Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Nick Thompson]

All—

 

If you want to find the Dylan Roof key on your own emotional piano, think about 
the last time you indulged yourself in road rage.  According to one kind of 
evolutionary psychology, road rage is an instance of "altruistic punishment".  
Altruistic punishment is selected at the group level.  When in that groove, we 
are so possessed that we are willing to risk our own lives to support the norms 
of our perceived in-group.  

 

Altruistic rage is by far the most dangerous emotion we experience.  Not how 
Trump works tirelessly to create the conditions that will foster it.  Every 
genocide is preceded by “conditioning” to suppose that it is our highest duty 
to defend our values against those who do not share them. 

Nick Thompson

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Vladimyr Burachynsky
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:59 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

 

Glen,

 

I think Robert Wall is nudging close to an idea that he failed to adequately 
clarify but you may have nailed it while trying to deny it (this I call a 
backhanded strike). Last week there was a strange article about groups of 
people having the same memory that have no contact with each other. That shared 
memory was in fact  demonstrably false. It was regarding a misperceived memory 
of a TV show called Shazaam and some comedian called Sinbad... My mind retains 
utter garbage sometimes.

 

I never saw it but then it never actually happened. The investigators explained 
that so many of the false memory components overlapped reality that the 
subjects truly believed some occurrence that was categorically disproved. So a 
society may well share memories of fictional events and act on delusions ie 
mobs.

 

If an individual may fall into a groove then how else can mass insanity be 
better explained. I always recall that in history strange things happen on mass 
scale. For instance during the heated animosity between the Greeks and Latins a 
feud broke out over religious icons. West was Iconophilic and the east was 
Iconoclastic. The Latins were so pissed they assembled an armada in Rimini or 
Ravenna and sailed this monstrosity down the Adriatic to defend the faith. 
Somewhere between Brindisi and Corfu the greatest historical storm destroyed 
the entire fleet of ships sparing Byzantium a certain defeat. So Leo made a few 
compromises and things sort of settled down but then another group of serious 
iconoclasts  made trouble the Paulicians. Then the Muslims came along and the 
world is still fractured in many ways. It always struck me as the height of 
insanity to go to war over Symbols and I think Monty Python once made a skit 
out of crusaders and muslims beating the crap out of each other with religious 
banners and gilded reliquaries. While the armed knights and Saracens looked on 
in amazement. Whether this ever happened , I do not know, but can guess. 
Perhaps " the groove" has a darkside a suicidal aspect, such as the Battle of 
Gallipoli, as well as the neutral individual features we love to discuss openly.

 

I always suspected that Hatred is transmitted from mothers to children as is 
influenza propagation. I recall some very strange conversations between my 
German Mother and Ukrainian Aunt that bordered on the rabid hatred of mad dogs. 
Then they just continued serving Christmas dinner in total silence,  when the 
men returned to the dinner table. My Uncle a  devout Catholic and former 
Ukrainian Cavalry Officer would think nothing of Beheading Russians long after 
he was defeated in the 1920's. Indeed he was otherwise a rational Civil 
Engineer with a penchant for Botany but he hated anything that sounded 
affiliated with Russia or Eastern Orthodoxy. I could never tell the difference 
except for the slanted foot support on the crucifix. Hardly enough reason for 
bloodshed.

 

But Dylan Rouffe and Alexandre Bisonette slaughtered  defenseless congregations 
and showed no shame nor regret. They may be said to have been proud  of what 
they did. Anders Brevijk may well have been in a dark trench at the time of his 
methodical depredations of children, again no shame. No one mentions that that 
slaughter by a single man exceeded anything in the Old Testament perhaps a 
Cuiness World Record. Populism may well be a filthy outpouring of bottled up 
hatred. And the perverted demagogues revel in the delusion that they can 
manipulate it to their personal benefits.

 

It is not a welcome insight into human nature, I apologize for  disturbing the 
peace.

 

Well Canada is sending taxis to the border to rescue Somali's ignorant of our 
cold. Now our old ladies think the sky is falling because of a few refugees 
trying 

Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Tom Johnson]

"Wider community support" could mean, "Are you prepared to hide people in
your basement for an extended period of time?"



Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Society of Professional Journalists 
*Check out It's The People's Data
*
http://www.jtjohnson.com   t...@jtjohnson.com


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Merle Lefkoff 
wrote:

> Nick, I'm not sure what you mean by a "wider community."  Do you mean
> those who just blah blah and sit on their asses and not take action to
> respond to what's happening?  The Council chambers were packed last
> night--standing room only, and hundreds of people standing for hours
> outside the Council watching on t.v. what was going on inside.  The wider
> activist community were all there.
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:
>
>> Merle,
>>
>>
>>
>> Hence my suggestion that the City may need support from a wider community
>> sometime in the near future.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
>> Lefkoff
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:19 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep.  He's a comer.  Check all the boxes:  young, handsome, Hispanic,
>> gay, ambitious.  I was at the City Council meeting last night about the
>> Sanctuary City resolutions.  "Sanctuary City" doesn't protect anyone--it's
>> just a bandaid to make people feel better and less helpless.  ICE can move
>> in as soon as they have a name.  But what DOES help protect immigrants is
>> directly connected to the policing issue.  As soon as an undocumented
>> immigrant is arrested and booked-- there is no way to stop ICE from picking
>> them up--their names go immediately to the data base.  America is known for
>> arresting people of color at the drop of a hat, so the fact that Javier has
>> linked protection to how our local law enforcement behaves is really
>> important...it goes to the systemic level of intervention.  The city, like
>> all cities in the U.S. is broke, so it's both brave and foolish to face the
>> risk of losing federal dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Nick Thompson <
>> nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> To the local congregation:
>>
>>
>>
>> Your Mayor, being firm with NPR’s Robert Siegel.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-action
>> s-santa-fe-mayor-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city
>>
>>
>>
>> To the Diaspora,
>>
>>
>>
>> If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>> merlelef...@gmail.com
>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
> merlelef...@gmail.com
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] Immigrant Protection

[Merle Lefkoff]

This just came in tonight from the NY Daily News:

Don't count on the NYPD to help with President Trump’s directive to round
up undocumented immigrants.

Police Commissioner James O’Neill had a defiant message for the President
on Wednesday — saying his officers will not enforce administrative warrants
issued by federal immigration officials as a result of the expansive
deportation policies

.

“It is critical that everyone who comes into contact with the NYPD,
regardless of their immigration status, be able to identify themselves or
seek assistance without hesitation, anxiety or fear,” O’Neill said in the
sharply worded, 431-word internal memo to police officers.

-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Merle Lefkoff]

Nick, I'm not sure what you mean by a "wider community."  Do you mean those
who just blah blah and sit on their asses and not take action to respond to
what's happening?  The Council chambers were packed last night--standing
room only, and hundreds of people standing for hours outside the Council
watching on t.v. what was going on inside.  The wider activist community
were all there.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Merle,
>
>
>
> Hence my suggestion that the City may need support from a wider community
> sometime in the near future.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Merle
> Lefkoff
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:19 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!
>
>
>
> Yep.  He's a comer.  Check all the boxes:  young, handsome, Hispanic, gay,
> ambitious.  I was at the City Council meeting last night about the
> Sanctuary City resolutions.  "Sanctuary City" doesn't protect anyone--it's
> just a bandaid to make people feel better and less helpless.  ICE can move
> in as soon as they have a name.  But what DOES help protect immigrants is
> directly connected to the policing issue.  As soon as an undocumented
> immigrant is arrested and booked-- there is no way to stop ICE from picking
> them up--their names go immediately to the data base.  America is known for
> arresting people of color at the drop of a hat, so the fact that Javier has
> linked protection to how our local law enforcement behaves is really
> important...it goes to the systemic level of intervention.  The city, like
> all cities in the U.S. is broke, so it's both brave and foolish to face the
> risk of losing federal dollars.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Nick Thompson <
> nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> To the local congregation:
>
>
>
> Your Mayor, being firm with NPR’s Robert Siegel.
>
>
>
> http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-
> actions-santa-fe-mayor-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city
>
>
>
> To the Diaspora,
>
>
>
> If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
> merlelef...@gmail.com
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Nick Thompson]

Merle, 

 

Hence my suggestion that the City may need support from a wider community 
sometime in the near future.

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:19 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

 

Yep.  He's a comer.  Check all the boxes:  young, handsome, Hispanic, gay, 
ambitious.  I was at the City Council meeting last night about the Sanctuary 
City resolutions.  "Sanctuary City" doesn't protect anyone--it's just a bandaid 
to make people feel better and less helpless.  ICE can move in as soon as they 
have a name.  But what DOES help protect immigrants is directly connected to 
the policing issue.  As soon as an undocumented immigrant is arrested and 
booked-- there is no way to stop ICE from picking them up--their names go 
immediately to the data base.  America is known for arresting people of color 
at the drop of a hat, so the fact that Javier has linked protection to how our 
local law enforcement behaves is really important...it goes to the systemic 
level of intervention.  The city, like all cities in the U.S. is broke, so it's 
both brave and foolish to face the risk of losing federal dollars. 

 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:

To the local congregation:

 

Your Mayor, being firm with NPR’s Robert Siegel.

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-actions-santa-fe-mayor-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city
  

 

To the Diaspora, 

 

If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help. 

 

Nick  

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove





 

-- 

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com  
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Merle Lefkoff]

Yep.  He's a comer.  Check all the boxes:  young, handsome, Hispanic, gay,
ambitious.  I was at the City Council meeting last night about the
Sanctuary City resolutions.  "Sanctuary City" doesn't protect anyone--it's
just a bandaid to make people feel better and less helpless.  ICE can move
in as soon as they have a name.  But what DOES help protect immigrants is
directly connected to the policing issue.  As soon as an undocumented
immigrant is arrested and booked-- there is no way to stop ICE from picking
them up--their names go immediately to the data base.  America is known for
arresting people of color at the drop of a hat, so the fact that Javier has
linked protection to how our local law enforcement behaves is really
important...it goes to the systemic level of intervention.  The city, like
all cities in the U.S. is broke, so it's both brave and foolish to face the
risk of losing federal dollars.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> To the local congregation:
>
>
>
> Your Mayor, being firm with NPR’s Robert Siegel.
>
>
>
> http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-
> actions-santa-fe-mayor-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city
>
>
>
> To the Diaspora,
>
>
>
> If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Vladimyr Burachynsky]

Glen,

I think Robert Wall is nudging close to an idea that he failed to adequately 
clarify but you may have nailed it while trying to deny it (this I call a 
backhanded strike). Last week there was a strange article about groups of 
people having the same memory that have no contact with each other. That shared 
memory was in fact  demonstrably false. It was regarding a misperceived memory 
of a TV show called Shazaam and some comedian called Sinbad... My mind retains 
utter garbage sometimes.

I never saw it but then it never actually happened. The investigators explained 
that so many of the false memory components overlapped reality
that the subjects truly believed some occurrence that was categorically 
disproved. So a society may well share memories of fictional events and act on 
delusions ie mobs.

If an individual may fall into a groove then how else can mass insanity be 
better explained. I always recall that in history strange things happen on mass 
scale. For instance during the heated animosity between the Greeks and Latins a 
feud broke out over religious icons. West was Iconophilic and the east was 
Iconoclastic. The Latins were so pissed they assembled an armada in Rimini or 
Ravenna and sailed this monstrosity down the Adriatic to defend the faith. 
Somewhere between Brindisi and Corfu the greatest historical storm destroyed 
the entire fleet of ships sparing Byzantium a certain defeat. So Leo made a few 
compromises and things sort of settled down but then another group of serious 
iconoclasts  made trouble the Paulicians. Then the Muslims came along and the 
world is still fractured in many ways. It always struck me as the height of 
insanity to go to war over Symbols and I think Monty Python once made a skit 
out of crusaders and muslims beating the crap out of each other with religious 
banners and gilded reliquaries. While the armed knights and Saracens looked on 
in amazement. Whether this ever happened , I do not know, but can guess. 
Perhaps " the groove" has a darkside a suicidal aspect, such as the Battle of 
Gallipoli, as well as the neutral individual features we love to discuss openly.

I always suspected that Hatred is transmitted from mothers to children as is 
influenza propagation. I recall some very strange conversations between my 
German Mother and Ukrainian Aunt that bordered on the rabid hatred of mad dogs. 
Then they just continued serving Christmas dinner in total silence,  when the 
men returned to the dinner table. My Uncle a  devout Catholic and former 
Ukrainian Cavalry Officer would think nothing of Beheading Russians long after 
he was defeated in the 1920's. Indeed he was otherwise a rational Civil 
Engineer with a penchant for Botany but he hated anything that sounded 
affiliated with Russia or Eastern Orthodoxy. I could never tell the difference 
except for the slanted foot support on the crucifix. Hardly enough reason for 
bloodshed.

But Dylan Rouffe and Alexandre Bisonette slaughtered  defenseless congregations 
and showed no shame nor regret. They may be said to have been proud  of what 
they did. Anders Brevijk may well have been in a dark trench at the time of his 
methodical depredations of children, again no shame. No one mentions that that 
slaughter by a single man exceeded anything in the Old Testament perhaps a 
Cuiness World Record. Populism may well be a filthy outpouring of bottled up 
hatred. And the perverted demagogues revel in the delusion that they can 
manipulate it to their personal benefits.

It is not a welcome insight into human nature, I apologize for  disturbing the 
peace.

Well Canada is sending taxis to the border to rescue Somali's ignorant of our 
cold. Now our old ladies think the sky is falling because of a few refugees 
trying to run from Trump. Back in the 1960's and 70's we took in hundreds of 
American draft dodgers  and the sun remained in Orbit. 

I must admit that I had some fun today speaking to a millennial visitor that 
could no longer abide liberal visciousness  in the media. Left or right they 
are both resorting to fascistic techniques. He expected me to support the right 
but i laughed it off, I am more of a centrist anarchist I confessed, the other 
side of the sphere, so there was no need to abuse my hospitality.


vib 



-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ?
Sent: February-23-17 5:12 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs


Right, I think I got that you meant society being in the zone.  You expressed 
doubt and I disagree with you -- meaning only that I have less doubt. 8^)  I 
think society can (and does, often) get into a zone/groove/flow.  Some symptoms 
that are often complained about are "mob behavior", "groupthink", etc.  Some 
symptoms that are lauded are "wisdom of crowds", "negative freedoms" (freedom 
to _not_ be mugged, etc.), low unemployment, etc.

My 

Re: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Vladimyr Burachynsky]

 

Well, maybe Sanfa Fe and Winnipeg could become sister cities and piss off
both our federal governments.

Your Mayor has balls.

Maybe doing the right thing takes some special kind of  courage.

vib

 

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson
Sent: February-23-17 1:43 PM
To: Friam
Subject: [FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

 

To the local congregation:

 

Your Mayor, being firm with NPR's Robert Siegel.

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-actions-santa-fe-mayor
-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city  

 

To the Diaspora, 

 

If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help. 

 

Nick  

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Vladimyr Burachynsky]

To the congregation,

 

Oops, someone is watching….

 

I had Better pull up my trousers and get a shave

Jeez, I was only running off at the mouth about getting into TensorFlow code.

 

vib

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Jon Zingale
Sent: February-23-17 12:29 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

 

​Thank you, those responsible for the

discussion regarding simulation​ and

the real. Here is a competition currently

sponsored by MIT where competitors write

AI to perform automated war: BattleCode  .

 

Jon Zingale

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[glen ☣]

Right, I think I got that you meant society being in the zone.  You expressed 
doubt and I disagree with you -- meaning only that I have less doubt. 8^)  I 
think society can (and does, often) get into a zone/groove/flow.  Some symptoms 
that are often complained about are "mob behavior", "groupthink", etc.  Some 
symptoms that are lauded are "wisdom of crowds", "negative freedoms" (freedom 
to _not_ be mugged, etc.), low unemployment, etc.

My reference to my individual state of mind when I'm engaged in social activity 
was probably misleading, however.  What I should have referred to is something 
like stigmergy or the co-constructed landscape, infrastructure.  Some of us 
complain about the entitlement of the younger generations.  But really it's a 
good thing that they feel entitled ... entitled to walk down dark alleys 
without being killed ... entitled to buy a state of the art automobile for only 
$25k ... entitled to drive that automobile and experience the (waning) culture 
of Route 66.  Etc.

These are "society in a groove".  And it's a good thing for the most part.  
There are risks, e.g. populism, riots, the absence of critical thinking ... not 
knowing how to start a fire without a lighter, etc.

Anyway, so I disagree with the idea that society, as a group, can't be "in the 
zone".  But I believe that the thoughts inside the members of the society are 
not really _shared_ thoughts.  The societal groove does not depend on 
isomorphic relationships between the insides of the members' heads. (holography 
again)  And the extent to which individuals' grooves map to societal grooves is 
unclear (and probably complex).


On 02/22/2017 12:18 PM, Robert Wall wrote:
>> As for being in the zone socially, I disagree, though I don't particularly
>> care about any jargonal co-option of the term.  During hearty arguments,
>> mostly with religious people, I definitely lose myself in exactly the same
>> way I lose myself after that 3rd mile when running.  I have no illusions
>> that my zone is in any way shared by the people I'm arguing with, though
>> ... no more than I think you and I share internal constructs mediated by
>> the word "blue"
> 
> 
> To be clear, Glen, I was referring to a society being "in the zone" as a
> whole. Maybe this could mean an alignment of symbolic references.  Not
> sure, but, like you, somewhat dubious that this could happen. Within my
> philosophy group, we have discussed the idea of *conscious
> evolution*--becoming,
> say, wiser, by being "in the zone" so to speak--*with respect to the
> individua*l.  And I do see this as kind of a Csikszentmihalyi-est "being in
> the zone," a period of selfless awareness of a task or challenge. It's a
> neurological phenomenon. The objective is to make the period last as long
> as possible. Society is not very good at being selfless, even for a moment.
> 
> Perhaps with the assistance of Hebbian learning, say, over time this is
> possible for individuals who work at it to remain in this state longer than
> is typical.  It becomes a skill or practice.  But bubbling this up to the
> level of a society does not seem possible.  Religion hasn't and won't do it
> because that's a model that requires blind credulity to the provided
> surreal symbols.  Even in the context of Hebbian learning, where are the
> "societal neurons" that need to be rewired from their inculcated states?
> They tend to be imbued in the laws and in the prevailing morality memes.
> But these are just things to be gamed to ensure a *face validity* with our
> self-full life simulations.
> 
> The key component to any smart system is feedback.  But, we live in a
> society that is running open loop.  Another form of loopiness or delusion,
> I guess ... believing that everything will work out in the long run.  We
> are exceptional. We have democratic elections ... Hmmm,  I think the
> awakening is happening.  Maybe there is hope?  Is that a drone I hear above
> ... Oh, it's just an Amazone delivery ... or is it?  :-)



-- 
☣ glen


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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] Wow! He did Good!

[Nick Thompson]

To the local congregation:

 

Your Mayor, being firm with NPR's Robert Siegel.

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655818/despite-trump-actions-santa-fe-mayor
-vows-to-remain-a-sanctuary-city  

 

To the Diaspora, 

 

If this gets ugly, Santa Fe might need your help. 

 

Nick  

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 164, Issue 38

[Jon Zingale]

​Thank you, those responsible for the
discussion regarding simulation​ and
the real. Here is a competition currently
sponsored by MIT where competitors write
AI to perform automated war: BattleCode .

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:00 AM,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>1. Re: FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs (Robert Wall)
>2. Meet the Math Professor Who?s Fighting Gerrymandering With
>   Geometry - The Chronicle of Higher Education (Tom Johnson)
>3. Re:  Meet the Math Professor Who?s Fighting Gerrymandering
>   With Geometry - The Chronicle of Higher Education (Merle Lefkoff)
>4. FW: Grasping the scary, shaping local action (Nick Thompson)
>5. FW: trump/Ford (Nick Thompson)
>6. help with memory (Nick Thompson)
>7. Re: help with memory (Russell Standish)
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Robert Wall 
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:18:39 -0700
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs
> Hi Vladimyr,
>
> Nice to chat with you on the glen-channel. :-)  I guess I came late to the
> chat without fully understanding the how it was vectored.  It happens ...
> age ...
>
> Wrt conflating the two models of "being in the groove," y' all seem to be
> focused on the, perhaps, unintentional fusing of the real with the symbols
> we assign to the real for analysis or other purposes.  This issue works on
> many levels.  Csikszentmihalyi discusses this "being in the zone" in a
> positive way where creativity happens and what is really lost is our sense
> of self in the process.  Whitehead writes about this as a continuous
> process change that largely is motivated by "feeling."  But there is
> another side that you and Glen seem to be discussing that presents a more
> destructive side, where one loses the understanding that the
> representational is not the represented. We give too much meaning to the
> symbols such that they migrate from epistemological to ontological.  The
> question becomes are the symbols real?  So this is more one of delusion.
> Okay ... I think I am "in the groove" now. :-)
>
> You draw an interesting distinction between war-oriented computer games
> and real war engagements.  The distinction, however, seems to be fading
> away in the drone-engagement wars.  The representational becomes the
> grounded reality.  An emulation and not a simulation.  One of the
> combatants--the targeted--are but mere symbols, like on a heads-up display
> in a military fighter plane or just images on a computer monitor. Empire
> can go to war without actually going to war ... at least not until you have
> to own and occupy what Empire has destroyed: the livelihoods of the
> newly-minted refugees and the newly-minted enemies.  Killing becomes
> painless and remorseless and danger-free.  It becomes like a war-oriented
> computer game in that no one is shooting back at the guy who is pulling the
> trigger or at the "joy" stick.
>
> For a time, I used to build educating simulators for propositional war
> games that were used tactically in the field and strategically in a
> so-called war college. But these were still the kind where the assets and
> weapons were symbolic and just representational of possible eventualities.
> The goal was war training with only cyber-oriented risk ... kind of like a
> flight simulator.  But now, these simulators seem to have been weaponized
> and the risk all but eliminated.
>
> When you finally remove all the meaning from the math notation and just
>> manipulate the markings, it can be very hypnotic.
>
>
> Yes. For the triggermen, the process is kind of like the one Glen
> describes where the symbols have become ungrounded, valueless, meaningless.
> But, in reality, the "game" is no longer a simulation (a model) but an
> emulation (a surrogate for something real) operating in real time. And, for
> the targets, the process is the opposite of the one Glen describes where
> the symbols are very much grounded. Is the corollary that the triggermen
> are Platonists and the targeted combatants are Constructivists?
>
> Most of my time working under the rubric of systems engineering, though,
> was in building simulators for decision support.  This I much preferred.
> This seemed more constructive than destructive or combative, even if still
> only a simulator. But are we deluded 

Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Jon Zingale]

​Thank you, those responsible for the
discussion regarding simulation​ and
the real. Here is a competition currently
sponsored by MIT where competitors write
AI to perform automated war: BattleCode .

Jon Zingale

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove