Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Russ Abbott]

High speed trading does take on a life of its own and runs at a speed too
fast for people to follow. As I said, though, I want to exclude
human-produced artifacts. In addition, it's not clear there would be high
speed trading if there weren't human traders they are trying to front-run.

Agree, biology does sneak into weather phenomena as well.

What about my revised question. Can we think of anything that is
non-biological, non-human, and not a biological or human artifact that
would qualify as an agent based system?

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:48 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> *“*I'd rule out high speed trading since it's done with computers and
> works only because it interacts with people trading.”
>
>
>
> Increasingly there are volatility hazards that arise because machines are
> talking to machines in a multiparty fashion via the trading system and this
> happens at a frequency beyond what people can fathom.It takes on a life
> of its own.
>
>
>
> Planetary weather patterns seem like a decent example, but biology sneaks
> into that one too.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Marcus Daniels]

“I'd rule out high speed trading since it's done with computers and works only 
because it interacts with people trading.”

Increasingly there are volatility hazards that arise because machines are 
talking to machines in a multiparty fashion via the trading system and this 
happens at a frequency beyond what people can fathom.It takes on a life of 
its own.

Planetary weather patterns seem like a decent example, but biology sneaks into 
that one too.

Marcus



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Russ Abbott]

I'll buy the ones Steven Smith mentioned. But those are mainly weather and
related. I guess that could be generalized to weather and geology.

I don't see why formation of galaxies, stars and planets would be
considered a complex system phenomenon unless all of physics would be.

A vortex or hurricane or other dissipative system?

I'd rule out high speed trading since it's done with computers and works
only because it interacts with people trading.

All the examples I like (weather, etc.) are open systems that have energy
flowing through them. That often generates interesting phenomena. (As we
mentioned above dissipative systems .) Do you think
that's enough to qualify a system as complex? (I know, as Steve said, it's
a fuzzy term.) They all reflect "emergence" of some sort -- even though I
don't like that term these days. But they lack the quality of complexity
that we find in systems containing agents with some degree of autonomy.

Are there any non-biological, non-human, non-computer systems that would
qualify as consisting of autonomous agents?

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:48 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Although Donder's Son  may have a fine example.  The clouds (gas things)
>  Jupiter or saturns weather are fine example of complicated stuff only
> those planets make.
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:
>
>> "Complex Systems" being a somewhat fuzzy concept, this is hard/easy to
>> answer.
>>
>>
>> Any physical system comprised of large numbers of similar or identical
>> elements  which interact and yield non-linear collective behaviour seems
>> like a good enough definition for your purposes.   Sand dune formation and
>> (breaking) waves and cloud formation/dissipation all seem like pretty good
>> candidates, not to mention the aforementioned weather in general.
>> Earthquake/Rift/Mountain formain seems like a good fit as well as wind/rain
>> erosion of soil in general.
>>
>> On 5/24/17 8:56 PM, cody dooderson wrote:
>>
>> Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a
>> complex system?
>>
>> Cody Smith
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other
>>> examples that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent
>>> creating demand.   For example, energy or data or transportation networks
>>> are responding to a logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs.
>>> adaptive routing) is a demand created by people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and
>>> satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Russ
>>> Abbott
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
>>> *To:* FRIAM 
>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
>>> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>>>
>>> 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Gillian Densmore]

Although Donder's Son  may have a fine example.  The clouds (gas things)
 Jupiter or saturns weather are fine example of complicated stuff only
those planets make.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:

> "Complex Systems" being a somewhat fuzzy concept, this is hard/easy to
> answer.
>
>
> Any physical system comprised of large numbers of similar or identical
> elements  which interact and yield non-linear collective behaviour seems
> like a good enough definition for your purposes.   Sand dune formation and
> (breaking) waves and cloud formation/dissipation all seem like pretty good
> candidates, not to mention the aforementioned weather in general.
> Earthquake/Rift/Mountain formain seems like a good fit as well as wind/rain
> erosion of soil in general.
>
> On 5/24/17 8:56 PM, cody dooderson wrote:
>
> Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a
> complex system?
>
> Cody Smith
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other examples
>> that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent creating
>> demand.   For example, energy or data or transportation networks are
>> responding to a logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs.
>> adaptive routing) is a demand created by people.
>>
>>
>>
>> As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and
>> satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Russ
>> Abbott
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
>> *To:* FRIAM 
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
>> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Gillian Densmore]

Cody you poor poor person.pentagrams? lol been waching a bit much DrWho or
DaFlash have we :P

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:56 PM, cody dooderson  wrote:

> Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a
> complex system?
>
> Cody Smith
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other examples
>> that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent creating
>> demand.   For example, energy or data or transportation networks are
>> responding to a logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs.
>> adaptive routing) is a demand created by people.
>>
>>
>>
>> As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and
>> satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Russ
>> Abbott
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
>> *To:* FRIAM 
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
>> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Gillian Densmore]

Weather?
Gems?
Crystals?(natural ones)

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Steven A Smith  wrote:

> "Complex Systems" being a somewhat fuzzy concept, this is hard/easy to
> answer.
>
>
> Any physical system comprised of large numbers of similar or identical
> elements  which interact and yield non-linear collective behaviour seems
> like a good enough definition for your purposes.   Sand dune formation and
> (breaking) waves and cloud formation/dissipation all seem like pretty good
> candidates, not to mention the aforementioned weather in general.
> Earthquake/Rift/Mountain formain seems like a good fit as well as wind/rain
> erosion of soil in general.
>
> On 5/24/17 8:56 PM, cody dooderson wrote:
>
> Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a
> complex system?
>
> Cody Smith
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other examples
>> that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent creating
>> demand.   For example, energy or data or transportation networks are
>> responding to a logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs.
>> adaptive routing) is a demand created by people.
>>
>>
>>
>> As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and
>> satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Russ
>> Abbott
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
>> *To:* FRIAM 
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
>> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Steven A Smith]

"Complex Systems" being a somewhat fuzzy concept, this is hard/easy to 
answer.



Any physical system comprised of large numbers of similar or identical 
elements  which interact and yield non-linear collective behaviour seems 
like a good enough definition for your purposes. Sand dune formation and 
(breaking) waves and cloud formation/dissipation all seem like pretty 
good candidates, not to mention the aforementioned weather in general. 
Earthquake/Rift/Mountain formain seems like a good fit as well as 
wind/rain erosion of soil in general.



On 5/24/17 8:56 PM, cody dooderson wrote:
Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a 
complex system?


Cody Smith

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels > wrote:


High speed trading comes close to not involving people.   Other
examples that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological)
agent creating demand.   For example, energy or data or
transportation networks are responding to a logistical demand
created by people.   Netflix (vs. adaptive routing) is a demand
created by people.

As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models
and satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become
more adaptive.

*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
] *On Behalf Of *Russ Abbott
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
*To:* FRIAM mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't
involve biological organisms (including human beings)?



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
 by Dr. Strangelove





FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[cody dooderson]

Is a vortex like a funnel cloud or the Saturn's hexagon considered a
complex system?

Cody Smith

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other examples
> that come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent creating
> demand.   For example, energy or data or transportation networks are
> responding to a logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs.
> adaptive routing) is a demand created by people.
>
>
>
> As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and
> satisfy constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Russ
> Abbott
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
> *To:* FRIAM 
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?
>
>
>
> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Marcus Daniels]

High speed trading comes close to not involving people.Other examples that 
come to mind involve some autonomous (biological) agent creating demand.   For 
example, energy or data or transportation networks are responding to a 
logistical demand created by people.   Netflix (vs. adaptive routing) is a 
demand created by people.

As companies like Google begin to build agents that build models and satisfy 
constraints the requests they initiate will become more adaptive.

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russ Abbott
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
To: FRIAM 
Subject: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve biological 
organisms (including human beings)?

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Alfredo Covaleda Vélez]

formation of galaxies, stars and planets. Maybe. I guess.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Russ Abbott  wrote:

> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Russ Abbott]

The internet includes people -- who generate messages that traverse it.
But a system consisting solely of computers networked in some way may be a
good example.  It's not quite what I was thinking of, though. I'd like to
exclude anything biological and anything created by biological organisms.
So that excludes computers.

The best example I can think of is the weather system, including, ocean
currents and their interactions with weather phenomena. Considering the
distinction that's often made between complex and complicated, should
weather be considered complex or complicated?

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:00 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> the internet
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Russ Abbott 
> wrote:
>
>> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
>> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Gillian Densmore]

the internet

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Russ Abbott  wrote:

> Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
> biological organisms (including human beings)?
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Russ Abbott]

Are there any good examples of a complex system that doesn't involve
biological organisms (including human beings)?

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] Cautionary amazon tale

[Gillian Densmore]

This morning Amazon sent me (and probably others) a form email saying
basically Mea Culpta!

Acording to their email a former, miffed employe  was (trying to) set up
some sort of convoluted comically bad 're-acess system for guessing
customer wants and test our drone delivery system'
Ooops! the AI thought I'd reely like some store brand computer headset and
mp3 player plus some other inexpensive things.
A follow up email went on about how this person didn't get permision and
their AI is still in testing and company best practices is to keep it in a
sand box and they've now gone about putting even protections on customers
acounts that worker (or the AI " ") tried to use.

Yet another follow up email said because of all the emails and hastle this
fiasco's caused here's a voucher...and probably good idea to reset your
password.

-A google of the incident only came up with a few blurbs I don't know if
that's good or not
(Oh. What did someones dood dad do...this time.)
-Ooops!
-Sigh this can be what happens when a frustrated overly clever person makes
a nice tool but...Then gets impatient and all the bad things THAT leads to

I'm amused and impressed that Amazons skunkworks AI might be roughly child
levelish:  IE  Gee what happens when I push the big button that says don't
push the big red button!

lol and thanks guys for the store voucher! By the way reely clever person
that (used to) make their AIthis is why you leave expirmentally stuff
in a sandbox and keep saying to yourself: "when something goes wrong..."
(Fortunatly your bord bot didn't cause enormous problems.
.
"oops" is kinda akward start to a Mea Culpa! (having had MANY  "oops" and
"what's going to go wrong next?"  moments)

And to that bord bot and bord bot making person: Just curius why were you
up at 0300 my time anyway? oO

Just thought you guys might like and possibly learn a little from my
cautionary tale: What happens when a robot gets bord...

Enjoy the VERY awsome weather if you are on mIdguard/Terra NM province
UFFDA!!!

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[Frank Wimberly]

Thanks!

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On May 24, 2017 12:04 PM, "glen ☣"  wrote:

> Oh, and
>
>   Special characters across all X apps
>   http://blog.agent-based-modeling.com/index.php/gepr/scaaxa
>
> The tricky ones are the "Combining" characters like the ̶s̶t̶r̶i̶k̶e̶o̶u̶t.
>
>
> On 05/24/2017 10:47 AM, glen ☣ wrote:
> > UTF-8  /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
> >
> > On 05/24/2017 10:50 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> >> But V doesn't occur within the scope of the universal quantifier.
> Where do you find the logic symbols?
> >
>
> --
> ☣ glen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[glen ☣]

Oh, and

  Special characters across all X apps
  http://blog.agent-based-modeling.com/index.php/gepr/scaaxa

The tricky ones are the "Combining" characters like the ̶s̶t̶r̶i̶k̶e̶o̶u̶t.


On 05/24/2017 10:47 AM, glen ☣ wrote:
> UTF-8  /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
> 
> On 05/24/2017 10:50 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> But V doesn't occur within the scope of the universal quantifier.  Where do 
>> you find the logic symbols?
> 

-- 
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[glen ☣]

UTF-8  /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose

On 05/24/2017 10:50 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> But V doesn't occur within the scope of the universal quantifier.  Where do 
> you find the logic symbols?

-- 
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[Frank Wimberly]

But V doesn't occur within the scope of the universal quantifier.  Where do you 
find the logic symbols?


Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505

wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu
Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ?
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:59 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

Ha!  The obligatory pointing out of the least resistive path.  Or perhaps as 
Gillian might point out, those who state the obvious exhibit more power 
(∀V≠0|R→0,P→±∞).

On 05/24/2017 09:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Back in the Usenet days, people would prefix remarks like that as "Ob 
> complexity"  to pacify the relevant people.

--
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe 
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[glen ☣]

Ha!  The obligatory pointing out of the least resistive path.  Or perhaps as 
Gillian might point out, those who state the obvious exhibit more power 
(∀V≠0|R→0,P→±∞).

On 05/24/2017 09:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Back in the Usenet days, people would prefix remarks like that as "Ob 
> complexity"  to pacify the relevant people.

-- 
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[Marcus Daniels]

Back in the Usenet days, people would prefix remarks like that as "Ob 
complexity"  to pacify the relevant people.

One example in the news of adaptive criminality are churches that give 
sanctuary to individuals now facing deportation.   Ob buzzword:   These agents 
may be symmetry breaking!

Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2017, at 8:51 AM, glen ☣  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well sure, TANSTAAFL.  But, especially given Owen's (and apparently 
> Stephen's) loaded question "What is complexity?", to write it all off as 
> "tools don't imply political motives" is, itself, a loaded answer.  We have 
> overwhelming evidence that complexity is bound up with robustness through 
> mechanisms for phenomena like scale-free, fractal, far from equilibrium, etc. 
>  And that clearly implies that an earnest application of a tool (from hammers 
> to blockchains), one that actually tries to solve problems rather than 
> extract wealth for a sub-group, should make an attempt to reify those 
> phenomena.
> 
> So, as I suggested in the exploit post: "get ready for blockchain" also means 
> "get ready for exploitative tactics with and around blockchain tech."  That 
> article Tom posted focused exclusively on the happy-go-lucky, hyperbolic, 
> utopian dream, ignoring the nightmare that lurks beneath.
> 
>> On 05/23/2017 02:01 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> The concept of a secure distributed ledger (e.g. blockchain) doesn't itself 
>> really imply a political motive.   
> 
> -- 
> ☣ glen
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Get ready for Blockchain

[glen ☣]

Well sure, TANSTAAFL.  But, especially given Owen's (and apparently Stephen's) 
loaded question "What is complexity?", to write it all off as "tools don't 
imply political motives" is, itself, a loaded answer.  We have overwhelming 
evidence that complexity is bound up with robustness through mechanisms for 
phenomena like scale-free, fractal, far from equilibrium, etc.  And that 
clearly implies that an earnest application of a tool (from hammers to 
blockchains), one that actually tries to solve problems rather than extract 
wealth for a sub-group, should make an attempt to reify those phenomena.

So, as I suggested in the exploit post: "get ready for blockchain" also means 
"get ready for exploitative tactics with and around blockchain tech."  That 
article Tom posted focused exclusively on the happy-go-lucky, hyperbolic, 
utopian dream, ignoring the nightmare that lurks beneath.

On 05/23/2017 02:01 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> The concept of a secure distributed ledger (e.g. blockchain) doesn't itself 
> really imply a political motive.   

-- 
☣ glen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove