Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
I think we all should be football players - there're g8 salaries, early retirement and they can date models…J Kind Regards, Elad Shapira (Zest) On 7/17/07, Stack Smasher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes earnest question indeed, one that is easily answered by using Google. I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Oh and being a sadomasochistic lurker on E-Mail lists is acceptable? On 7/17/07, blah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure I agree with Jared. I think you might find Stack's suggestions especially satisfying - be a dentist or a chiropracter! I mean, just think of all the creative ways you could deal with condescending, arrogant jerks who are incapable of helping someone with an earnest question? I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Good times indeed. On 7/17/07, Jared DeMott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Михал Потапыч wrote: If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're dreaming big. like i said offline, go for it! jared ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- If you see me laughing, you better have backups ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
yeah, and by the time you reach 50 yrs. old just think! you can have headaches all the time, you hobble around on busted knees, eat lots of pain killers, and your whole existence is centered around trying to look function like a normal person... groovy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Elad Shapira Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:15 AM To: Stack Smasher Cc: blah; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education I think we all should be football players - there're g8 salaries, early retirement and they can date models… J Kind Regards, Elad Shapira (Zest) On 7/17/07, Stack Smasher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes earnest question indeed, one that is easily answered by using Google. I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Oh and being a sadomasochistic lurker on E-Mail lists is acceptable? On 7/17/07, blah [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure I agree with Jared. I think you might find Stack's suggestions especially satisfying - be a dentist or a chiropracter! I mean, just think of all the creative ways you could deal with condescending, arrogant jerks who are incapable of helping someone with an earnest question? I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Good times indeed. On 7/17/07, Jared DeMott [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Михал Потапыч wrote: If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're dreaming big. like i said offline, go for it! jared ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ http://secunia.com/ -- If you see me laughing, you better have backups ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
I am looking to *become* a security consultant(*White hat*) And then: don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're *dreaming big*. Oh my God! ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Gravity is a myth, the Earth sucks. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
I just read this thread... there's certainly some good advice there... and the requisite goading by some of the more sardonic personalities on the list... always a pleasure. I'm no infosec guru by any means, but as a developer I have more than a passing interest in the field. Which unfortunately is the exception rather than the rule in this business. I read this list every day, and others as well and one thing I can say for sure is that you're aiming for a fast moving target... but not an impossible one to hit. Dude said: If you want to be a good Security Consultant at the Technical level it is important that you have a smattering of everything: programming networking, administration, etc.. If you walk into a place and expect to start telling people what to do, you should at least have walked a mile in their shoes before doing so. This means learning Lotus, Exchange, Sendmail, Oracle, MySQL and MSSQL, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Windows, etc, ad infinitum. That's probably the best advice I've seen in this thread. I've been a developer/programmer for almost seven years now and have walked in most, but _not all_ of those shoes, and it really doesn't ever end. My one grain of advice... make sure you LOVE this work, and love it for it's own sake, or because (like me) you find some intangible reward in it that you can't really explain. Do not get into this business simply for money, fame, or anything like that. Infosec, development, networking, and their various levels of related engineering are the type of jobs that follow you home at night. If you sleep, this shit will follow you into your dreams. You are not choosing a 9-5 leave it at the office when you go home career. Love it or leave it else it will destroy you. Choose wisely, and good luck! Peace. Evan Pitstick wrote: I did not intend to start some kind of flame war on the mailing list, and I certainly don't intend to perpetuate it. However, I do want to make it clear that I was looking for advice from professionals in the field. I find questions like the best of something often is misleading in simple google searches. Things like advertising and special interest usually cloud the answers. Thanks to everyone who has sent me helpful replies. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- ''' 0-0- ~ ` ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
thus Troy spake: I just read this thread... there's certainly some good advice there... and the requisite goading by some of the more sardonic personalities on the list... always a pleasure. I'm no infosec guru by any means, but as a developer I have more than a passing interest in the field. Which unfortunately is the exception rather than the rule in this business. I read this list every day, and others as well and one thing I can say for sure is that you're aiming for a fast moving target... but not an impossible one to hit. Dude said: If you want to be a good Security Consultant at the Technical level it is important that you have a smattering of everything: programming networking, administration, etc.. If you walk into a place and expect to start telling people what to do, you should at least have walked a mile in their shoes before doing so. This means learning Lotus, Exchange, Sendmail, Oracle, MySQL and MSSQL, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Windows, etc, ad infinitum. That's probably the best advice I've seen in this thread. I've been a developer/programmer for almost seven years now and have walked in most, but _not all_ of those shoes, and it really doesn't ever end. (...) To sum it up: Know both your friends AND your enemies... :) Timo ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Help with education
I am looking to become a security consultant(White hat) in a few years and I was looking for some advice on the best certifications to get, graduate level schools and majors, and any web sites that will continue to help me along my path. I am currently a student at a school in Atlanta, USA for Information Security and Assurance. Any ideas? ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
http://www.giac.org/ is one way to head for certifications. education in general; well there is plenty of information on the interweb. pick a subject and search for it (rootkits, reverse engineering, assembly, xss, sql, protocols [lots], firewalls, ids, ips, acl, encryption, hashing .) On 7/18/07, Evan Pitstick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am looking to become a security consultant(White hat) in a few years and I was looking for some advice on the best certifications to get, graduate level schools and majors, and any web sites that will continue to help me along my path. I am currently a student at a school in Atlanta, USA for Information Security and Assurance. Any ideas? ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- mike http://lets.coozi.com.au/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 10:19 -0400, Evan Pitstick wrote: I am looking to become a security consultant(White hat) in a few years and I was looking for some advice on the best certifications to get, graduate level schools and majors, and any web sites that will continue to help me along my path. I am currently a student at a school in Atlanta, USA for Information Security and Assurance. Any ideas? ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- tmp ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
Михал Потапыч wrote: If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're dreaming big. like i said offline, go for it! jared ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
I'm not sure I agree with Jared. I think you might find Stack's suggestions especially satisfying - be a dentist or a chiropracter! I mean, just think of all the creative ways you could deal with condescending, arrogant jerks who are incapable of helping someone with an earnest question? I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Good times indeed. On 7/17/07, Jared DeMott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Михал Потапыч wrote: If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're dreaming big. like i said offline, go for it! jared ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
Yes earnest question indeed, one that is easily answered by using Google. I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Oh and being a sadomasochistic lurker on E-Mail lists is acceptable? On 7/17/07, blah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure I agree with Jared. I think you might find Stack's suggestions especially satisfying - be a dentist or a chiropracter! I mean, just think of all the creative ways you could deal with condescending, arrogant jerks who are incapable of helping someone with an earnest question? I'd love to be a dentist or a chiropractor with either of them sitting in a chair at my office. Good times indeed. On 7/17/07, Jared DeMott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Михал Потапыч wrote: If these are the kind of questions you ask then perhaps you should reconsider your decision. don't listen bro, there will always be nah-sayers when you're dreaming big. like i said offline, go for it! jared ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- If you see me laughing, you better have backups ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Help with education
I did not intend to start some kind of flame war on the mailing list, and I certainly don't intend to perpetuate it. However, I do want to make it clear that I was looking for advice from professionals in the field. I find questions like the best of something often is misleading in simple google searches. Things like advertising and special interest usually cloud the answers. Thanks to everyone who has sent me helpful replies. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
Ask your question On 7/17/07, Evan Pitstick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not intend to start some kind of flame war on the mailing list, and I certainly don't intend to perpetuate it. However, I do want to make it clear that I was looking for advice from professionals in the field. I find questions like the best of something often is misleading in simple google searches. Things like advertising and special interest usually cloud the answers. Thanks to everyone who has sent me helpful replies. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- http://www.goldwatches.com/watches.asp?Brand=14 http://www.jewelerslounge.com ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
On 7/17/07, Evan Pitstick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am looking to become a security consultant(White hat) in a few years and I was looking for some advice on the best certifications to get, graduate level schools and majors, and any web sites that will continue to help me along my path. I am currently a student at a school in Atlanta, USA for Information Security and Assurance. Any ideas? What kind of Security do you enjoy most, Auditing, Pentesting, Compliance, Programming? I recommend you pick the one you have fun at. If you dont enjoy any of them, be prepared to be unhappy for a long time :-) As far as schools: I hear www.gatech.edu has a really good program, and its in atlanta. as far as certs: CISSP will get you more money, but you will learn more from SANS certs. If you want to be a good Security Consultant at the Technical level it is important that you have a smattering of everything: programming networking, administration, etc.. If you walk into a place and expect to start telling people what to do, you should at least have walked a mile in their shoes before doing so. This means learning Lotus, Exchange, Sendmail, Oracle, MySQL and MSSQL, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Windows, etc, ad infinitum. If you want to be a great infosec person, you need to be able to teach yourself. Much of the territory covered by infosec is new and unexpected ways of using technology. This cant really be taught. hth, -JP ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
hahahahahahahahahahahaha! J On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:01:59 -0400 Dude VanWinkle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/17/07, Evan Pitstick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am looking to become a security consultant(White hat) in a few years and I was looking for some advice on the best certifications to get, graduate level schools and majors, and any web sites that will continue to help me along my path. I am currently a student at a school in Atlanta, USA for Information Security and Assurance. Any ideas? What kind of Security do you enjoy most, Auditing, Pentesting, Compliance, Programming? I recommend you pick the one you have fun at. If you dont enjoy any of them, be prepared to be unhappy for a long time :-) As far as schools: I hear www.gatech.edu has a really good program, and its in atlanta. as far as certs: CISSP will get you more money, but you will learn more from SANS certs. If you want to be a good Security Consultant at the Technical level it is important that you have a smattering of everything: programming networking, administration, etc.. If you walk into a place and expect to start telling people what to do, you should at least have walked a mile in their shoes before doing so. This means learning Lotus, Exchange, Sendmail, Oracle, MySQL and MSSQL, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Windows, etc, ad infinitum. If you want to be a great infosec person, you need to be able to teach yourself. Much of the territory covered by infosec is new and unexpected ways of using technology. This cant really be taught. hth, -JP ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4dCqY4TEf2xY6Jc9LzJAA92f9Fl5OCPuN8FEpGHxkd002x0s/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
