Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind
Dear Robert,Similarly, who says I can't have a mind without a body? Won't it carry on existing in the mind of the Intelligent Designer?You could say so, just as a Linux OS could be sitting in a CD... but it wouldn't function, so for practical purposes, it is as good as non-existant. Thus, a mind needs a body and an environment to be able to be perceived by an observer.Best regards, Carlos Gershenson... Centrum Leo Apostel, Vrije Universiteit Brussel Krijgskundestraat 33. B-1160 Brussels, Belgium http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~cgershen/ “Tendencies tend to change...” FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind
Not strictly true I think. Sure, Linux can't run without a PC but does that mean it can't exist without one? Linux started its existence in Torvalds' head before it appeared on a CPU and if all CPUs vanished tomorrow it would still exist in his and other experts heads. Similarly, who says I can't have a mind without a body? Won't it carry on existing in the mind of the Intelligent Designer?RobertOn 7/19/06, Carlos Gershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minds do not, in our common talk, have arms, legs, mouths, eyes, etc.,Yes, but you cannot have a (human) mind without a body.In a similar way, you cannot have e.g. Linux running without a PC,and Linux doesn't have a CPU, HD, RAM, etc... This has lead people to either aim at real world robotics as the onlyway forward in AI, or at developing inside the computer complexbodies and environments...Best regards, Carlos Gershenson... Centrum Leo Apostel, Vrije Universiteit Brussel Krijgskundestraat 33. B-1160 Brussels, Belgium http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~cgershen/ "To know your limits you need to go beyond them" FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listservMeets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's Collegelectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind
But Robert, Linux is an operating system, not a computer. Is the analogy to mind from a computer or from an operating system. If so, would you say that a program is "inside" a computer or "an organization of the resources of " a computer. Hence, you would say that a mind is "of a brain" not "in a brain". And to the extent that a computer program organizes peripherals and even other computers than the one it is "of", you would have to say, consistent with the metaphor, that a mind is not just "of" its brain but also "of" the things in the world around that brain. No? Nick Nicholas Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson - Original Message - From: Robert Holmes To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 7/19/2006 11:53:59 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind Not strictly true I think. Sure, Linux can't run without a PC but does that mean it can't exist without one? Linux started its existence in Torvalds' head before it appeared on a CPU and if all CPUs vanished tomorrow it would still exist in his and other experts heads. Similarly, who says I can't have a mind without a body? Won't it carry on existing in the mind of the Intelligent Designer?Robert On 7/19/06, Carlos Gershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minds do not, in our common talk, have arms, legs, mouths, eyes, etc.,Yes, but you cannot have a (human) mind without a body.In a similar way, you cannot have e.g. Linux running without a PC,and Linux doesn't have a CPU, HD, RAM, etc... This has lead people to either aim at real world robotics as the onlyway forward in AI, or at developing inside the computer complexbodies and environments...Best regards, Carlos Gershenson... Centrum Leo Apostel, Vrije Universiteit Brussel Krijgskundestraat 33. B-1160 Brussels, Belgium http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~cgershen/ "To know your limits you need to go beyond them" FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listservMeets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's Collegelectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind
You're starting to have too much fun with this, Roger.;-]On 7/19/06, Roger Critchlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/19/06, Robert Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not strictly true I think. Sure, Linux can't run without a PC but does that mean it can't exist without one? Linux started its existence in Torvalds' head before it appeared on a CPU and if all CPUs vanished tomorrow it would still exist in his and other experts heads.There's a funny sort of ontology here.Linus wrote Linux because he was inspired by Andrew Tanenbaum's Minix. Andrew Tanenbaum developed Minix on a PC using Coherent, a UNIX clone from the Mark Williams Company, because it provided the necessarytools.It also provided an existence proof, but he didn't really needthat.Coherent was the brainchild of Bob Swartz, but it wasoriginally developed on a DEC PDP-11 and ported to the Zilog Z8000 before the 8086 or the IBM PC existed.The Mark Williams Companyitself was originally a subsidiary of Embosograph founded to market a7-Up knockoff soft drink formula called Dr. Enuf.Coherent waswritten by a core of students from the University of Waterloo, working in Chicago under sometimes questionable immigration status.The worktook place in a huge brick building at 1430 West Wrightwood which hadthe word Teletype engraved over the entrances.But the onlyprofitable part of this family commercial empire was Embosograph itself and its profits derived from the manufacture of plastic beersigns, embossed graphics on plastic augmented by lights and waterfallillusions.So beer rating, or the rating of the fizzy alcoholic beverage which many americans call beer, is where Linux started.-- rec --FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listservMeets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org-- Doug Roberts, RTI International [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]505-455-7333 - Office505-670-8195 - Cell FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] computer models of the mind
There was actually a series of brain simulations done a few years ago. While the original site is gone, it has been archived: *http://tinyurl.com/6heev* For example: * http://tinyurl.com/q5oa4 Best, Martin * FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
