into the kernel shouldn't use more then ~5 K. no real problem - there's still space in the HMA. For example if you let FreeDOS move the list of lists to UMB or even HMA, you get, afair, 10 kB more low DOS RAM free, but get less compatibility. So a virtual kernel would have similar problems. Moving some known DOS data items away from conventional memory might be a problem, but why should moving the FAT code into extended memory give similiar problems? I cannot see those similiarities. Bart and I took quite some time to optimize kernels low memory usage. So basically all memory that is in low memory is there because it HAS to be there. You can move it to UMB, but (most of) this stuff *has* to be available to real mode access. Maybe you could save 1, 2, or 3 KB lower memory, but probably not more. Hardly worth the work that would have to be put into this move. Moving a 16 Bit DOS program that uses far pointers *extensively* to a 32 bit world comes close to rewriting it (and redebugging it with a zillion crazy programs). You would get more something like dosbox than something like dos ;-) Is this argument meant serious? YEP. would work most of the time. Hopefully not, because it is not very convincing. It's the other way around: moving the (Free)DOS kernel doesn't give you much of advantage. Most of it is in HMA anyway - and the HMA isn't used for anything else (we use the remaining memory for BUFFERS=) Why should a protected-mode FAT driver make DOS change to a DOS emulator? Not that this can't be done. But IMO it's not worth the effort. Better to teach XCDROM/XDMA to handle S-ATA drives as well ;) BTW: from the JEMM 5.60 I did't find JLOAD sources, what CL is needed (probably VC 4.0 or better) where do I get POLINK ? Tom - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
On 13 mei 2007, at 09:38, Florian Xaver wrote: *No more 386- support I don't like this. Wow, not so fast! The purpose of FreeDOS is to reproduce a MSDOS system on x86 CPUs... Go read Jim's manifesto ;-) Wasn't it the purpose of FreeDOS 1.0? What changed with 8086 code? I think nothing. Since FreeDOS 1.0, support for 8086 actually improved. A few executables were unnecessarily incompatible with 8086 and have been fixed through trivial changes to compilation/compression settings. Also I'm quite sure that there were real bugfixes for at least one 8086 compatible program. And of course there will be future bugfixes for programs that are currently 8086 compatible. Joris. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
On Sunday 13 May 2007 09:38, Florian Xaver wrote: why not? There could be a choice of standard configuration and enhanced configuration. HX Extender should be a must :-) Also FDAPM XDMA should be included in the enhanced config.sys. Yes, if you are talking about an enhanced conf, then I will agree. But by default (basic conf.), the user should get something similar to an MSDOS clone, without bells and whistles... File manager should be optional. Personally, I don't use such tools, I prefer to COPY / DEL and REN my files. Of course there should be at least 2-3 choices for file manager. Why optional? If it is installed, you need not use it. Don't like to have things I will never use :-P Command-line is enough for me, Yes, but new users like GUI, I think. I'm not sure there are much new users in FreeDOS... it's rather old MSDOS users which discovered a free alternative, and I think they are expecting to replace their MSDOS installation, not a desktop OS... Of course, a GUI should be available IF the user wants it (again, enhanced install?)... I think there should be 3 modes of installing FreeDOS: 1. Basic install = kernel + freecom + move/format/fdisk etc... The user get a clone of a MSDOS install - not more, not less. Of course things like FDAPM/XDMA should be included anyway. It's my prefered way of using FreeDOS :-) 2. Enhanced install - All the above + some GUIs / HX ext / maybe few games etc... 3. Custom installation - let the user to choose (check/uncheck) what packages he exactly wants to install. Mateusz Viste Fox - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hopefully I don't rant too much... I rarely post on the list at all but I think that there has been a trend recently to add features to FreeDOS but skip over the fact that it's supposed to reproduce DOS as faithfully as possible. I wasn't all that happy with FD 1.0 and still use my custom install of beta-9 rc5. --- Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, I all! (snip) *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. Why? I've had no problem with FreeCOM as it is what it's supposed to do: be a clone of COMMAND.COM. Bash should NOT be an option because this is DOS, if I wanted a *nix I'd use it instead of DOS. Plus, if people wanted bash they'd also need to install a bunch of *nix utilities to use it (since all bash scripts require ls, rm, etc. which are not, and should not be part of a default DOS installation IMO). *PythonD as modern script language Why Python and not Perl or any other scripting language? Should we give preference to one at all? DOS predates Python by long enough that I would just find it strange to see included by default. I'd expect something like BASIC or REXX as the scripting language for a DOS. If I wanted Python/Perl/etc. I would install it myself. Although, I find it strange that you'd suggest Python over REXX since you want 4DOS included which allows you to use REXX code in .BAT file. *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) So long as they reproduce the features of the original default editors for DOS they shouldn't be that bad but the current ones are fine. *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) I don't like this idea since I don't use either. If a user wants a file manager they'd install one that they'd like which might not be either of those. No one expects DOS to come with a file manager and I think giving preference to one project over another isn't a good thing. *No more 386- support This I think is a horrible idea since the whole purpose of FreeDOS is to have an open-source clone of DOS that can work on old machines. I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. The distribution should contain less, but powerful programs. (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. I do agree here and think that FreeDOS is straying too much from DOS feature wise while leaving certain compatibility holes open. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big problem still exists: a driver. So there should be a note at the installer, which points to FreeDOS Wiki or another site, where a good documentation exists ( about installing such a driver). What do you mean by a driver? Also, while I love Arachne, this runs counter to what you said above with wanting FreeDOS to not be a large collection of free DOS programs. And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Why not Windows? :-) Having a default GUI is bad since there are competing projects and, again, I dislike giving preference to one project over another when the projects are equal. Plus, DOS didn't come with a GUI and people used to pay for different ones. Also, I would not choose Ozone (although it's nice) for a DOS GUI anyways (I personally prefer OpenGEM). Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
While FreeDOS isn't something like Gentoo (or Linux at all), I'd love to have some kind of build system so we ensure the 8086 compatibility. Right now all programs have to be compiled by their own makefiles (and compilers, linkers etc), and I got no idea on how to make it like a batch job, some kind of master script for compiling (and compressing) all programs for a certain platform. The suggestion of 4DOS seems fine as both usable shell, and as a way to have additional functionality during installation time (for example creating diskettes from the CD). On the other hand, 4DOS is worthless for diskettes for example due to size of its binary (200KB?) and requiring swapping to XMS, EMS or disk. Once I can get my hands on VmWare Workstation 6 I'll do some DOS-related stuff again, provided I dont lack time. It's still a nice project and it would be a shame if it was stalled at the magic 1.0 label. Bernd - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hi Flox! Talking about FreeDOS 2.0, there will hopefully be 1.1 early this summer, as many packages have been updated since we released 1.0, and some issues in 1.0 should be fine tuned anyway :-). *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. I still think FreeCOM is the better default, has most compatibility. But the others should certainly be included. As for example ReginaRexx and Perl for DOS and FreeBasic.net :-). *Using JEMM as memory manager Very good idea. And JEMMX as option - it has plugins, one might eventually write a virtual SB16 to AC97 hardware plugin for that plugin system. Another candidate might be DISPLAY, as that uses quite a bit of RAM. *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS I would just include it, but would not load any DOS extender as TSR by default. *PythonD as modern script language Why not... *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) Maybe not as default - SETEDIT is really big - but SETEDIT should nevertheless be INSTALLED by default. And/or FED. *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) To be more exact: At least one file manager and GUI should be part of a recommended install. *No more 386- support It does not make much difference to compile most apps for 8086, so I would only optimize those for 386+ where you get a real gain from 32bit and/or protected mode usage. Dosfsck and the caches are good examples of 386+ modules. While only few people use pre-386 CPU, I still prefer to keep using FreeDOS as such useable on ancient PC. Of course you can always say PC XT users can use FreeDOS 1.0... I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. Agreed, for example bootablecd.de has a separate games CD anyway, and there are piles and piles of freeware, shareware and abandonware for DOS. It is certainly not our mission to throw all those in some ISO or anything. Our distro should fit on 1 CDROM, at most a few 100 MB installed, with mostly open source and other very free software. Possible with 1.0, when you skip the few largest packages, you get a 100 MB DOS. than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. I see no problem in including 2-3 file managers, but before we would include 10, we should better vote for the 2-5 best. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big We should really talk about internet with DOS more - it seems many people do use their old PC with DOS and Arachne to have a second surf PC around, so FreeDOS should make a statement that we do support that use of DOS, too. Eric - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hi Jim, I all! What should change with FreeDOS 2.0? Some ideas, I think, they have to be a must :-) *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. *Using JEMM as memory manager *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS *PythonD as modern script language *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) *No more 386- support I also think, that it shouldn't be a BIG collection of all free DOS programs. The distribution should contain less, but powerful programs. (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. Network: Latest Arachne (a much more advanced version should be distributed soon) is a ''must, also tools like WGET. And one big problem still exists: a driver. So there should be a note at the installer, which points to FreeDOS Wiki or another site, where a good documentation exists ( about installing such a driver). And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
http://sourceforge.net/projects/doszip/ evolves... :-) I don't like it. First time I tried it it looked ok...but there are much better file managers out there. *No more 386- support Most changes, maybe all, which has been made, are for 386+ computers. So one can use FreeDOS 1.0. I don't like this idea, because DOS was made for 808x CPUs. So FreeDOS should run on these CPUs too. That doesn't mean, that you can't distribute optimized binaries for later CPUs. And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Every OS needs a GUI. Also if you don't use it :-) Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Florian Xaver wrote: Hi Jim, I all! What should change with FreeDOS 2.0? Some ideas, I think, they have to be a must :-) snip *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) FreeDOS Edlin can support large files! snip Gregory Pietsch - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
Hi guys, IMHO, we should list small and simple things to do first, Specially because it is faster and we have not enough manpower :( while we all want many things, we have to take care of our dreams otherwise we can stall just like gnu Hurd, which is a *really* amazing project but is almost dead :( Also, we already did the brainstorm a long time ago just before FreeDOS 1.0 release, so, let's merger Jim's/Blair's/others doc and take small and simple things and do it, step by step, I know sometimes we just want to work on our own projects, because they are funny for us I mean, our own projects are funny for us because they are interesting for us, but would be possible other developers join some project which needs more help? I hope it helps :) Regards and Best Wishes, Geraldo ps: Eric released devload 3.18 and upx 3.0 was release sometime ago but just noticed today :( On 12/05/07, Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://sourceforge.net/projects/doszip/ evolves... :-) I don't like it. First time I tried it it looked ok...but there are much better file managers out there. *No more 386- support Most changes, maybe all, which has been made, are for 386+ computers. So one can use FreeDOS 1.0. I don't like this idea, because DOS was made for 808x CPUs. So FreeDOS should run on these CPUs too. That doesn't mean, that you can't distribute optimized binaries for later CPUs. And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Every OS needs a GUI. Also if you don't use it :-) Bye Flo -- It is true that no one can essentially cultivate exact science without understanding the mathematics of that science. But we are not to suppose that the calculations and equations that mathematicians find so useful constitute the whole of mathematics. The calculus is but a part of mathematics. (James Clerk Maxwell) Using Arachne, the GPL Web Browser/Suite - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: geraldo-netto icq: 145-061-456 mobile: +55 11 8949-4757 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] On to FreeDOS 2.0...
On Saturday 12 May 2007 20:11, Florian Xaver wrote: Hi Jim, I all! Hi! *Using 4DOS as standard command tool, and Bash or freecom as choice. 4DOS is okay, but I would prefer to have Freecom by default, and the choice to switch to bash/4DOS, because Freecom is the most similar to MSDOS COMMAND.COM.. *Using JEMM as memory manager Good point here. JEMM is the natural evolution of Michael's EMM386, so it should be included as default. *Using HX Extender Co to support Windows programs in DOS HX Extender in a default instalation? I would say no... it should be rather available as an optional package. *PythonD as modern script language For me, batch is just okay :) *Using an Editor which supports large files (like FED or SETEDIT) The MS-EDIT from W98 is the best editor I've seen so far. To bad there aren't any free clone of it :( *One standard file manager (my choice would be FW or NDN) File manager should be optional. Personally, I don't use such tools, I prefer to COPY / DEL and REN my files. Of course there should be at least 2-3 choices for file manager. *No more 386- support Wow, not so fast! The purpose of FreeDOS is to reproduce a MSDOS system on x86 CPUs... Go read Jim's manifesto ;-) (Download via WGET for additional tools could be possible.) If there are more than one (like file managers) we could make a poll at freedos.org where user and developer can choose them. I definetely agree with that! And the GUI? I would say OZONE :-)) Even with the drag'n'drop-bug it has many features and developing of programs isn't difficult. Command-line is enough for me, Mateusz Viste - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
