Re: FVWM: Events when windows close?

2012-01-01 Thread Michael Großer
Thomas Adam wrote:
 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 08:19:10AM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
 I started this for FvwmEvent -- you can see the changes to the manpage here:
 
 http://github.com/ThomasAdam/fvwm/commit/49a53ee408cba26f7649fc4b56df0d309b485cfd
 
 Run that file through man -- see the table produced.  Is that what you
 were after?
 
 Same question, really.  What were your thoughts on my attempt at cleaning up
 the FvwmEvent man page?
 
 It's moot for the format, given my Asciidoc work but I never heard anything
 back on this and I'm sick of seeing it on my TODO list which isn't getting
 any shorter.
 
 -- Thomas Adam

Hi Thomas,

one of the ideas of this thread was that I noticed a list of FvwmEvents
without explanations for the most events. You revised this man-page
and sent a link to your revision. After explaining me how I can
display man pages when they are a file, I finally was able to
view your revision.

You created a table, in which you wrote an explanation for each
FvwmEvent:

http://github.com/ThomasAdam/fvwm/raw/49a53ee408cba26f7649fc4b56df0d309b485cfd/modules/FvwmEvent/FvwmEvent.1.in

My reaction to this table on 2010-08-12, at 03:59 pm was:
 Well, I see a table with the events and the triggers.
 This is good. Well done.

This table with the explanations is good. In case you didn't
made an official man page version out of that draft, I think
you should do it now. You really did what I expected: Writing
an explanation to each item of the list.

Our conversation drifted into a direction where I stated that
I didn't understand the difference between res_class and
res_name.

You answered that only programmers are supposed to understand
the documentation related to res_class and res_name, and that
I should concentrate on something more useful.

So, well, I am a programmer, but since I'm not specialized into
that context, I cannot determine if your answer regarding
res_class and res_name, and the importance of this site,
is right or wrong. Usually, I merely send out an alert signal
by saying that a documentation contains a statement that I do
not understand. It's about you how to interpret that alert
signal.

Another thing that catched my eye today (in order to improve
the quality of this man-page): It contains a statement
about an event called toggle_paging event:

 The toggle_paging event will be supported, as soon, as it's
 resurrected by fvwm:

   *FvwmEvent: toggle_paging fwop.au

This event is absent in the table, and I don't understand the
meaning of the quoted statement.

If you want to help future FVWM users to understand this
toggle_paging event, you could include this event (and all other
missing events) into the table too, and describe them. It's
a suggestion.

Do with my feedback what you want. I recommend to publish
at least your ready work. It were a pity if the table based
idea would disappear into a secret drawer forever.



Any questions to me about that? Since I understand and use the
events that I really need now, my original problem is solved.

Thank you and best regards,
Michael



Re: FVWM: Events when windows close?

2012-01-01 Thread Dan Espen
Michael Großer michael.gros...@gmx.de writes:

 Our conversation drifted into a direction where I stated that
 I didn't understand the difference between res_class and
 res_name.

 You answered that only programmers are supposed to understand
 the documentation related to res_class and res_name, and that
 I should concentrate on something more useful.

I must have missed this conversation.

res_class and res_name are explained in the ICCCM.

For our purposes, they are just 2 of the fields Fvwm uses
for style matching.  Both can be displayed for any window
by FvwmIdent.

-- 
Dan Espen



Re: FVWM: Events when windows close?

2012-01-01 Thread Thomas Adam
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 10:06:33PM +0100, Michael Großer wrote:
 I recommend to recheck this piece of documentation:
 
 +-++
 |res_class||
 | | Runs  when  the   WM_CLASS |
 | | property   of   a   window |
 | | changes.   |
 +-++
 |res_name ||
 | | Runs  when  the   WM_CLASS |
 | | property   of   a   window |
 | | changes  (for  the |
 | | resource). |
 +-++
 
 Since the ICCCM standard clearly contains both a
 WM_CLASS property and a WM_NAME property, the man-page
 reader could think that there is an error when
 WM_CLASS runs res_class and
 WM_CLASS runs res_name.

No.  They both come from the XClassHint struct.   This has nothing to do
with WM_NAME, and the above does not allude to or mention WM_NAME.

 The man-page should explain why not
 WM_NAME does run res_name. Why WM_CLASS?

See above.

 Or is there an error?

See above.

This event, along with res_name, are only useful for things like
add/configure_window events as that's one of the main times such packets are
sent.

Note that it is forbidden by the ICCCM for the class name to be changed once
the window has left the Withdrawn state.

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not. -- Morrissey (Girl Least Likely To -- off of Viva Hate.)



Re: FVWM: Events when windows close?

2012-01-01 Thread Thomas Adam
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 07:17:24PM +0100, Michael Großer wrote:
 This event is absent in the table, and I don't understand the
 meaning of the quoted statement.

Removing it is easier.

-- Thomas Adam

-- 
Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong.  But deep in my heart I know I am
not. -- Morrissey (Girl Least Likely To -- off of Viva Hate.)