Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

2016-12-04 Thread Carl Tollander 
Well, it *is* a 2010 paper.   Still relevant to the current contretemps I
think.

The more recent article (which I found to be fun but a bit less coherent
(see, how that works!) is at:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160421-the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality/
Atlantic picked it up later.

Can anyone really talk to anyone?   I'm thinking about compositionality and
languages and Open Source Insurgencies:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks_compositionality/
and
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/thermo/pollard_santa_fe.pdf
and
hmm, Google "open source warfare" (careful now)
and, one of my favorites right now is how very local traditional musics and
oral traditions get transformed into and by different cultural processes:
(this will be Japanese to most folks, apologies sort of)
https://estoestaiko.com/2015/12/07/chichibu-yatai-bayashi/

Carl






Carl


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Carl –
>
>
>
> I would have thought that these results had been shown years ago,
> particularly with respect to self perception.  There is probably very
> little harm in quite a lot of over self-confidence.
>
>
>
> Interestingly, there’s an old result from years ago that married couples
> who are balmy about each other’s capacities do better than couples who are
> more realistic.
>
>
>
> It’s good to hear from you.
>
>
>
> nICK
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl
> Tollander
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 9:37 PM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen |
> NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
>
>
> Got this from an link from the Hoffman article in the Atlantic on
> "reality".  Regardless of the niftiness of the paper, I think it's
> interesting that somebody is using games to model how truth has come to
> fare so badly in our politics.  Talks up some varieties of realism, so, hi,
> Nick.
>
>
>
> http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/PerceptualEvolution.pdf
>
>
>
> If there is anything to this, my reading is that paywalls and "click here
> to disable your ad blocker before you can continue reading" sorts of
> activities by online media are a strong disservice to the polity and need
> to come down.
>
>
>
> This is also stimulating some thought on" lingusitic determinism" vs
> "linguistic relativism" brought up by the "Arrival" movie.  Never been much
> for "deep structure" linguistic theories.
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM
> mails, for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles
> response?).
>
>
>
> From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is
> interesting, whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy,
> or even some kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or
> fascism, because all these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are
> all sorts of fascisms, similar to the many different forms of cancer.
>
>
>
> From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he
> is obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as
> a character trait.
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-
> mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
>
>
>
> As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the
> next 4 years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup
> when people recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way
> back into a glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some
> kind of staged event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian
> state.
>
>
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Merle Lefkoff 
>
> Date: 12/4/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR
> Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
>
>
> Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors
> and to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's
> wonderfully written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed
> conversation."  I think because of Complexity science I actually did
> imagine the future that has happened--starting about three years ago.
> We've been organizing the ECOS gathering for almost two years (put on hold
> because of the elections), and now we're organized and ready to go.  We
> need local volunteers to help with the final planning.  Let me know if you
> are interested.
>
>
>
> The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org.

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

2016-12-04 Thread Nick Thompson 
Carl –

 

I would have thought that these results had been shown years ago, particularly 
with respect to self perception.  There is probably very little harm in quite a 
lot of over self-confidence.  

 

Interestingly, there’s an old result from years ago that married couples who 
are balmy about each other’s capacities do better than couples who are more 
realistic.  

 

It’s good to hear from you.  

 

nICK

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 9:37 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR 
Daily | The New York Review of Books

 

Got this from an link from the Hoffman article in the Atlantic on "reality".  
Regardless of the niftiness of the paper, I think it's interesting that 
somebody is using games to model how truth has come to fare so badly in our 
politics.  Talks up some varieties of realism, so, hi, Nick.

 

http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/PerceptualEvolution.pdf

 

If there is anything to this, my reading is that paywalls and "click here to 
disable your ad blocker before you can continue reading" sorts of activities by 
online media are a strong disservice to the polity and need to come down.

 

This is also stimulating some thought on" lingusitic determinism" vs 
"linguistic relativism" brought up by the "Arrival" movie.  Never been much for 
"deep structure" linguistic theories.  

 

Carl 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jochen Fromm  > wrote:

Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM mails, 
for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles response?). 

 

>From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is interesting, 
>whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy, or even some 
>kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or fascism, because all 
>these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are all sorts of fascisms, 
>similar to the many different forms of cancer. 

 

>From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he is 
>obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as a 
>character trait.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

 

As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the next 4 
years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup when people 
recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way back into a 
glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some kind of staged 
event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian state. 

 

-Jochen

 

 

 Original message 

From: Merle Lefkoff  > 

Date: 12/4/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00) 

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  > 

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR 
Daily | The New York Review of Books 

 

Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors and 
to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's wonderfully 
written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed conversation."  I think 
because of Complexity science I actually did imagine the future that has 
happened--starting about three years ago.  We've been organizing the ECOS 
gathering for almost two years (put on hold because of the elections), and now 
we're organized and ready to go.  We need local volunteers to help with the 
final planning.  Let me know if you are interested.

 

The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org  
.  The ECOS website is:  ecosgathering.org  .

 

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:

Any, 

 

This article begins a badly needed conversation about what resistance must look 
like. 

 

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

 

Nick



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove





 

-- 

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy

​Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA​


Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding

Saint Paul University

Ottawa, Canada​

 

 


merlelef...@gmail.com

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

2016-12-04 Thread Carl Tollander 
Got this from an link from the Hoffman article in the Atlantic on
"reality".  Regardless of the niftiness of the paper, I think it's
interesting that somebody is using games to model how truth has come to
fare so badly in our politics.  Talks up some varieties of realism, so, hi,
Nick.

http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/PerceptualEvolution.pdf

If there is anything to this, my reading is that paywalls and "click here
to disable your ad blocker before you can continue reading" sorts of
activities by online media are a strong disservice to the polity and need
to come down.

This is also stimulating some thought on" lingusitic determinism" vs
"linguistic relativism" brought up by the "Arrival" movie.  Never been much
for "deep structure" linguistic theories.

Carl


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM
> mails, for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles
> response?).
>
> From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is
> interesting, whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy,
> or even some kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or
> fascism, because all these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are
> all sorts of fascisms, similar to the many different forms of cancer.
>
> From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he
> is obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as
> a character trait.
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-
> mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
>
> As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the
> next 4 years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup
> when people recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way
> back into a glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some
> kind of staged event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian
> state.
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Merle Lefkoff 
> Date: 12/4/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR
> Daily | The New York Review of Books
>
> Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors
> and to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's
> wonderfully written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed
> conversation."  I think because of Complexity science I actually did
> imagine the future that has happened--starting about three years ago.
> We've been organizing the ECOS gathering for almost two years (put on hold
> because of the elections), and now we're organized and ready to go.  We
> need local volunteers to help with the final planning.  Let me know if you
> are interested.
>
> The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org.  The ECOS website is:
> ecosgathering.org.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>> Any,
>>
>>
>>
>> This article begins a badly needed conversation about what resistance
>> must look like.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autoc
>> racy-rules-for-survival/
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> ​Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA​
>
> Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
> Saint Paul University
> Ottawa, Canada​
>
>
>
> merlelef...@gmail.com
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.llfkoff2
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

2016-12-04 Thread Jochen Fromm 
Yes, looks interesting (somehow my mail client does not show all FRIAM mails, 
for instance I don't see Nicks mails, I have only received Merles response?). 
From a complexity science viewpoint the development in the US is interesting, 
whether it will be a step back into an oligarchy or autocracy, or even some 
kind of cronyism, nepotism, nationalism, imperialism or fascism, because all 
these *-isms are like a cancer for society. There are all sorts of fascisms, 
similar to the many different forms of cancer. 
From a psychological perspective Mr. Trump is interesting too because he is 
obviously not a normal politician. Narcissism is mentioned frequently as a 
character 
trait.http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
As a European from a continent with a troubled past I'm worried that the next 4 
years will not turn out well. There will be an unpleasant wakeup when people 
recognize they have been betrayed and there is no peaceful way back into a 
glorified past in a globalized world. I bet there will be some kind of staged 
event which will lead to the next war or a totalitarian state. 
-Jochen

 Original message From: Merle Lefkoff  
Date: 12/4/16  21:57  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity 
Coffee Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for 
Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books 
Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors and 
to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's wonderfully 
written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed conversation."  I think 
because of Complexity science I actually did imagine the future that has 
happened--starting about three years ago.  We've been organizing the ECOS 
gathering for almost two years (put on hold because of the elections), and now 
we're organized and ready to go.  We need local volunteers to help with the 
final planning.  Let me know if you are interested.
The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org.  The ECOS website is:  
ecosgathering.org.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson  
wrote:
Any,  This article begins a badly needed conversation about what resistance 
must look like.  
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/
 Nick


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy​Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA​
Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
Saint Paul UniversityOttawa, Canada​


merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.llfkoff2


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Autocracy: Rules for Survival | by Masha Gessen | NYR Daily | The New York Review of Books

2016-12-04 Thread Merle Lefkoff 
Nick, thanks so much for sending this. I just sent it to one of our donors
and to my Canadian grad students and to our social network.  It's
wonderfully written, although hardly "beginning a badly needed
conversation."  I think because of Complexity science I actually did
imagine the future that has happened--starting about three years ago.
We've been organizing the ECOS gathering for almost two years (put on hold
because of the elections), and now we're organized and ready to go.  We
need local volunteers to help with the final planning.  Let me know if you
are interested.

The Center's web site is:  emergentdiplomacy.org.  The ECOS website is:
ecosgathering.org.

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Any,
>
>
>
> This article begins a badly needed conversation about what resistance must
> look like.
>
>
>
> http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-
> autocracy-rules-for-survival/
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
​Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA​

Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding
Saint Paul University
Ottawa, Canada​



merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.llfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove