Re: [Full-Disclosure] [PHC] Sermon #3 (w/ reply to Paul Schmehl others)
- Original Message - From: Euan Briggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:52:30 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] [PHC] Sermon #3 (w/ reply to Paul Schmehl others) Sorry to tell you this PHC, but I know who the majority of you are and where you originate from. OMG NO!!! does this mean that my real identity as a transvestite cross-gendered ex-felon stripper who never originated from boston but really comes from a shell that was hatched in the ocean deep has been made public?! oh the embarassment!!! how will the hacker world ever take me seriously again!?! mr euan briggs, PHC isn't just the #phrack@EFnet ops. there are members of PHC who aren't opped on #phrack, some who don't even visit the channel. some who dont even bother with irc like you and i do. but seriously, i'd like to know what you know about me, and where i originate from. i'm comfortable with you revealing this to the list or anywhere else for that matter. my identity is hardly something of a secret these days, but i'm fairly certain you remain without any clue. My work with Snosoft does not mark my entry into the field. To be frank, the reason I entered the whitehat arena, is because I am appalled at what has happened to the blackhat scene. I am appalled by the motives and attitudes of people such as PHC. I am appalled by the behaviour of people like you. I have a conscience and a sense of responsibility, towards my fellow human beings and our society. I want the world to be a better place. I don't see working for the security industry as some sort of betrayal of my blackhat roots, I see it as making a -positive- contribution to society. I see it as paying my debt to society, for the years I spent as a blackhat. Entering the industry was a natural progression. I dont get a kick out of crime, it only brings guilt and it is a rejection of the society that nurtured you, human society which you owe your life to. if this is the case then what have you actually done about it? you constantly whine and gripe about how #phrack is so bad and evil and omg stop them!! but so far your actions to stop #phrack have amounted to zilch, nada, nothing. if you are so eager to talk about how great you are and how right you are, then why not give us some evidence as to why we should believe you. if you're not prepared to show evidence of malicious activities against #phrack or anyone else then shut up about your blackhat roots and your debt to society. i doubt you ever were a blackhat, as you have consistantly shown a lack of skill to back up the lies you tell. You claim to hate the security industry, because you believe they are exploiting hackers and their world. Unless you yourselfs are genuinely being exploited, I would say this part of your rather contradictory manifesto its nothing more than a thin veneer of justification for your delinquent attitudes. As I said in my last post, I think you are just pissed off that you have a motivated and well funded competitor (the industry), and people like you helped create it. *snip* i cant speak for everyone who's against the security industry, just myself. so far my ideology in this whole mess has evolved. as i expanded my investigation into what the problem actually is, i realised that the term anti-security industry didn't really fit me, as i was more about changing the current system for the better... not the worse. like you and just about everyone else on this list i feel a degree of social responsibility when it comes to the matter. but unlike yourself i am not so resistant to change, and the cost of that change. we're learning as we go along here, just like anyone else. plz dont take words that were uttered in the heat of spirited patriotism to be the basis of our arguments. *snap* You claim to be advocating non-disclosure because you believe it will increase security, yet at the same time you claim to be blackhat (implication = criminal) hackers. It doesnt add up. *sigh* i've tried to explain this so many times before. yet again i attempt to simplify everything without making too broad an assumption... yet again do i explain this: blackhat ~= person who advocates non-disclosure. hacks computers. doesn't brag security ~= the likelihood of a system withstanding an attack. at the moment many many ppl have ready access to information on how to compromise security. but a person can only secure their own system. this means that many ppl pose a security risk that few ppl can actually manage. (strong offence versus weak defence) non-disclosure solves this problem. if fewer ppl know about hacks (because blackhats dont talk about them) then fewer systems are threatened because the ratio of attackers:admins is reduced. PLEASE, try and think about it for yourself instead of trying to find all the faults in what i've said. just take a good look with an open and rational mind and work it out for yourself
Re: [Full-Disclosure] [PHC] Sermon #3 (w/ reply to Paul Schmehl others)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 3. Stripey, you speak of the PHC new bloods when you have no knowledge of how long any of us have been online for. Based on how recently you started selling bugs to Snosoft, it's very likely that you're the one who's Only Been Around For A Few Years. You made an important point about the media sensationalizing stories of 'hackers' and whatnot, but you defended the security industry. Based on what we've witnessed over the last decade, the media AND the security industry waltz side by side to reciprocate the generation of sensationalism that keeps both in business... in the security arena. They are the Yin and Yang of hype. Sorry to tell you this PHC, but I know who the majority of you are and where you originate from. My work with Snosoft does not mark my entry into the field. To be frank, the reason I entered the whitehat arena, is because I am appalled at what has happened to the blackhat scene. I am appalled by the motives and attitudes of people such as PHC. I am appalled by the behaviour of people like you. I have a conscience and a sense of responsibility, towards my fellow human beings and our society. I want the world to be a better place. I don't see working for the security industry as some sort of betrayal of my blackhat roots, I see it as making a -positive- contribution to society. I see it as paying my debt to society, for the years I spent as a blackhat. Entering the industry was a natural progression. I dont get a kick out of crime, it only brings guilt and it is a rejection of the society that nurtured you, human society which you owe your life to. You claim to hate the security industry, because you believe they are exploiting hackers and their world. Unless you yourselfs are genuinely being exploited, I would say this part of your rather contradictory manifesto its nothing more than a thin veneer of justification for your delinquent attitudes. As I said in my last post, I think you are just pissed off that you have a motivated and well funded competitor (the industry), and people like you helped create it. Yes I spoke about media sensationalism, but you missed my point entirely. You help stimulate the media attention with your own lust for acknowledgement. The media and the security industry do emphasise risks, but the fuel for their sensationalism is people such as yourself (PHC) who, not satisfied with operating quietly, feel the need to get up on a soapbox and announce to the world that you exist and that you have bad intentions. You constitute a visible testament to the fact that security is an important issue which needs to be tackled, and thus you are simply adding fuel to their fire. You have chosen to step out of the shadows and let the cat out of the bag, and this was the main point of my post. You yourselfs are contributing to increasing the attention of the media on hackers, and the validity of what the security industry is doing. You claim to be advocating non-disclosure because you believe it will increase security, yet at the same time you claim to be blackhat (implication = criminal) hackers. It doesnt add up. You claim that the security industry / full-disclosure has caused an increase in attacks and the threat, but this is not the case. The security industry is infact a -symptom- of, and a response to, your own eagerness to make the fact that you exist known, and this again was the point of my post. We can churn out sermon after sermon, but it will do little good if nobody gives a damn. We're not fools to believe all this talk will do anything great. If you see what we are fighting for, then PLEASE contribute Stuff to the cause, where Stuff can be textfiles, graphics, old AntiSec posts, ideas, constructive criticism, whatever. Nobody gives a damn because you have nothing interesting or useful to say. Nobody gives a damn because you are wrong. You simply want to stop full-disclosure so you can continue your disgruntled teenager soft crime blackhat antics. You want to remove script kids from the scene, not to make the internet more secure, but to restore the prestige and status that true hackers used to have, for your own selfish interests (your ego). You want to feel special again, and not just the generic hacker number 4593845 that you are now. .The security industry and full-disclosure is here to stay. You cannot turn back time, no matter how many textfiles, graphics, old anti-sec posts and accounts (fabricated or otherwise, the lies do you no favours either) of childish attacks against those working in the industry you amass on your website. Your project was doomed to fail from the beginning, it hastens the onset of the very thing you are complaining about. As misfit teenagers, your flawed ideology is understandable to some degree. As adults, you are simply petty criminals, and there is nothing glamorous, sexy, or clever about crime other than the fabricated ideas which the media has blunted
