Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and Epigenetics)

2015-09-24 Thread Marcus Daniels 
Right! 

http://alcor.org/AtWork/index.html

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Parks, Raymond
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:39 AM
To: 'friam@redfish.com' 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into 
Chimerism and Epigenetics)

It would be much more convenient to store your head in a jar, a la Futurama.  
And more comedic.

Ray Parks




- Original Message -
From: Marcus Daniels [mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 09:33 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [FRIAM] I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into 
Chimerism and Epigenetics)

Well, I assume that if my connectome could be scanned with sufficient fidelity, 
and stored in a computer, that it would be possible, someday, to both query my 
memories, but also to measure emotional responses, in silico.  Probably even 
start and stop consciousness.The trick would be figuring out the 
interfaces, but obvious places to start would be the visual cortex, auditory 
centers, and various incoming nerves.It could sort of be approaches as a 
machine learning problem, like is beginning to be done with replacement limbs.  

Sure there are aspects of my physical self that are slightly unique to me, but 
I would expect they are modularized.   The experience of running, typing, and 
so on.   But those things aren't me.   If anything, it would seem to be 
thrilling to experience other real or simulated nervous systems.  

Yes, I know, what huge waste of disk space!
Btw, what rights do the dead have to their own memories?   A whole new field of 
IP law!

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:22 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and 
Epigenetics)

Glen/Nick -
>> Having said that, am I allowed to say, "Crap!  I wish you didn't have 
>> cancer!'
> Of course.  Thanks.  But just to be argumentative,
...
> I am cancer.  It's probably not true of all cancers, though.
I recently had a long conversation with a Muslim friend from Australia who 
donated her bone marrow to her sister to replace hers after it was deliberately 
destroyed by chemo/rad to stop *her* cancer.

This was against Islamic law but she and her family felt like they had still 
done the right thing.  She is now hyper aware that her sister is a 
Chimera, though she didn't have the term for it.   She believes that her 
sister underwent a radical personality change after the 
transplant/recovery and wants to attribute it to the "transplant".   At 
first I wanted to dismiss this but on a little reflection and study,  I am more 
sympathetic to her position.

The  more I read about hematopoietic cell transplant and lateral genetic 
transference, the curiouser it all gets!  I feel like we need the molecular 
biology equivalent of Oliver Sacks (RIP) in the house to bring a more popular 
understanding to the table of this fascinating field!

I was fascinated as a child to learn about tree grafting in nut and citrus 
orchards, and later organ transplants in humans, but this goes a 
step further since it is roughly "systemic".   This also lead me to 
reflect on birth-chimeras where multiple zygotes fuse early on to yield a 
single fetus and ultimately full human organism but with a mixture of cells 
with filial genomics.

I have friends who are "mirror" twins who each have a third nipple on opposite 
sides of their body (slightly lower than the conventional location).  They 
believed this to suggest that they had begun as triplets and that there was 
such a fusion during the early embryological 
process.   I didn't recognize any other chimeric properties (sometimes 
evidenced by piebald skin or hair markings).

This is NOT your father's Genetics!   My father studied biology in the 
late 1940s, my own molecular biology experience is roughly circa 1984, and my 
daughter's PhD in molecular biology is only about 7 years old now, yet *even 
her* "book larnin' " in the general field, and in particular epigenetics is 
getting stale fast!

- Steve


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe 
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe 
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe

Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and Epigenetics)

2015-09-24 Thread Steve Smith 

On 9/24/15 9:44 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

Right!

http://alcor.org/AtWork/index.html

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Parks, Raymond
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:39 AM
To: 'friam@redfish.com' 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into 
Chimerism and Epigenetics)

It would be much more convenient to store your head in a jar, a la Futurama.  
And more comedic.

Ray Parks


Doesn't the Alcor Splash Page just *beg* for some photo-shop action?  
clip off all the heads, put them in jars on a shelf?  Or just settle 
Jars down over them en-vivo like the way pear brandy bottlers sometimes 
let a pear grow (into!) the bottle they are going to distribute the 
brandy in?Sortof a space-suit theme?


Ray Kurzweil will be rolling over in his memory bank one day when we 
talk like this!


- Steve


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and Epigenetics)

2015-09-24 Thread Marcus Daniels 

"Ray Kurzweil will be rolling over in his memory bank one day when we talk like 
this!"

Don't confuse your memmove(3) and memcpy(3).Big trouble!

Marcus


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and Epigenetics)

2015-09-24 Thread glen 

On 09/24/2015 11:16 AM, Parks, Raymond wrote:

this time last year I had just been told I don't have lymphoma.  Of course, what I have 
is, as usual, a disease of unknown origin with symptomatic treatment at best.  There's a 
reason that what doctors do is called "practice".


That's both better and worse, I imagine.  It's when they _think_ they know 
what's happening that they get really dangerous.  Interesting shift from 
idiographic to idiopathic!

--
⇔ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and Epigenetics)

2015-09-24 Thread Parks, Raymond 
Actually, the Futurama version reminds me more of Abby Normal - 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q

Oh, and poor attempts at humour are my defense against bad news - this time 
about Glen.  I can sympathize - this time last year I had just been told I 
don't have lymphoma.  Of course, what I have is, as usual, a disease of unknown 
origin with symptomatic treatment at best.  There's a reason that what doctors 
do is called "practice".

Ray Parks
Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)



On Sep 24, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> Right! 
> 
> http://alcor.org/AtWork/index.html
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Parks, Raymond
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:39 AM
> To: 'friam@redfish.com' 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue 
> into Chimerism and Epigenetics)
> 
> It would be much more convenient to store your head in a jar, a la Futurama.  
> And more comedic.
> 
> Ray Parks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Marcus Daniels [mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 09:33 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [FRIAM] I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into 
> Chimerism and Epigenetics)
> 
> Well, I assume that if my connectome could be scanned with sufficient 
> fidelity, and stored in a computer, that it would be possible, someday, to 
> both query my memories, but also to measure emotional responses, in silico.  
> Probably even start and stop consciousness.The trick would be figuring 
> out the interfaces, but obvious places to start would be the visual cortex, 
> auditory centers, and various incoming nerves.It could sort of be 
> approaches as a machine learning problem, like is beginning to be done with 
> replacement limbs.  
> 
> Sure there are aspects of my physical self that are slightly unique to me, 
> but I would expect they are modularized.   The experience of running, typing, 
> and so on.   But those things aren't me.   If anything, it would seem to be 
> thrilling to experience other real or simulated nervous systems.  
> 
> Yes, I know, what huge waste of disk space!
> Btw, what rights do the dead have to their own memories?   A whole new field 
> of IP law!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:22 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: [FRIAM] I am Cancer, hear me roar! (with segue into Chimerism and 
> Epigenetics)
> 
> Glen/Nick -
>>> Having said that, am I allowed to say, "Crap!  I wish you didn't have 
>>> cancer!'
>> Of course.  Thanks.  But just to be argumentative,
> ...
>> I am cancer.  It's probably not true of all cancers, though.
> I recently had a long conversation with a Muslim friend from Australia who 
> donated her bone marrow to her sister to replace hers after it was 
> deliberately destroyed by chemo/rad to stop *her* cancer.
> 
> This was against Islamic law but she and her family felt like they had still 
> done the right thing.  She is now hyper aware that her sister is a 
> Chimera, though she didn't have the term for it.   She believes that her 
> sister underwent a radical personality change after the 
> transplant/recovery and wants to attribute it to the "transplant".   At 
> first I wanted to dismiss this but on a little reflection and study,  I am 
> more sympathetic to her position.
> 
> The  more I read about hematopoietic cell transplant and lateral genetic 
> transference, the curiouser it all gets!  I feel like we need the molecular 
> biology equivalent of Oliver Sacks (RIP) in the house to bring a more popular 
> understanding to the table of this fascinating field!
> 
> I was fascinated as a child to learn about tree grafting in nut and citrus 
> orchards, and later organ transplants in humans, but this goes a 
> step further since it is roughly "systemic".   This also lead me to 
> reflect on birth-chimeras where multiple zygotes fuse early on to yield a 
> single fetus and ultimately full human organism but with a mixture of cells 
> with filial genomics.
> 
> I have friends who are "mirror" twins who each have a third nipple on 
> opposite sides of their body (slightly lower than the conventional location). 
>  They believed this to suggest that they had begun as triplets and that there 
> was such a fusion during the early embryological 
> process.   I didn't recognize any other chimeric properties (sometimes 
> evidenced by piebald skin or hair markings).
> 
> This is NOT your father's Genetics!   My father studied biology in the 
> late 1940s, my own