Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin?
Nick Thompson may deny being a proper social psychologist but he certainly hung about with social psychologists for enough years that his remarks on such matters as cognitive biases and group think--should he choose to make any--would be well worth attending to (if only to determine a basepoint for subsequent jeering). And his admitted expertise in ethology and primatology might be apposite too. So pipe up, Nick. Lee Rudolph On 23 Mar 2010 at 10:32, Ted Carmichael wrote: That actually sounds cool. There's probably a lot of potential to work on stuff that includes cognitive biases and group think and such. You ever read Richard Feynman's take on the Challenger disaster? Might be a good reference for you ... probably, you can find it in one of his books, where he talks about it at length. It's an interesting story in and of itself. Have fun! -Ted On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: Thanks for the responses and the advice, I hope to work my way through the unusual protocols. I am trying to reply to Stephen Thompson and Ted Carmichael. I could not find a Reply button on the Friam newsgroup pages. You could say I have a pretty classic (Basic) background in Biology and Engineering. I have always been very uneasy with the concept of species and groups in general. I have run into a few examples in entomology that seem to bend the rules quite a bit and then there are the orchid hybrids that seem to make a mockery of speciation. I am interested in the phenomenon of Group Thinking Amusingly I dispute the existence of groups and thinking in this case. Perhaps the observer had an unintentional bias. I recently heard of a psychological situation referred to as the Abilene Experiment I hope I got it right. I would like to play with the agents to reproduce bizarre human social behavior. This may seem flaky but I would love to work with defective agents that appear externally normal. Coming from years of engineering work I am always amazed at the nature of accidents, complex system failures. Inevitably people seem to be at fault because they believed they were right at the wrong time. Even after an accident they insist some one else was to blame. Perfectly sane people believe in the most absurd ideas at the wrong time. It has made me suspect that there is a limit to how complex any system can get before it collapses, which has frightening implications. Well thanks gentlemen and I will report back on my progress with NetLogo. I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! *Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky* *Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology)* *120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.* *Winnipeg, Manitoba* *CANADA R2J 3R2* *(204) 2548321 Phone/Fax* *vbur...@shaw.ca* vbur...@shaw.ca -Original Message- *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Thompson *Sent:* March 21, 2010 9:40 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Vladimyr: I am a lurker on this site listening to interesting ideas. I recently started looking into agent-based systems. I started out with a Teaching Company lecture series entitled Understanding Complexity by Prof Scott Page. He is a visiting Prof at Sante Fe. The course is just introductory content without any computational exercises. (www.TeachingCompany.com) Its a great introduction to the field. Its a nice way pass the morning commute. Dr Page suggested the following books as well: Agent-Based Models by Nigel Gilbert Simulation for the Social Scientist by Nigel Gilbert and Klaus G Troitzsch Complexity A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell I added another book Dr. Page was too modest to suggest: Complex Adaptive Systems: An Into to Computational Models of Social Life. by John Miller and Scott Page. I also downloaded the NetLogo system, but as yet have not installed it. I recently came across a web-site by a regular member of this forum, Owen Densmore. Its at http://complexityworkshop.com/ I have not explored it yet. My background is in mortgage finance. Sorry nothing interesting like default swaps, just old fashioned commercial mortgage loans. I recently completed a degree in software engineering so I am looking forward to the programming aspects of agents. I do this on my own time, so I have been focusing on more of the background before I start the computational aspects. Steph T Ted Carmichael wrote: Hey, Vladimyr - I'm not in Santa Fe - I'm at UNC Charlotte, near the other coast - but I also work with complex systems and such. If you're not familiar with it, NetLogo is an excellent toolset for rapid
Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin?
Nick actually wrote an yet-unpublished paper about cognitive blindness to complex explanations of group phenomenon (i.e., our bias towards asserting that specific individuals were responsible for whatever happened). I have a copy around here somewhere if people were interested (and Nick did not object). Eric On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:43 AM, lrudo...@meganet.net wrote: Nick Thompson may deny being a proper social psychologist but he certainly hung about with social psychologists for enough years that his remarks on such matters as cognitive biases and group think--should he choose to make any--would be well worth attending to (if only to determine a basepoint for subsequent jeering). And his admitted expertise in ethology and primatology might be apposite too. So pipe up, Nick. Lee Rudolph On 23 Mar 2010 at 10:32, Ted Carmichael wrote: That actually sounds cool. There's probably a lot of potential to work on stuff that includes cognitive biases and group think and such. You ever read Richard Feynman's take on the Challenger disaster? Might be a good reference for you ... probably, you can find it in one of his books, where he talks about it at length. It's an interesting story in and of itself. Have fun! -Ted On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: Thanks for the responses and the advice, I hope to work my way through the unusual protocols. I am trying to reply to Stephen Thompson and Ted Carmichael. I could not find a Reply button on the Friam newsgroup pages. You could say I have a pretty classic (Basic) background in Biology and Engineering. I have always been very uneasy with the concept of species and groups in general. I have run into a few examples in entomology that seem to bend the rules quite a bit and then there are the orchid hybrids that seem to make a mockery of speciation. I am interested in the phenomenon of Group Thinking Amusingly I dispute the existence of groups and thinking in this case. Perhaps the observer had an unintentional bias. I recently heard of a psychological situation referred to as the Abilene Experiment I hope I got it right. I would like to play with the agents to reproduce bizarre human social behavior. This may seem flaky but I would love to work with defective agents that appear externally normal. Coming from years of engineering work I am always amazed at the nature of accidents, complex system failures. Inevitably people seem to be at fault because they believed they were right at the wrong time. Even after an accident they insist some one else was to blame. Perfectly sane people believe in the most absurd ideas at the wrong time. It has made me suspect that there is a limit to how complex any system can get before it collapses, which has frightening implications. Well thanks gentlemen and I will report back on my progress with NetLogo. I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! *Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky* *Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology)* *120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.* *Winnipeg, Manitoba* *CANADA R2J 3R2* *(204) 2548321 Phone/Fax* *vbur...@shaw.ca* vbur...@shaw.ca -Original Message- *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Thompson *Sent:* March 21, 2010 9:40 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Vladimyr: I am a lurker on this site listening to interesting ideas. I recently started looking into agent-based systems. I started out with a Teaching Company lecture series entitled Understanding Complexity by Prof Scott Page. He is a visiting Prof at Sante Fe. The course is just introductory content without any computational exercises. (www.TeachingCompany.com) Its a great introduction to the field. Its a nice way pass the morning commute. Dr Page suggested the following books as well: Agent-Based Models by Nigel Gilbert Simulation for the Social Scientist by Nigel Gilbert and Klaus G Troitzsch Complexity A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell I added another book Dr. Page was too modest to suggest: Complex Adaptive Systems: An Into to Computational Models of Social Life. by John Miller and Scott Page. I also downloaded the NetLogo system, but as yet have not installed it. I recently came across a web-site by a regular member of this forum, Owen Densmore. Its at http://complexityworkshop.com/ I have not explored it yet. My background is in mortgage finance. Sorry nothing interesting like default swaps, just old fashioned commercial mortgage loans. I recently completed a degree in software engineering so I am looking forward to the programming aspects of agents. I do this on my own
Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin?
Eric, I certainly don't object. I am not sure I have a copy of that paper myself. Seeing it would be like meeting an old friend in the Philadephia railway station.. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] - Original Message - From: ERIC P. CHARLES To: lrudo...@meganet.net Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: 3/23/2010 9:28:38 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Nick actually wrote an yet-unpublished paper about cognitive blindness to complex explanations of group phenomenon (i.e., our bias towards asserting that specific individuals were responsible for whatever happened). I have a copy around here somewhere if people were interested (and Nick did not object). Eric On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:43 AM, lrudo...@meganet.net wrote: Nick Thompson may deny being a proper social psychologist but he certainly hung about with social psychologists for enough years that his remarks on such matters as cognitive biases and group think--should he choose to make any--would be well worth attending to (if only to determine a basepoint for subsequent jeering). And his admitted expertise in ethology and primatology might be apposite too. So pipe up, Nick. Lee Rudolph On 23 Mar 2010 at 10:32, Ted Carmichael wrote: That actually sounds cool. There's probably a lot of potential to work on stuff that includes cognitive biases and group think and such. You ever read Richard Feynman's take on the Challenger disaster? Might be a good reference for you ... probably, you can find it in one of his books, where he talks about it at length. It's an interesting story in and of itself. Have fun! -Ted On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: Thanks for the responses and the advice, I hope to work my way through the unusual protocols. I am trying to reply to Stephen Thompson and Ted Carmichael. I could not find a Reply button on the Friam newsgroup pages. You could say I have a pretty classic (Basic) background in Biology and Engineering. I have always been very uneasy with the concept of species and groups in general. I have run into a few examples in entomology that seem to bend the rules quite a bit and then there are the orchid hybrids that seem to make a mockery of speciation. I am interested in the phenomenon of Group Thinking Amusingly I dispute the existence of groups and thinking in this case. Perhaps the observer had an unintentional bias. I recently heard of a psychological situation referred to as the Abilene Experiment I hope I got it right. I would like to play with the agents to reproduce bizarre human social behavior. This may seem flaky but I would love to work with defective agents that appear externally normal. Coming from years of engineering work I am always amazed at the nature of accidents, complex system failures. Inevitably people seem to be at fault because they believed they were right at the wrong time. Even after an accident they insist some one else was to blame. Perfectly sane people believe in the most absurd ideas at the wrong time. It has made me suspect that there is a limit to how complex any system can get before it collapses, which has frightening implications. Well thanks gentlemen and I will report back on my progress with NetLogo. I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! *Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky* *Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology)* *120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.* *Winnipeg, Manitoba* *CANADA R2J 3R2* *(204) 2548321 Phone/Fax* *vbur...@shaw.ca* vbur...@shaw.ca -Original Message- *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Thompson *Sent:* March 21, 2010 9:40 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Vladimyr: I am a lurker on this site listening to interesting ideas. I recently started looking into agent-based systems. I started out with a Teaching Company lecture series entitled Understanding Complexity by Prof Scott Page. He is a visiting Prof at Sante Fe. The course is just introductory content without any computational exercises. (www.TeachingCompany.com) Its a great introduction to the field. Its a nice way pass the morning commute. Dr Page suggested the following books as well: Agent-Based Models by Nigel Gilbert Simulation for the Social Scientist by Nigel Gilbert and Klaus G Troitzsch Complexity A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell I added another book Dr. Page was too modest to suggest: Complex Adaptive Systems
Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin?
Vladamir wrote -- I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! On the contrary, Vladamir. It is their stupidity that makes autonomous agents so theoretically endearing. Thanks for stirring us all up! Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] - Original Message - From: Ted Carmichael To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: 3/23/2010 8:33:04 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? That actually sounds cool. There's probably a lot of potential to work on stuff that includes cognitive biases and group think and such. You ever read Richard Feynman's take on the Challenger disaster? Might be a good reference for you ... probably, you can find it in one of his books, where he talks about it at length. It's an interesting story in and of itself. Have fun! -Ted On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: Thanks for the responses and the advice, I hope to work my way through the unusual protocols. I am trying to reply to Stephen Thompson and Ted Carmichael. I could not find a Reply button on the Friam newsgroup pages. You could say I have a pretty classic (Basic) background in Biology and Engineering. I have always been very uneasy with the concept of species and groups in general. I have run into a few examples in entomology that seem to bend the rules quite a bit and then there are the orchid hybrids that seem to make a mockery of speciation. I am interested in the phenomenon of Group Thinking Amusingly I dispute the existence of groups and thinking in this case. Perhaps the observer had an unintentional bias. I recently heard of a psychological situation referred to as the Abilene Experiment I hope I got it right. I would like to play with the agents to reproduce bizarre human social behavior. This may seem flaky but I would love to work with defective agents that appear externally normal. Coming from years of engineering work I am always amazed at the nature of accidents, complex system failures. Inevitably people seem to be at fault because they believed they were right at the wrong time. Even after an accident they insist some one else was to blame. Perfectly sane people believe in the most absurd ideas at the wrong time. It has made me suspect that there is a limit to how complex any system can get before it collapses, which has frightening implications. Well thanks gentlemen and I will report back on my progress with NetLogo. I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology) 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA R2J 3R2 (204) 2548321 Phone/Fax vbur...@shaw.ca -Original Message- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Thompson Sent: March 21, 2010 9:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Vladimyr: I am a lurker on this site listening to interesting ideas. I recently started looking into agent-based systems. I started out with a Teaching Company lecture series entitled Understanding Complexity by Prof Scott Page. He is a visiting Prof at Sante Fe. The course is just introductory content without any computational exercises. (www.TeachingCompany.com) Its a great introduction to the field. Its a nice way pass the morning commute. Dr Page suggested the following books as well: Agent-Based Models by Nigel Gilbert Simulation for the Social Scientist by Nigel Gilbert and Klaus G Troitzsch Complexity A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell I added another book Dr. Page was too modest to suggest: Complex Adaptive Systems: An Into to Computational Models of Social Life. by John Miller and Scott Page. I also downloaded the NetLogo system, but as yet have not installed it. I recently came across a web-site by a regular member of this forum, Owen Densmore. Its at http://complexityworkshop.com/ I have not explored it yet. My background is in mortgage finance. Sorry nothing interesting like default swaps, just old fashioned commercial mortgage loans. I recently completed a degree in software engineering so I am looking forward to the programming aspects of agents. I do this on my own time, so I have been focusing on more of the background before I start the computational aspects. Steph T Ted Carmichael wrote: Hey, Vladimyr - I'm not in Santa Fe - I'm at UNC Charlotte, near the other coast - but I also work with complex systems and such. If you're not familiar with it, NetLogo is an excellent toolset for rapid prototyping of agent-based systems. They continually update it, it's free
Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin?
Thanks for the responses and the advice, I hope to work my way through the unusual protocols. I am trying to reply to Stephen Thompson and Ted Carmichael. I could not find a Reply button on the Friam newsgroup pages. You could say I have a pretty classic (Basic) background in Biology and Engineering. I have always been very uneasy with the concept of species and groups in general. I have run into a few examples in entomology that seem to bend the rules quite a bit and then there are the orchid hybrids that seem to make a mockery of speciation. I am interested in the phenomenon of Group Thinking Amusingly I dispute the existence of groups and thinking in this case. Perhaps the observer had an unintentional bias. I recently heard of a psychological situation referred to as the Abilene Experiment I hope I got it right. I would like to play with the agents to reproduce bizarre human social behavior. This may seem flaky but I would love to work with defective agents that appear externally normal. Coming from years of engineering work I am always amazed at the nature of accidents, complex system failures. Inevitably people seem to be at fault because they believed they were right at the wrong time. Even after an accident they insist some one else was to blame. Perfectly sane people believe in the most absurd ideas at the wrong time. It has made me suspect that there is a limit to how complex any system can get before it collapses, which has frightening implications. Well thanks gentlemen and I will report back on my progress with NetLogo. I must be the first ever to wish to program stupid autonomous agents! Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology) 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA R2J 3R2 (204) 2548321 Phone/Fax mailto:vbur...@shaw.ca vbur...@shaw.ca -Original Message- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Thompson Sent: March 21, 2010 9:40 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to Begin? Vladimyr: I am a lurker on this site listening to interesting ideas. I recently started looking into agent-based systems. I started out with a Teaching Company lecture series entitled Understanding Complexity by Prof Scott Page. He is a visiting Prof at Sante Fe. The course is just introductory content without any computational exercises. (www.TeachingCompany.com) Its a great introduction to the field. Its a nice way pass the morning commute. Dr Page suggested the following books as well: Agent-Based Models by Nigel Gilbert Simulation for the Social Scientist by Nigel Gilbert and Klaus G Troitzsch Complexity A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell I added another book Dr. Page was too modest to suggest: Complex Adaptive Systems: An Into to Computational Models of Social Life. by John Miller and Scott Page. I also downloaded the NetLogo system, but as yet have not installed it. I recently came across a web-site by a regular member of this forum, Owen Densmore. Its at http://complexityworkshop.com/ http://complexityworkshop.com/ I have not explored it yet. My background is in mortgage finance. Sorry nothing interesting like default swaps, just old fashioned commercial mortgage loans. I recently completed a degree in software engineering so I am looking forward to the programming aspects of agents. I do this on my own time, so I have been focusing on more of the background before I start the computational aspects. Steph T Ted Carmichael wrote: Hey, Vladimyr - I'm not in Santa Fe - I'm at UNC Charlotte, near the other coast - but I also work with complex systems and such. If you're not familiar with it, NetLogo is an excellent toolset for rapid prototyping of agent-based systems. They continually update it, it's free, and there's tons of support, so you can learn programming pretty easily in it. A good book might be M. Mitchell's newest: Complexity: A Guided Tour. Well written and thorough. Also, I always recommend Steve Johnson's Emergence: The Connected Lives of Ants, Brains, Cities, and Software. A little more towards the general audience, but some excellent examples of CAS. I'm sure others will have some good recommends as well. Good luck! -Ted On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: Hi, I am interested in communicating with people already working with Complexity. As a scientist formerly working in epidemiology and more recently in robotics, I have become increasingly interested in Non-linear problems. Unfortunately my background is basically inappropriate and would like a little advice on how to get set up working with Autonomous Agents. Hopefully, some one can provide a little guidance. My background is rather complex and does include some programming efforts over the years
