Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
Steve, I think the Rainbow is still in my attic in Massachusetts! So, when you are getting together your Museum of Computer Arcania, you can have it. There's pretty much a decade of correspondence up there on disks that nobody can read, any more. Good thing none of my students ever became a president . or was seduced by one. I lost another five years when I got mad at Outlook and switched to Earthlink's Total Abcess. They announced one day that they weren't supporting it any more and . that was that! Believe it or not, there was no way to bring those files over into another mail program. Even Dot Foil couldn't do it. What will be the computer equivalent of the Box of Lincoln's letters uncovered in an old lady's attic in Peioria? Will an industry develop some time in the future of recovering old cp/m disks at vast expense? Bill's love emails to Paula Jones? Nick From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:10 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Nick - There have to be *some* APs in there for you... certainly your reference to the old Dec RAINBOW kicked a few neurons loose. Samna rings a bell, didn't they get bought up by Lotus? This kicks loose a cascade of neurons around the whole spreadsheet legacy of visicalc/123/improv! Thanks, I'll be up all night dreaming pivot tables and projections of OLAP hypercubes! - Steve How about A.P.'s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. N From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first program in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
NIck- Just to tie two threads together (why not after all?), I'm just now reading Russell's paper as produced for us by Owen, and I'm left with the niggling feeling that they have a strong theoretical connection between your (quoting Doug here) Big, Bold, Naive Question (implied if not stated, why can't I read my old e-mail?) and Complexity (the nominal topic of this group?). Your hard drive on your _Rainbow in the Attic_ (there's a title for a book in itself!) contains a bit string (not all that long compared to today's hard drive sizes) that has a certain amount of information. Assuming no physical/magnetic damage to the platter(s) the problem of extracting the information is context, roughly in the same sense as Russell's (in response to Kolmogorov Complexity measures and the paradox produced by the Invariance Theorem). Since nominally your mail is in clear ASCII text with (probably) even ASCII text headers/wrappers/indices/etc. then *most* of the context is already known (guessable/verifiable). Mind you, I'm not offering to go dig out your mail for you, as I would have done the same from one or another of my own _Digital Fossils in the Basement_ (second in the series of books you just inspired). I'm just introspecting (extrospecting, speculating out loud, expectorating?) about the tie in and the possible reality of your point about some industry develop sometime of recovering old ... coming true. It seems quite possible that the biggest hurdle will the physical/electronic/magnetic extraction, just as OCR problems went from optical and algorithmic limits to how fast and accurately can you turn a page, load a book, pull a book from a shelf? I got to see a prototype of what *had to be* a pneumatic driven, high speed book reader that was built for Google (Books?) by colleagues of mine (who were under non-disclosure) and came to appreciate this particular reality (so many books, so little time). Maybe there will be an electromagnetic version of the relatively inexpensive laser scanners of today (NextEngine) or DIY Structured Light (ala Ambient Pixel) which can pull bits right off of platters without spinning them up or removing them from their spindles and cases... at which point the problem becomes a bit like OCR and the same kind of semantic error correction that is helping Google Voice and I assume Google Books to handle low fidelity data and/or recognize format/indexing information (like chapter and heading titles, page numbers, etc.) This all ties back to the work I'm (re)discovering by our own Russel Standish (putting another half-hitch in the threads being tangled here) and his use of Syntactic and Semantic in relationship to *Emergence* . I understand there are already people who consider themselves digital archaeologists, so this may not be so far fetched. As for who would pay for such things, it seems like the digital paparazzi are good candidates (as you imply with the Bill/Paula correspondences). In today's technology, I would expect someone to find captured Skype streams of virtual infidelities between people of such high profile! No end of the fun to be had out there... be careful and keep a low profile! - Steve Steve, I think the Rainbow is still in my attic in Massachusetts! So, when you are getting together your Museum of Computer Arcania, you can have it. There's pretty much a decade of correspondence up there on disks that nobody can read, any more. Good thing none of my students ever became a president ... or was seduced by one. I lost another five years when I got mad at Outlook and switched to Earthlink's */Total Abcess/*. They announced one day that they weren't supporting it any more and ... that was that! Believe it or not, there was no way to bring those files over into another mail program. Even Dot Foil couldn't do it. What will be the computer equivalent of the Box of Lincoln's letters uncovered in an old lady's attic in Peioria? Will an industry develop some time in the future of recovering old cp/m disks at vast expense? Bill's love emails to Paula Jones? Nick *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:10 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Nick - There have to be *some* APs in there for you... certainly your reference to the old Dec RAINBOW kicked a few neurons loose. Samna rings a bell, didn't they get bought up by Lotus? This kicks loose a cascade of neurons around the whole spreadsheet legacy of visicalc/123/improv! Thanks, I'll be up all night dreaming pivot tables and projections of OLAP hypercubes! - Steve How about A.P.'s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. N *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
It is a terrible pity that so much of our former computing infrastructure has been dumped in landfill, and still will be. A recent initiative here in Sydney to set up a computer museum (of sorts), ran out of money, and many antique computers that had been stored in a warehouse have been sent to landfill. As for extracting data, given enough resources, the early stuff (coded in ASCII) should be possible. Several times I have recovered data from floppy disks whose filesystems were correupted, by essentially getting a dump of all sectors, then playing the jigsaw puzzle game to put the files together. It was even possible in some earlier versions of Word (losing formatting), though current Word formats are not so possible, as these use compression algorithms, that are sensitive to frame reading errors. These days, we could even apply some of the technology used for assembling gene fragments together to do this in an automated machine-learned fashion. It should even be possible to read data off the floppy disks, even if no floppy disk drive is available (although it will be easier if one is present). However, my original CP/M machine (a Superbrain), used to write its bits to disk in the opposite sense to how PCs did it, so one of the first steps to do upon receiving the bit image onto a PC was to invert the bits. Unfortunately, this had the downside that certain sector control signals would be misinterpreted by the PC's floppy disk controller, which meant that I couldn't read the superbrain disks unless the disks had been initially formatted on a PC! The Superbrain is long dead - the hardware lasted approximately 11 years, and it died in active service. Fortunately I had extracted anything of value from that media format, prior to its demise, in preparation for moving to Germany in the early '90s. Cheers On Wed, Feb 06, 2013 at 10:26:54AM -0700, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Steve, I think the Rainbow is still in my attic in Massachusetts! So, when you are getting together your Museum of Computer Arcania, you can have it. There's pretty much a decade of correspondence up there on disks that nobody can read, any more. Good thing none of my students ever became a president . or was seduced by one. I lost another five years when I got mad at Outlook and switched to Earthlink's Total Abcess. They announced one day that they weren't supporting it any more and . that was that! Believe it or not, there was no way to bring those files over into another mail program. Even Dot Foil couldn't do it. What will be the computer equivalent of the Box of Lincoln's letters uncovered in an old lady's attic in Peioria? Will an industry develop some time in the future of recovering old cp/m disks at vast expense? Bill's love emails to Paula Jones? Nick From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:10 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Nick - There have to be *some* APs in there for you... certainly your reference to the old Dec RAINBOW kicked a few neurons loose. Samna rings a bell, didn't they get bought up by Lotus? This kicks loose a cascade of neurons around the whole spreadsheet legacy of visicalc/123/improv! Thanks, I'll be up all night dreaming pivot tables and projections of OLAP hypercubes! - Steve How about A.P.'s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. N From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first program in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
On 2/6/13 5:44 PM, Russell Standish wrote: It should even be possible to read data off the floppy disks, even if no floppy disk drive is available (although it will be easier if one is present). http://www.afmworkshop.com/np-atomic-force-microscope.php Imagine the trouble one could get into. :-) Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
I think I want one. With topography vibrating mode, please. On Feb 6, 2013 8:12 PM, Marcus G. Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: On 2/6/13 5:44 PM, Russell Standish wrote: It should even be possible to read data off the floppy disks, even if no floppy disk drive is available (although it will be easier if one is present). http://www.afmworkshop.com/np-**atomic-force-microscope.phphttp://www.afmworkshop.com/np-atomic-force-microscope.php Imagine the trouble one could get into. :-) Marcus ==**== FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/**listinfo/friam_redfish.comhttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
The MASTERS Program at the community college has one (a tabletop version). The samples they give you are graphite and a CD, but I will suggest trying floppy discs. We are just now getting the kinks of using it out. -Arlo James Barnes On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.netwrote: I think I want one. With topography vibrating mode, please. http://www.afmworkshop.com/np-**atomic-force-microscope.phphttp://www.afmworkshop.com/np-atomic-force-microscope.php FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] Arcane Points
Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first _program_ in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
Robert! Even *I* think I can speak for the group giving this *Arcane Points*! I *was* aware of the Atlas, but didn't know of Autocode before this and didn't have a clue about the English Electric LEO Marconi KDF9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDF9 ... being a Yank (AKA Murrican) and a few years your junior, I was totally unaware of these machines (KDF8,9) until now! Sounds like Autocode was a great introduction to modern (futuristic at the time?) (Typing including Complex Numbers, Block Structure, Stropping, etc!). And just to make you more nostalgic: http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/scans/atlas_autocode_manual/ I'm hoping someone can come up with a strawman method for evaluating Arcane Points. On the traditional scale of 1-10 I'd be tempted to give you a 9 (to avoid grade inflation) but can't decide if the KDF9 implementation being of Germanium Diodes instead of Valves (Vacuum Tubes) should raise or lower that number? There does seem to be a system developed for Figure Skating (International Code of Points http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Judging_System). But it just begs questions like what are the Salchow or Triple Lutz of FRIAM posts? Actually, I was recently inspired to think that some of the conversations here are a lot like Curling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curling, another Obscure (Arcane?) Olympic Sport performed on ice! - Steve PS... YES I do have better things to do with my time, which I suspect is precisely why I'm being a Doug with a Bone here! Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first _program_ in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
I was amazed how much info there was in Wikipedia and had come across the Edinburgh Univ. materials earlier. Another cultural difference: we used punch tape not cards. Meditate on the pros and cons of that with a 256KB RAM KDF9 and overnight turnaround! Thanks Robert C PS and I'd forgotten about the underlining thing which might raise one's AP? R On 2/5/13 2:28 PM, Steve Smith wrote: Robert! Even *I* think I can speak for the group giving this *Arcane Points*! I *was* aware of the Atlas, but didn't know of Autocode before this and didn't have a clue about the English Electric LEO Marconi KDF9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDF9 ... being a Yank (AKA Murrican) and a few years your junior, I was totally unaware of these machines (KDF8,9) until now! Sounds like Autocode was a great introduction to modern (futuristic at the time?) (Typing including Complex Numbers, Block Structure, Stropping, etc!). And just to make you more nostalgic: http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/scans/atlas_autocode_manual/ I'm hoping someone can come up with a strawman method for evaluating Arcane Points. On the traditional scale of 1-10 I'd be tempted to give you a 9 (to avoid grade inflation) but can't decide if the KDF9 implementation being of Germanium Diodes instead of Valves (Vacuum Tubes) should raise or lower that number? There does seem to be a system developed for Figure Skating (International Code of Points http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Judging_System). But it just begs questions like what are the Salchow or Triple Lutz of FRIAM posts? Actually, I was recently inspired to think that some of the conversations here are a lot like Curling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curling, another Obscure (Arcane?) Olympic Sport performed on ice! - Steve PS... YES I do have better things to do with my time, which I suspect is precisely why I'm being a Doug with a Bone here! Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first _program_ in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
How about A.P.'s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. N From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Arcane Points Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first program in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
Nick - There have to be *some* APs in there for you... certainly your reference to the old Dec RAINBOW kicked a few neurons loose. Samna rings a bell, didn't they get bought up by Lotus? This kicks loose a cascade of neurons around the whole spreadsheet legacy of visicalc/123/improv! Thanks, I'll be up all night dreaming pivot tables and projections of OLAP hypercubes! - Steve How about A.P.'s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. N *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:40 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* [FRIAM] Arcane Points Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first _program_ in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Arcane Points
Three words: Rainbow, Word Perfect. On Feb 5, 2013 9:10 PM, Steve Smith sasm...@swcp.com wrote: Nick - There have to be *some* APs in there for you... certainly your reference to the old Dec RAINBOW kicked a few neurons loose. Samna rings a bell, didn't they get bought up by Lotus? This kicks loose a cascade of neurons around the whole spreadsheet legacy of visicalc/123/improv! Thanks, I'll be up all night dreaming pivot tables and projections of OLAP hypercubes! - Steve How about A.P.’s for a word processor called Samna running on cpm on a computer called a Rainbow? Had some features that Word has yet to introduce. ** ** N ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.comfriam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:40 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* [FRIAM] Arcane Points ** ** Robert - Can I get some Arcane Points for writing my first *program* in ISO coded Atlas Autocode on an EELM KDF9? Robert C I'm not sure what is required for granting Arcane Points... certainly, without help from Dr. Internet, I don't have a clue about these referencesI I suppose there is a sweet spot where *at least* one other member of the group recognizes the reference... but obviously not too many. And I suppose that only makes them Obscure, not Arcane. Merriam Webster seems to distinguish Arcane from Obscure by invoking an element of the Mysterious or the Occult. I think there is an overtone of being therefore only known to the Initiate. I suppose all of our references to Obscure (or Arcane) details is motivated by rememberances of our time as Initiates, sort of offering a secret handshake from an old fraternity or childhood treehouse-club? Let's see who has an EELM KDF9 in their cupboard or a reference manual to Atlas Autocode in their bookshelf! - Steve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
