[Freesurfer] Question about Intracranial Volume
Dear FreeSurfers, I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this? Thanks in advance, Pietro -- Pietro De Rossi, MD - Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com ___ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
Re: [Freesurfer] Question about Intracranial Volume
Hi Pietro ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all) cheers Bruce On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote: Dear FreeSurfers, I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this? Thanks in advance, Pietro -- Pietro De Rossi, MD - Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com ___ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
Re: [Freesurfer] Question about Intracranial Volume
Thanks a lot Bruce. Cheers 2016-01-11 14:43 GMT+01:00 Bruce Fischl : > Hi Pietro > > ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite > his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable > thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different > hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as > opposed to whether atrophy exists at all) > > cheers > Bruce > > > > On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote: > > Dear FreeSurfers, >> I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after >> some reviewers' comments. >> On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures >> for >> whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's >> opinion >> ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. >> However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find >> any... >> Is there any evidence for this? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Pietro >> >> -- >> Pietro De Rossi, MD >> - >> Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, >> Dipartimento >> NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale >> Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma >> >> NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), >> School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea >> Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy >> >> Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e >> Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 >> Roma >> >> Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 >> >> Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 >> >> web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com >> >> > ___ > Freesurfer mailing list > Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu > https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer > > > The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it > is > addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the > e-mail > contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance > HelpLine at > http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in > error > but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and > properly > dispose of the e-mail. > > -- Pietro De Rossi, MD - Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com ___ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
Re: [Freesurfer] Question about Intracranial Volume
Hi Pietro, One additional thing to consider is that the ICV (eTIV) is entirely dependent on the Talairach transform. Frequently, the accuracy of Talairach transform isn¹t explicitly checked by users, because the surfaces, aseg, etc can be accurate even if the Talairach transform isn¹t. cheers, -MH -- Michael Harms, Ph.D. --- Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders Washington University School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 660 South Euclid Ave.Tel: 314-747-6173 St. Louis, MO 63110Email: mha...@wustl.edu On 1/11/16, 7:43 AM, "freesurfer-boun...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of Bruce Fischl" wrote: Hi Pietro ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all) cheers Bruce On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote: > Dear FreeSurfers, > I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia >after > some reviewers' comments. > On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures >for > whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's >opinion > ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. > However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find > any... > Is there any evidence for this? > > Thanks in advance, > > Pietro > > -- > Pietro De Rossi, MD > - > Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, >Dipartimento > NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale > Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma > > NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), > School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant¹Andrea > Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy > > Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e > Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 > Roma > > Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 > > Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 > > web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com > The materials in this message are private and may contain Protected Healthcare Information or other information of a sensitive nature. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender via telephone or return mail. ___ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
Re: [Freesurfer] Question about Intracranial Volume
I see. This is very helpful. Thanks 2016-01-11 15:15 GMT+01:00 Harms, Michael : > > Hi Pietro, > One additional thing to consider is that the ICV (eTIV) is entirely > dependent on the Talairach transform. Frequently, the accuracy of > Talairach transform isn¹t explicitly checked by users, because the > surfaces, aseg, etc can be accurate even if the Talairach transform isn¹t. > > cheers, > -MH > > -- > Michael Harms, Ph.D. > > --- > Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders > Washington University School of Medicine > Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 > 660 South Euclid Ave.Tel: 314-747-6173 > St. Louis, MO 63110Email: mha...@wustl.edu > > > > > On 1/11/16, 7:43 AM, "freesurfer-boun...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of > Bruce Fischl" fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> wrote: > > Hi Pietro > > ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite > his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable > thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different > hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as > opposed to whether atrophy exists at all) > > cheers > Bruce > > > On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote: > > > Dear FreeSurfers, > > I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia > >after > > some reviewers' comments. > > On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures > >for > > whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's > >opinion > > ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. > > However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find > > any... > > Is there any evidence for this? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Pietro > > > > -- > > Pietro De Rossi, MD > > - > > Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, > >Dipartimento > > NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale > > Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma > > > > NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), > > School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant¹Andrea > > Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy > > > > Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e > > Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 > > Roma > > > > Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 > > > > Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 > > > > web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com > > > > > > The materials in this message are private and may contain Protected > Healthcare Information or other information of a sensitive nature. If you > are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized use, > disclosure, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents > of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email > in error, please immediately notify the sender via telephone or return mail. > > ___ > Freesurfer mailing list > Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu > https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer > > > The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it > is > addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the > e-mail > contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance > HelpLine at > http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in > error > but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and > properly > dispose of the e-mail. > > -- Pietro De Rossi, MD - Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358 Fax +39 (0)6 90280774 web: http://www.neuropsichiatrialab.com ___ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
