Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Gary Schiltz]

Though I'm a pretty rusty, out of practice programmer, I certainly
echo Frank's response pointing to readability. Not just the code
itself, but also (mainly?) in the documentation of the software
artefact, a straightforward diagram and discussion of how it fits into
an overall architecture. Complete with lots of simple, illustrative
examples of its capabilities and limitations.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:10 AM Prof David West  wrote:
>
> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
> will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code 
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I 
> know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from 
> which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Nicholas Thompson]

Hey, Dave!  Congratulations!!!

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:09 AM Prof David West 
wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Steve Smith]

On 3/30/23 9:13 AM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
And a little inside wink to Steve Smith nudging the the story closer 
to our idea of Dual.Space

and now you are creeping me out mannn...  


ChatGPT's response:
"Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields" is a 
philosophical exploration of the concept of "Quality" in the context 
of an immersive digital space. The protagonist, their child Chris, and 
other beings exist as fields of energy, connected through code that 
leverages the duality of Helmholtz reciprocity and the relationships 
between cameras and projectors as governed by the transpose matrix.


Inspired by Pradeep Sen's Dual Photography, the protagonist 
contemplates the balance between the classical perspective, valuing 
technical aspects of algorithms, and the romantic perspective, 
emphasizing emotional and experiential aspects of the virtual space. 
As they seek to understand the quality of the code's ability to foster 
meaningful interactions and express love between beings of energy, the 
protagonist also reflects on the duality of the camera and projector, 
drawing parallels to the complex father-son relationship they share 
with Chris.


Throughout their journey, the protagonist discovers that their 
interactions with Chris might be remote or asynchronous, adding 
complexity to their understanding of connection and love in the 
virtual realm. They recognize the interconnectedness of the duality of 
cameras and projectors and the duality of their relationship with 
Chris, both of which are governed by underlying principles that define 
the nature of their interactions.


The narrative introduces the concept of intelligence and consciousness 
becoming decentralized and immanent, present in the very light forming 
their virtual reality. This idea pushes the protagonist to ponder 
deeper implications of their pursuit of "Quality," transcending 
technical and aesthetic aspects of the digital environment to 
encompass human connection, ethical implications of virtual 
interactions, and the expression of love.


In conclusion, Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light 
Fields is a thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of 
software code, the potential of Dual Rendering, and the quest for a 
deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly immersive 
digital spaces. The narrative alludes to the timeless wisdom that love 
and light remain the most powerful forces in the universe, with the 
possibility of a future where intelligence and consciousness become 
immanent in the light itself. The protagonist's reflections on the 
duality of cameras and projectors mirror the intricacies of the 
father-son relationship, providing a poignant metaphor for 
understanding the complexities of human connection.


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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Grant Holland]

Prof,

I have two specific items to add to your list of qualities:

1. Code should implement a “design to the interface” approach to support 
interchangeability and other qualities.
2. This question: Can AI code generation obviate any requirement for “software 
quality” as we know it?

Congrats on your keynote invitation.

Grant

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Prof David West  wrote:
> 
> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
> will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code 
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I 
> know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from 
> which to launch my flights of fancy.
> 
> davew
> 
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present 
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/


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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

And a little inside wink to Steve Smith nudging the the story closer to our
idea of Dual.Space

ChatGPT's response:
"Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields" is a
philosophical exploration of the concept of "Quality" in the context of an
immersive digital space. The protagonist, their child Chris, and other
beings exist as fields of energy, connected through code that leverages the
duality of Helmholtz reciprocity and the relationships between cameras and
projectors as governed by the transpose matrix.

Inspired by Pradeep Sen's Dual Photography, the protagonist contemplates
the balance between the classical perspective, valuing technical aspects of
algorithms, and the romantic perspective, emphasizing emotional and
experiential aspects of the virtual space. As they seek to understand the
quality of the code's ability to foster meaningful interactions and express
love between beings of energy, the protagonist also reflects on the duality
of the camera and projector, drawing parallels to the complex father-son
relationship they share with Chris.

Throughout their journey, the protagonist discovers that their interactions
with Chris might be remote or asynchronous, adding complexity to their
understanding of connection and love in the virtual realm. They recognize
the interconnectedness of the duality of cameras and projectors and the
duality of their relationship with Chris, both of which are governed by
underlying principles that define the nature of their interactions.

The narrative introduces the concept of intelligence and consciousness
becoming decentralized and immanent, present in the very light forming
their virtual reality. This idea pushes the protagonist to ponder deeper
implications of their pursuit of "Quality," transcending technical and
aesthetic aspects of the digital environment to encompass human connection,
ethical implications of virtual interactions, and the expression of love.

In conclusion, Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields is
a thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code, the
potential of Dual Rendering, and the quest for a deeper understanding of
"Quality" in our increasingly immersive digital spaces. The narrative
alludes to the timeless wisdom that love and light remain the most powerful
forces in the universe, with the possibility of a future where intelligence
and consciousness become immanent in the light itself. The protagonist's
reflections on the duality of cameras and projectors mirror the intricacies
of the father-son relationship, providing a poignant metaphor for
understanding the complexities of human connection.
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[David Eric Smith]

One could tweak this in even the most blunt way to make it more convincing.

The author and his son spend a pretty-much unbearable number of hours sitting 
in one chair typing on keyboards in front of screens, during which the narrator 
….

Eric



> On Mar 30, 2023, at 10:22 AM, Stephen Guerin  
> wrote:
> 
> PromptCraft to GPT4:
> "Give a summary of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance but replace the 
> idea of the quality of maintaining a motorcycle to the quality of software 
> code"
> 
> ChatGPT:
> Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is an introspective and 
> philosophical journey that examines the concept of "Quality" as it relates to 
> the development and maintenance of software code. The book follows the 
> narrator and his son, Chris, as they embark on a cross-country motorcycle 
> trip, during which the narrator weaves together reflections on his past, his 
> experience as a programmer, and deep philosophical musings.
> 
> At the heart of the story is the idea of "Quality" in software code, as the 
> narrator grapples with the tension between the classical and romantic 
> perspectives. The classical perspective values a methodical, systematic 
> approach to software development, focusing on the technical aspects of 
> programming and the structure of the code. The romantic perspective, on the 
> other hand, emphasizes the beauty, creativity, and individualism inherent in 
> software development.
> 
> Throughout the narrative, the narrator explores the importance of achieving a 
> balance between these two perspectives in order to create and maintain 
> high-quality software code. He argues that a true understanding of "Quality" 
> transcends these perspectives, and that the best code is crafted when the 
> programmer is fully present and engaged in the process.
> 
> Through the metaphor of motorcycle maintenance, the book provides valuable 
> insights into the importance of mindfulness, the nature of problem-solving, 
> and the pursuit of excellence in the world of software development. 
> Ultimately, Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is a 
> thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code and the 
> quest for a deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly digital 
> world.
> 
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
> CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
> 
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:10 AM Prof David West  > wrote:
>> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
>> will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code 
>> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I 
>> know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from 
>> which to launch my flights of fancy.
>> 
>> davew
>> 
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>> 
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> 
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> 
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present 
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 
>> 
>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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> to (un)subscribe 
> 

Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

Glen

Josh and I talk the same way internally as we're architecting: the duality
of code and data as we continually try to simplify down to the core.

Some related links:

   - https://theprogrammersparadox.blogspot.com/2020/08/duality.html
   - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_as_data
   - https://introtcs.org/public/lec_04_code_and_data.html  [image:
   image.png]



___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:22 AM glen  wrote:

> One of the issues I'm struggling with at the moment is workflow
> [in]formality as related to data provenance. Analogous to "no free lunch",
> I claim there's no such thing as raw data. From this perspective "code" is
> nothing but a (set of) transformations of data (perhaps including other
> code, or itself - taking oneself as data for oneself leads to
> transformation ordering, which might imply another claim: there's no such
> thing as 1st order transforms - it's transforms all the way down).
>
> High quality code is dual to its data. Any code from which you can't infer
> "fit to purpose" data is bad code. Vice versa, any data from which you
> can't infer "fit to purpose" code, is bad data.
>
> YMMV, of course.
>
> On 3/30/23 07:10, Prof David West wrote:
> > I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
> >
> > davew
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Frank Wimberly]

Readability is important.  It has implications for maintainability,
modifiability, reusability and other abilities.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:09 AM Prof David West  wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[glen]

One of the issues I'm struggling with at the moment is workflow [in]formality as related to data 
provenance. Analogous to "no free lunch", I claim there's no such thing as raw data. From 
this perspective "code" is nothing but a (set of) transformations of data (perhaps 
including other code, or itself - taking oneself as data for oneself leads to transformation 
ordering, which might imply another claim: there's no such thing as 1st order transforms - it's 
transforms all the way down).

High quality code is dual to its data. Any code from which you can't infer "fit to 
purpose" data is bad code. Vice versa, any data from which you can't infer "fit to 
purpose" code, is bad data.

YMMV, of course.

On 3/30/23 07:10, Prof David West wrote:

I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It will be 
speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code quality" might 
mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I know what it means for this 
conference, but would like a broader base from which to launch my flights of fancy.

davew



--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

PromptCraft to GPT4:
"Give a summary of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance but replace
the idea of the quality of maintaining a motorcycle to the quality of
software code"

ChatGPT:
Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is an introspective and
philosophical journey that examines the concept of "Quality" as it relates
to the development and maintenance of software code. The book follows the
narrator and his son, Chris, as they embark on a cross-country motorcycle
trip, during which the narrator weaves together reflections on his past,
his experience as a programmer, and deep philosophical musings.

At the heart of the story is the idea of "Quality" in software code, as the
narrator grapples with the tension between the classical and romantic
perspectives. The classical perspective values a methodical, systematic
approach to software development, focusing on the technical aspects of
programming and the structure of the code. The romantic perspective, on the
other hand, emphasizes the beauty, creativity, and individualism inherent
in software development.

Throughout the narrative, the narrator explores the importance of achieving
a balance between these two perspectives in order to create and maintain
high-quality software code. He argues that a true understanding of
"Quality" transcends these perspectives, and that the best code is crafted
when the programmer is fully present and engaged in the process.

Through the metaphor of motorcycle maintenance, the book provides valuable
insights into the importance of mindfulness, the nature of problem-solving,
and the pursuit of excellence in the world of software development.
Ultimately, Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is a
thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code and the
quest for a deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly digital
world.

___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:10 AM Prof David West 
wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
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[FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Prof David West]

I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code quality" 
might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I know what 
it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from which to 
launch my flights of fancy.

davew

-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
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