[Freevo-users] Speed up ripping?
In my effort to get much of my CD collection onto my Freevo, I've started trying to rip CDs, only to discover that my 32x CD-Rom drive is ripping at 1x speed. Obviously I'd like to speed this up. I've tried tweaking hdparm to turn on DMA, as well as modifying the command line a bit to cdparanoia, but none of it seems to be making much difference. Anything obvious I'm missing? --VPutz --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Freevo-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
RE: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping?
nope. an audio CD is not formatted like a data CD so therefore it must be read in a linear fashon carefully. there is no way to rip an audio CD at your drive's read speed. although some older drives (specifically a old 8X plextor I have) seem to rip from an audio CD much faster than any newer cd or dvd drive. here's a reason stolen fro mthe cdparanoia FAQ. Jitter is a term used for the inherent uncertaintly in most CD-ROM units, which is caused by the way audio is stored on a CD. Although one logical block on a CD takes up 2352 bytes, the amount of data stored in the block varies. For a data block, 2052 bytes are actual data, and the remaining 300 bytes are information used to accurately find the block. For audio, however, all 2352 bytes contain audio data -- there is no positioning information returned in the block read. When CDs first came out, they were used for audio, and it didn't matter if a CD player got within +/- 1/75 of a second of the intended start position. After it started, as long as the player kept reading, it could accurately read the data -- the problem only came about when initially seeking the start position. Jitter correction is the process of trying to compensate for jitter in software. Generally, it involves using overlapping reads, and attempting to match the end of one read with the beginning of the next, so that there are no gaps in the data read. These gaps cause clicks and pops in the resulting WAV or MP3 file produced. For instance, the program might begin reading a track at block 1000 and read 27 blocks total. On the next read, it would issue a read command starting at 1024, and would try to match the end of the first read in the beginning of the second read. Once it finds a match, it would cut off the beginning of the second read, and use only the part after the match. In this way, you can eliminate the clicks and pops. Most of the time the On Error jitter correction mode will produce good results. However, if you still get clicks and pops using this setting, try using the Always setting. Some (higher-end) drives support a feature known as Stream is Accurate -- this means that consecutive reads are guaranteed to start where the last one left off. Basically, be patient as ripping audio is a slow process. Also newer CD's are being made with intentional errors and faults to further slow ripping or even thwart a ripping process. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Putz Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? In my effort to get much of my CD collection onto my Freevo, I've started trying to rip CDs, only to discover that my 32x CD-Rom drive is ripping at 1x speed. Obviously I'd like to speed this up. I've tried tweaking hdparm to turn on DMA, as well as modifying the command line a bit to cdparanoia, but none of it seems to be making much difference. Anything obvious I'm missing? --VPutz --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Freevo-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Freevo-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
RE: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping?
here's an even better explination also stolen from the cdparanoia website. The audio CD is not a random access format. It can only be played from some starting point in sequence until it is done, like a vinyl LP. Unlike a data CD, there are no synchronization or positioning headers in the audio data (a CD, audio or data, uses 2352 byte sectors. In a data CD, 304 bytes of each sector is used for header, sync and error correction. An audio CD uses all 2352 bytes for data). The audio CD *does* have a continuous fragmented subchannel, but this is only good for seeking +/-1 second (or 75 sectors or ~176kB) of the desired area, as per the SCSI spec. When the CD is being played as audio, it is not only moving at 1x, the drive is keeping the media data rate (the spin speed) exactly locked to playback speed. Pick up a portable CD player while it's playing and rotate it 90 degrees. Chances are it will skip; you disturbed this delicate balance. In addition, a player is never distracted from what it's doing... it has nothing else taking up its time. Now add a non-realtime, (relatively) high-latency, multitasking kernel into the mess; it's like picking up the player and constantly shaking it. CDROM drives generally assume that any sort of DAE will be linear and throw a readahead buffer at the task. However, the OS is reading the data as broken up, seperated read requests. The drive is doing readahead buffering and attempting to store additional data as it comes in off media while it waits for the OS to get around to reading previous blocks. Seeing as how, at 36x, data is coming in at 6.2MB/second, and each read is only 13 sectors or ~30k (due to DMA restrictions), one has to get off 208 read requests a second, minimum without any interruption, to avoid skipping. A single swap to disc or flush of filesystem cache by the OS will generally result in loss of streaming, assuming the drive is working flawlessly. Oh, and virtually no PC on earth has that kind of I/O throughput; a Sun Enterprise server might, but a PC does not. Most don't come within a factor of five, assuming perfect realtime behavior. To keep piling on the difficulties, faster drives are often prone to vibration and alignment problems; some are total fiascos. They lose streaming *constantly* even without being interrupted. Philips determined 15 years ago that the CD could only be spun up to 50-60x until the physical CD (made of polycarbonate) would deform from centripetal force badly enough to become unreadable. Today's players are pushing physics to the limit. Few do so terribly reliably. Note that CD 'playback speed' is an excellent example of advertisers making numbers lie for them. A 36x cdrom is generally not spinning at 36x a normal drive's speed. As a 1x drive is adjusting velocity depending on the access's distance from the hub, a 36x drive is probably using a constant angular velocity across the whole surface such that it gets 36x max at the edge. Thus it's actually spinning slower, assuming the '36x' isn't a complete lie, as it is on some drives. Because audio discs have no headers in the data to assist in picking up where things got lost, most drives will just guess. This doesn't even *begin* to get into stupid firmware bugs. Even Plextors have occasionally had DAE bugs (although in every case, Plextor has fixed the bug *and* replaced/repaired drives for free). Cheaper drives are often complete basket cases. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Putz Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? In my effort to get much of my CD collection onto my Freevo, I've started trying to rip CDs, only to discover that my 32x CD-Rom drive is ripping at 1x speed. Obviously I'd like to speed this up. I've tried tweaking hdparm to turn on DMA, as well as modifying the command line a bit to cdparanoia, but none of it seems to be making much difference. Anything obvious I'm missing? --VPutz --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Freevo-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html ___ Freevo-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freevo-users
Re: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping?
Like VPutz, I was disappointed (my only Freevo disappointment thus far!) in the ripping speed through Freevo. As such I still rip using my Windoze box because it rips at 3x to 25x depending on the quality settings I use. So, perhaps I am being dense about something here, but how is it that MusicMatch Jukebox and plenty of other ripping tools rip cds at 3x and higher? You explanation seems to say that this behavior is not good and will lead to poor recordings. I have not found that to be the case. Like I said, perhaps I am just missing something, and if so, please enlighten me! Thanks, Davin - Original Message - From: Gray, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: RE: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? here's an even better explination also stolen from the cdparanoia website. The audio CD is not a random access format. It can only be played from some starting point in sequence until it is done, like a vinyl LP. Unlike a data CD, there are no synchronization or positioning headers in the audio data (a CD, audio or data, uses 2352 byte sectors. In a data CD, 304 bytes of each sector is used for header, sync and error correction. An audio CD uses all 2352 bytes for data). The audio CD *does* have a continuous fragmented subchannel, but this is only good for seeking +/-1 second (or 75 sectors or ~176kB) of the desired area, as per the SCSI spec. When the CD is being played as audio, it is not only moving at 1x, the drive is keeping the media data rate (the spin speed) exactly locked to playback speed. Pick up a portable CD player while it's playing and rotate it 90 degrees. Chances are it will skip; you disturbed this delicate balance. In addition, a player is never distracted from what it's doing... it has nothing else taking up its time. Now add a non-realtime, (relatively) high-latency, multitasking kernel into the mess; it's like picking up the player and constantly shaking it. CDROM drives generally assume that any sort of DAE will be linear and throw a readahead buffer at the task. However, the OS is reading the data as broken up, seperated read requests. The drive is doing readahead buffering and attempting to store additional data as it comes in off media while it waits for the OS to get around to reading previous blocks. Seeing as how, at 36x, data is coming in at 6.2MB/second, and each read is only 13 sectors or ~30k (due to DMA restrictions), one has to get off 208 read requests a second, minimum without any interruption, to avoid skipping. A single swap to disc or flush of filesystem cache by the OS will generally result in loss of streaming, assuming the drive is working flawlessly. Oh, and virtually no PC on earth has that kind of I/O throughput; a Sun Enterprise server might, but a PC does not. Most don't come within a factor of five, assuming perfect realtime behavior. To keep piling on the difficulties, faster drives are often prone to vibration and alignment problems; some are total fiascos. They lose streaming *constantly* even without being interrupted. Philips determined 15 years ago that the CD could only be spun up to 50-60x until the physical CD (made of polycarbonate) would deform from centripetal force badly enough to become unreadable. Today's players are pushing physics to the limit. Few do so terribly reliably. Note that CD 'playback speed' is an excellent example of advertisers making numbers lie for them. A 36x cdrom is generally not spinning at 36x a normal drive's speed. As a 1x drive is adjusting velocity depending on the access's distance from the hub, a 36x drive is probably using a constant angular velocity across the whole surface such that it gets 36x max at the edge. Thus it's actually spinning slower, assuming the '36x' isn't a complete lie, as it is on some drives. Because audio discs have no headers in the data to assist in picking up where things got lost, most drives will just guess. This doesn't even *begin* to get into stupid firmware bugs. Even Plextors have occasionally had DAE bugs (although in every case, Plextor has fixed the bug *and* replaced/repaired drives for free). Cheaper drives are often complete basket cases. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Putz Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? In my effort to get much of my CD collection onto my Freevo, I've started trying to rip CDs, only to discover that my 32x CD-Rom drive is ripping at 1x speed. Obviously I'd like to speed this up. I've tried tweaking hdparm to turn on DMA, as well as modifying the command line a bit to cdparanoia, but none of it seems to be making much difference. Anything obvious I'm missing? --VPutz --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software
RE: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping?
many of those apps sacrifice audio quality for speed. I can rip at 4x-8x if I use cdda2wav which simply start's the stream and accepts any errors from the drive. cdparanoia is making sure you get a 100% accurate copy of the audio. if you don't care about quality and want speed you can switch off all quality settings in cdparanoia (see their man page or website for info) and get a speed increase. all I know is that cdparanoia and lame with the -q0 setting produces mp3's that make audiocatylist and the other high-end mp3 encode/rippers sound pretty bad.. reading the information pages on the actual tools will enlighten even more. I suggest googling about cd ripping and/or cdparanoia. also, many time's it's the fault of the drive. I have a brand new 52X drive that rips at 0.4X or worse all the time, while a old and beat up 4X CD drive here at work rips at 2X all the time.. Swap CD drives before blaming the software... your Win-box may have a better drive. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Davin Desborough Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? Like VPutz, I was disappointed (my only Freevo disappointment thus far!) in the ripping speed through Freevo. As such I still rip using my Windoze box because it rips at 3x to 25x depending on the quality settings I use. So, perhaps I am being dense about something here, but how is it that MusicMatch Jukebox and plenty of other ripping tools rip cds at 3x and higher? You explanation seems to say that this behavior is not good and will lead to poor recordings. I have not found that to be the case. Like I said, perhaps I am just missing something, and if so, please enlighten me! Thanks, Davin - Original Message - From: Gray, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: RE: [Freevo-users] Speed up ripping? here's an even better explination also stolen from the cdparanoia website. The audio CD is not a random access format. It can only be played from some starting point in sequence until it is done, like a vinyl LP. Unlike a data CD, there are no synchronization or positioning headers in the audio data (a CD, audio or data, uses 2352 byte sectors. In a data CD, 304 bytes of each sector is used for header, sync and error correction. An audio CD uses all 2352 bytes for data). The audio CD *does* have a continuous fragmented subchannel, but this is only good for seeking +/-1 second (or 75 sectors or ~176kB) of the desired area, as per the SCSI spec. When the CD is being played as audio, it is not only moving at 1x, the drive is keeping the media data rate (the spin speed) exactly locked to playback speed. Pick up a portable CD player while it's playing and rotate it 90 degrees. Chances are it will skip; you disturbed this delicate balance. In addition, a player is never distracted from what it's doing... it has nothing else taking up its time. Now add a non-realtime, (relatively) high-latency, multitasking kernel into the mess; it's like picking up the player and constantly shaking it. CDROM drives generally assume that any sort of DAE will be linear and throw a readahead buffer at the task. However, the OS is reading the data as broken up, seperated read requests. The drive is doing readahead buffering and attempting to store additional data as it comes in off media while it waits for the OS to get around to reading previous blocks. Seeing as how, at 36x, data is coming in at 6.2MB/second, and each read is only 13 sectors or ~30k (due to DMA restrictions), one has to get off 208 read requests a second, minimum without any interruption, to avoid skipping. A single swap to disc or flush of filesystem cache by the OS will generally result in loss of streaming, assuming the drive is working flawlessly. Oh, and virtually no PC on earth has that kind of I/O throughput; a Sun Enterprise server might, but a PC does not. Most don't come within a factor of five, assuming perfect realtime behavior. To keep piling on the difficulties, faster drives are often prone to vibration and alignment problems; some are total fiascos. They lose streaming *constantly* even without being interrupted. Philips determined 15 years ago that the CD could only be spun up to 50-60x until the physical CD (made of polycarbonate) would deform from centripetal force badly enough to become unreadable. Today's players are pushing physics to the limit. Few do so terribly reliably. Note that CD 'playback speed' is an excellent example of advertisers making numbers lie for them. A 36x cdrom is generally not spinning at 36x a normal drive's speed. As a 1x drive is adjusting velocity depending on the access's distance from the hub, a 36x drive is probably using a constant angular velocity across the whole surface such that it gets 36x max at the edge. Thus it's
