Re: [FRIAM] PRISM/AP kerfluffle, etc
On Thu, 2013-06-13 at 17:09 -0400, mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: However, I think many people do have impossible and unrealistic security expectations, and if you ask a lot of them (including me) on 9/12/2001 what would be appropriate, systematic cloud server intercepts and data mining wouldn't have even made a ripple in the water for me. So there's a alternative line of argumentation too that just isn't from today's batch of news. And it's not _merely_ the we live in a post-911 world rhetoric, either. There's a deeper argument that we really _do_ want the NSA to stay ahead of the best state-funded and independent hackers all over the universe. Even those of us who claim to dislike being spied upon by our own government tend to ooh and aah when they see hints of the fantastic technologies developed by agencies like the NSA. Anyone who likes James Bond, Mission Impossible, GI Joe, CSI, Person of Interest, etc. should admit that up front. The fact that the NSA is building entire data centers devoted to exploring more occult network patterns is fscking fantastic. And, to an extent, they'd be stupid to show their hand every time they came up with a new algorithm that worked ... and we vassals would be stupid to _want_ them to do so. But the real mistake is the loss of the mystique. Secret work used to, and still should, carry that I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you romanticism. In our new age of lie like you mean it, with no hint-hint nudge-nudge know-what-I-mean know-what-I-mean, we've lost the deep, rich, language that allows us to know they're spying on us without knowing all the details. I'm a big fan of open-* (open source, open data, open access, etc). But there is a forcing toward banality that comes with it ... a dumbing down to a least common denominator. We've become so literal, it's kinda sad. We can't all be the cool kids. Some of us have to be left out, bullied and victimized by them. Some of us have to be the pretenders who claim to know things they don't actually know. Etc. And some of us have to bear the burden of being the dork trapped in the cool kid clique (as Snowden wants us to believe he was). Without such a class hierarchy, our language becomes robotic and lifeless. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella I have come undone FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Obama on NSA Surveillance
On Thu, 2013-06-13 at 09:37 +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote: Is the problem of surveillance to find the right tradeoff between privacy and security, as president Obama says? What do you think? No. That's a false dichotomy. I think what's really happening is the ongoing negotiation between distributed versus centralized control. e.g. In my city, most of the citizens are in favor of the photo radar van. I am not. Despite my objections, however, I have to admit that I know the Chief of Police, personally. I know the Sheriff. I know some of the city councilors and sporadically meet the mayor for pints. This access gives me a sense of locality to the surveillance. It feels much less like a passel of morlocks spying on us eloi and more like me spying on myself, or us spying on ourselves. The problem of the surveillance state (or any accusations against the state) lies in the otherness of the state. If you trust the representative democracy to be what it claims to be, then that mitigates against the feeling that _they_ are spying on _us_. It makes it feel more like _we_ are spying on _us_ ... And proprioception is a healthy part of any organism. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella The moon crashed into the desert FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Obama on NSA Surveillance
Glen, Your arguments are very considered, deliberate - even careful - and polite. However, let me pile on with this screed: I thought that the kind of general governmental overreach that we are talking about here was the reason we took on the USSR as an enemy during the 1950s+ (not to mention Viet Nam +). Didn't we unconditionally denounce the commies because of it? Wasn't that kind of government the reason we were supposed not to like the commies? Didn't we (humans) almost bombed ourselves out of existence - and take the planet with us - ultimately because we didn't like it? Wasn't our national identity arrayed against that kind of totalitarian behavior? Didn't we scribe a range of artworks (e.g. Orwell) against it in our culture? When Rand Paul and the ACLU agree on a topic, something is up. What was that famous quote about security vs liberty issued by Thomas Jefferson? Ok, back to your civilized discussion now. Grant On 6/14/13 6:02 AM, glen wrote: On Thu, 2013-06-13 at 09:37 +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote: Is the problem of surveillance to find the right tradeoff between privacy and security, as president Obama says? What do you think? No. That's a false dichotomy. I think what's really happening is the ongoing negotiation between distributed versus centralized control. e.g. In my city, most of the citizens are in favor of the photo radar van. I am not. Despite my objections, however, I have to admit that I know the Chief of Police, personally. I know the Sheriff. I know some of the city councilors and sporadically meet the mayor for pints. This access gives me a sense of locality to the surveillance. It feels much less like a passel of morlocks spying on us eloi and more like me spying on myself, or us spying on ourselves. The problem of the surveillance state (or any accusations against the state) lies in the otherness of the state. If you trust the representative democracy to be what it claims to be, then that mitigates against the feeling that _they_ are spying on _us_. It makes it feel more like _we_ are spying on _us_ ... And proprioception is a healthy part of any organism. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] pyrocumulus
Here's a pyrocumulus over the Silver fire estimated at 6-7 miles (31-37 thousand feet), though I don't know how he worked out the angles from Wisconsin. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=81402src=eorss-nh -- rec -- FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] pyrocumulus
Shadow and sun angle? IR image? Ray Parks From: Roger Critchlow [mailto:r...@elf.org] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:19 AM Mountain Standard Time To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Friam@redfish.com Subject: [EXTERNAL] [FRIAM] pyrocumulus Here's a pyrocumulus over the Silver fire estimated at 6-7 miles (31-37 thousand feet), though I don't know how he worked out the angles from Wisconsin. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=81402src=eorss-nh -- rec -- FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] the samsung galaxy s4.
*Chris berman voice*: It. Will Go. All The. Way. So yeah- steeling the american football theme liberally: It's got a kick arse O-line in terms of what counts for me- and is looking to be a super bowl contender. Based on my usage from one day- mine needs to live on a stationary bike though so it can it can get it's endurance up. Short of that: Anyone have experience extended batteries and can recomend a man-you-facture? There's some contenders on that big-box-store that starts with an A- on the leaderbord of those seems to be zerolemmons offering. Feedback wanted. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
