RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Eric Marden]

> I totally understand that ZF has a commercial aspect and that it's target 
> audience 
> (at least on the commercial end) is the enterprise and that hopefully it's 
> use in the
> enterprise will help drive it's continued improvement. 
 
Indeed. I'm making the push for us to adopt more of this support for group, at 
least the new Zend Studio for Eclipse, which is super rad by the way. So 
hopefully we can support more in the future, other than just working with it 
and participating in the community. :)
 
 
--
Eric Marden
 





From: Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:32 AM
To: Eric Marden
Cc: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, 
Meets Power


Eric,

Great to hear from an actual enterprise ZF user! I'm not at all 
surprised to see ZF used in the enterprise and to hear that there isn't much 
competition to ZF in this space. Just because (in my guess) the majority of ZF 
users are not enterprise users doesn't mean that enterprise users aren't a very 
important group of ZF users. I totally understand that ZF has a commercial 
aspect and that it's target audience (at least on the commercial end) is the 
enterprise and that hopefully it's use in the enterprise will help drive it's 
continued improvement. It's just that I dislike when the word "enterprise" is 
used as a catch-all phrase. Like I said, if the word "enterprise" is used in a 
context where it truly is meant to speak to enterprise users (not us little 
guys to impress us with how enterprisey it is) then I see that as being 
perfectly fine.


On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Eric Marden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


For the record, I work for an Enterprise and would choose no 
other framework for our work here, even though I'm a fan of other frameworks.
 
And while it has been overused, I believe the connotation for 
most people is that Enterprise means lots of employees helping the company 
generate lots of revenue. In the US these would be your Fortune 1000 companies. 
Just my take on the word I guess.
 
But then again... we lost the word 'hacker' to misuse as well...
 
--
Eric Marden
 




From: Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:34 PM
    To: Joó Ádám
        Cc: Eric Marden; fw-general@lists.zend.com 

Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and 
not Simplicity, Meets Power


Ugh, what the heck is the word enterprise 
<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>  suppose to 
mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the following 
buzzwords, especially in slogans:


*   enterprise 
*   web 2.0 
*   agile (this one isn't quite as bad as it has a 
more clear definition)


These buzzwords can mean many things to different 
people so don't really communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, 
for example, I doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an 
enterprise-size company. "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for 
the commercial end of ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for 
"enterprise" it must be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size 
company, we don't really know what those aspects are so not much is really 
communicated here other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. 
In other words, if your truly saying "enterprise" to directly target actual 
enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as targeting 
those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think that it must 
be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot of great things 
to be said about ZF that are more substantive.


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:


My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.


Regards,
Ádám





-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Bradley Holt]

Eric,

Great to hear from an actual enterprise ZF user! I'm not at all surprised to
see ZF used in the enterprise and to hear that there isn't much competition
to ZF in this space. Just because (in my guess) the majority of ZF users are
not enterprise users doesn't mean that enterprise users aren't a *very
important* group of ZF users. I totally understand that ZF has a commercial
aspect and that it's target audience (at least on the commercial end) is the
enterprise and that hopefully it's use in the enterprise will help drive
it's continued improvement. It's just that I dislike when the word
"enterprise" is used as a catch-all phrase. Like I said, if the word
"enterprise" is used in a context where it truly is meant to speak to
enterprise users (not us little guys to impress us with how enterprisey it
is) then I see that as being perfectly fine.

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Eric Marden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>  For the record, I work for an Enterprise and would choose no other
> framework for our work here, even though I'm a fan of other frameworks.
>
> And while it has been overused, I believe the connotation for most people
> is that Enterprise means lots of employees helping the company generate lots
> of revenue. In the US these would be your Fortune 1000 companies. Just my
> take on the word I guess.
>
> But then again... we lost the word 'hacker' to misuse as well...
>
> --
> Eric Marden
>
>
>  --
> *From:* Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:34 PM
> *To:* Joó Ádám
> *Cc:* Eric Marden; fw-general@lists.zend.com
> *Subject:* Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
> Ugh, what the heck is the word 
> enterprise<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>suppose
>  to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the
> following buzzwords, especially in slogans:
>
>- enterprise
>- web 2.0
>- agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear
>definition)
>
> These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really
> communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I
> doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company.
> "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial* end
> of ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must
> be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't
> really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here
> other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words,
> if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual
> enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as
> targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think
> that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot
> of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive.
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ádám
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bradley Holt
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Eric Marden]

For the record, I work for an Enterprise and would choose no other framework 
for our work here, even though I'm a fan of other frameworks.
 
And while it has been overused, I believe the connotation for most people is 
that Enterprise means lots of employees helping the company generate lots of 
revenue. In the US these would be your Fortune 1000 companies. Just my take on 
the word I guess.
 
But then again... we lost the word 'hacker' to misuse as well...
 
--
Eric Marden
 




From: Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:34 PM
To: Joó Ádám
Cc: Eric Marden; fw-general@lists.zend.com
        Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, 
Meets Power


Ugh, what the heck is the word enterprise 
<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>  suppose to 
mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the following 
buzzwords, especially in slogans:


*   enterprise 
*   web 2.0 
*   agile (this one isn't quite as bad as it has a more clear 
definition)


These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't 
really communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I 
doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company. 
"Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the commercial end of ZF. 
However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must be good. 
But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't really know 
what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here other than, 
"it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words, if your truly 
saying "enterprise" to directly target actual enterprise-size companies, that's 
fine. But it comes across more as targeting those of us who don't work at an 
enterprise-size company but think that it must be good if it's good for 
enterprises. I think there are a lot of great things to be said about ZF that 
are more substantive.


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.


Regards,
Ádám





-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Federico Cargnelutti]

- "A quest for excellence"
- "Scale your ideas"
- "Code less, Develop better"
- "Quality meets Results"
- "The first brick of wisdom"


 --
> *From:* Wil Sinclair [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* 16 April 2008 21:59
> *To:* Robert Castley; fw-general@lists.zend.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
>  Whoa- thanks for pointing the Mambo thing out. I didn't realize there was
> another popular PHP project out there with such a similar tagline. Robert
> must be a great mind- we think alike. ;D
>
> OK, that's one good reason to start rotating out the taglines. BTW, I like
> 'ZF – Simply Fly'. Very unconventional from a marketing standpoint, but when
> you get it, it seems to stick somehow.
>
> Why not "OOP's, we did it again" for the next big release? This would play
> well with the Britney Spears fan contingent of our users. OK, bad joke. No
> need for the -1's. J
>
>
>
> ,Wil
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert Castley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:44 PM
> *To:* fw-general@lists.zend.com
> *Subject:* RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
>
>
> Couldn't resist!
>
>
>
> OOP's, it got easier!
>
>
>
> Wrap up some PHP this 
>
>
>
> Simplify the complex!
>
>
>
>
>
> BTW, Power in Simplicity was the slogan I came up with for Mambo!
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Robert Castley
> *Sent:* 16 April 2008 21:26
> *To:* fw-general@lists.zend.com
> *Subject:* RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
> After a glass of red or two:-
>
>
>
> Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)
>
>
>
> Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly!
>
>
>
> Strengthen your foundations!
>
>
>
> Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)
>
>
>
> I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Robert Castley]

Doh! I missed the Britney gag!
 
 
 
 

  _  

From: Wil Sinclair [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 16 April 2008 21:59
To: Robert Castley; fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets
Power



Whoa- thanks for pointing the Mambo thing out. I didn't realize there was
another popular PHP project out there with such a similar tagline. Robert
must be a great mind- we think alike. ;D

OK, that's one good reason to start rotating out the taglines. BTW, I like
'ZF - Simply Fly'. Very unconventional from a marketing standpoint, but when
you get it, it seems to stick somehow.

Why not "OOP's, we did it again" for the next big release? This would play
well with the Britney Spears fan contingent of our users. OK, bad joke. No
need for the -1's. J

 

,Wil

 

 

From: Robert Castley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:44 PM
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets
Power

 

Couldn't resist!

 

OOP's, it got easier!

 

Wrap up some PHP this 

 

Simplify the complex!

 

 

BTW, Power in Simplicity was the slogan I came up with for Mambo!

 

  _  

From: Robert Castley 
Sent: 16 April 2008 21:26
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets
Power

After a glass of red or two:-

 

Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)

 

Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly! 

 

Strengthen your foundations!

 

Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)

 

I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!

 

 

 

 

 


 



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.




This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.





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Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Wil Sinclair]

Whoa- thanks for pointing the Mambo thing out. I didn't realize there
was another popular PHP project out there with such a similar tagline.
Robert must be a great mind- we think alike. ;D

OK, that's one good reason to start rotating out the taglines. BTW, I
like 'ZF - Simply Fly'. Very unconventional from a marketing standpoint,
but when you get it, it seems to stick somehow.

Why not "OOP's, we did it again" for the next big release? This would
play well with the Britney Spears fan contingent of our users. OK, bad
joke. No need for the -1's. J

 

,Wil

 

 

From: Robert Castley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:44 PM
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
Meets Power

 

Couldn't resist!

 

OOP's, it got easier!

 

Wrap up some PHP this 

 

Simplify the complex!

 

 

BTW, Power in Simplicity was the slogan I came up with for Mambo!

 



From: Robert Castley 
Sent: 16 April 2008 21:26
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
Meets Power

After a glass of red or two:-

 

Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)

 

Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly! 

 

Strengthen your foundations!

 

Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)

 

I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!

 

 

 

 

 


 



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs
Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection
system.



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs
Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection
system.



This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs
Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection
system.

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[photo312]

I dont think that ZF is that simple. I have been learning it for the past
month and its not that easyI think "enterprise-ready" or something like
that would work...



bradley.holt wrote:
> 
> Wil,
> 
> Not that I think there's anything wrong with the existing slogan, but
> since
> you asked for ideas...
> 
> My first thought is that you're trying to communicate simplicity, so your
> slogan should be simple as well. Looking at the Why
> ZF?<http://framework.zend.com/whyzf/>page gives a few keywords that
> nicely describe the positive aspects of ZF.
> Perhaps something as simple as:
> 
> "simplicity, power, productivity"
> 
> or, getting a tad bit clever:
> 
> "simply powerful productivity"
> 
> or, risking complexity:
> 
> "simplicity, power, and productivity for building your web applications"
> 
> or, a different approach all-together:
> 
> "from the PHP company"
> 
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>  Wow. I didn't think this would be such a point of discussion. I hope I
>> can settle this once and for all. It is proper English- "meet" is
>> imperative; "Simplicity" is directly addressing simplicity by name as if
>> it
>> were a person. Take it from someone who double majored in Comparative
>> Literature and Computer Science in college. J
>>
>> In any case, this tagline was never meant to be permanent or the sole
>> slogan associated with ZF. The main point was trying to express ZF's
>> philosophy in a short- hopefully memorable-slogan. In doing so, we hoped
>> to
>> differentiate ZF from the other frameworks and give it a "face". Other
>> slogans were brought up that we may use in the future, perhaps even
>> alongside this one. **But I'd really like to hear what you guys might
>> come
>> up with** for two reasons:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1)  We might end up with some very good slogans to use later.
>>
>> and
>>
>> 2)  I'm extremely curious what our community see as the
>> differentiators for ZF and what ZF means to all of us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest you try
>> to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so that we don't
>> create too much non-technical traffic. And, of course, if we were to use
>> a
>> slogan suggested by a member of the community, we'd have to make sure
>> Zend
>> held the copyright and could trademark it if necessary.
>>
>>
>>
>> ,Wil
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robin Skoglund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:23 AM
>> *To:* fw-general@lists.zend.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
>> Meets Power
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know what English courses you guys have taken, but a comma does
>> not translate into the word "and". It simply states there should be a
>> brief
>> pause before continuing, whereas "John meet Sue" sounds rushed.
>>
>> Simplcity, Meet Power is an excellent slogan in my mind :)
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Joseph Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yea there should be no , that just does not make sense as it translates
>> into
>>
>>
>>
>> John and meet Sue
>>
>>
>>
>> "John meet Sue"  sounds more proper
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Paul Mark wrote:
>>
>>  I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or
>> "John, meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.
>>
>> Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring to
>> people ( it is out of context )and it sounds even more incorrect when
>> applying to abstract or "programming" framework.
>>
>> It just looks unfinished...thats all...
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity
>> Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue"
>> "Simplicity, Meet Power"
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
>> behind this wording. Search the archives :-)
>>
>>
>> On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
>> >
>> >  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  --
>> >  View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
>> >  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>   --
>> Regards,
>> Martin Martinov
>> http://mmartinov.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bradley Holt
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16733211.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[photo312]

Enterprise-strength PHP

I like the above one a lot. !!!



Joó Ádám wrote:
> 
> My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Ádám
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16733184.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Robert Castley]

Couldn't resist!
 
OOP's, it got easier!
 
Wrap up some PHP this 
 
Simplify the complex!
 
 
BTW, Power in Simplicity was the slogan I came up with for Mambo!

  _  

From: Robert Castley 
Sent: 16 April 2008 21:26
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets
Power


After a glass of red or two:-
 
Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)
 
Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly! 
 
Strengthen your foundations!
 
Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)
 
I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!
 
 
 
 
 

 


This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.



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Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Josh Team]

Zend Framework, Way too cool for a slogan.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Robert Castley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>  After a glass of red or two:-
>
> Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)
>
> Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly!
>
> Strengthen your foundations!
>
> Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)
>
> I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.
> 
>

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Robert Castley]

After a glass of red or two:-
 
Why Symphony, when you can simply-fly with ZF? (pun on Simplfy)
 
Looking at the above: ZF - Simply Fly! 
 
Strengthen your foundations!
 
Web 2.0 ... PHP 5.0 (like football/soccer scores!)
 
I could go on, but I will probably be barred from the list!
 
 
 
 
 
 




This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email 
Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system.

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Bradley Holt]

Wil,

Well put. I didn't mean to imply that ZF wasn't enterprise software - I most
certainly think it is (for all the reasons you enumerated and more)! As long
as you're truly using the word "enterprise" to speak to enterprise
customers, then I think it's perfectly fine to use the word. I just don't
like when it's used as a catch-all phrase with no actual meaning behind it.

I hear you about "web 2.0" - you need to have a certain amount of buzzword
compliance these days. I was considering putting a "buzzword compliance"
page on our website where potential clients can go to see if we do all the
cool things they read about in Wired Magazine ;-)

Like I said before, I don't think there's anything wrong with your current
slogan but this has been an interesting thread non-the-less!

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Wil Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Well, 'enterprise' to me has a very specific meaning that is captured
> well in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software.
>
> That said, note the 'criticism' section at the bottom of the entry, which
> reflects your point well. I believe that's the first time I've seen a
> criticism section in Wikipedia for a single word. J
>
> The idea is with features like LDAP and SOAP (stay tuned on this one), ZF
> is perfect for building enterprise software. I see this as one of our sweet
> spots among PHP frameworks, and it certainly makes for an important part of
> our user base as far as Zend is concerned. I think it's fair to say that we
> directly target enterprise-sized companies in our marketing. But you might
> be surprised how many ZF users actually work in 'enterprise-size' companies.
> For whatever reason, they seem to have disproportionate representation on
> the lists, but I don't think that's necessarily uncommon for open source
> projects that are used in the enterprise.
>
> You'll see 'Web 2.0' come up in our marketing; it would be hard for us not
> to use it in today's web dev env. But I have specifically asked that we
> avoid the term 'agile' to describe anything even remotely related to
> development methodology since I'm a BIG agile methodology fan, and I don't
> feel our development methodology on this project could currently be
> classified as 'agile'. And, AFAIK, there is nothing that we do in our
> codebase or docs to facilitate agile methodologies beyond just being a great
> framework to use in such an environment. J In the broader sense of the
> term, ZF is truly more agile than other frameworks in that we endeavor to
> try to exhaustively gather and respond as quickly as possible to our users'
> needs. I would say 'agile' is one of the most loaded terms in our current
> web dev lexicon.
>
> I hope this discussion isn't wearing thin for those who come to this list
> looking for a more technical perspective. I happen to think these issues are
> very important and will have a large impact on all ZF users as we drive more
> adoption.
>
>
>
> ,Wil
>
>
>
> *From:* Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:34 PM
> *To:* Joó Ádám
> *Cc:* Eric Marden; fw-general@lists.zend.com
> *Subject:* Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
>
>
> Ugh, what the heck is the word 
> enterprise<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>suppose
>  to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the
> following buzzwords, especially in slogans:
>
>- enterprise
>- web 2.0
>- agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear
>definition)
>
> These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really
> communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I
> doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company.
> "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial* end
> of ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must
> be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't
> really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here
> other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words,
> if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual
> enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as
> targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think
> that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot
> of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive.
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ádám
>
>
>
>
> --
> Bradley Holt
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>



-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Bradley Holt]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In support of Bradley Holt I propose:
>
> Zend Framework: The agile enterprise framework for web 2.0 :)


Brilliant!


>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Bradley Holt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ugh, what the heck is the word 
> > enterprisesuppose
> >  to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the
> > following buzzwords, especially in slogans:
> >
> >- enterprise
> >- web 2.0
> >- agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear
> >definition)
> >
> > These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really
> > communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I
> > doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company.
> > "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial*end of 
> > ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it
> > must be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we
> > don't really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated
> > here other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other
> > words, if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual
> > enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as
> > targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think
> > that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot
> > of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ádám
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bradley Holt
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>


-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Josh Team]

In support of Bradley Holt I propose:

Zend Framework: The agile enterprise framework for web 2.0 :)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Bradley Holt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Ugh, what the heck is the word 
> enterprisesuppose
>  to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the
> following buzzwords, especially in slogans:
>
>- enterprise
>- web 2.0
>- agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear
>definition)
>
> These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really
> communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I
> doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company.
> "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial* end
> of ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must
> be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't
> really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here
> other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words,
> if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual
> enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as
> targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think
> that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot
> of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ádám
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bradley Holt
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Wil Sinclair]

Well, ‘enterprise’ to me has a very specific meaning that is captured well in 
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software.

That said, note the ‘criticism’ section at the bottom of the entry, which 
reflects your point well. I believe that’s the first time I’ve seen a criticism 
section in Wikipedia for a single word. J

The idea is with features like LDAP and SOAP (stay tuned on this one), ZF is 
perfect for building enterprise software. I see this as one of our sweet spots 
among PHP frameworks, and it certainly makes for an important part of our user 
base as far as Zend is concerned. I think it’s fair to say that we directly 
target enterprise-sized companies in our marketing. But you might be surprised 
how many ZF users actually work in ‘enterprise-size’ companies. For whatever 
reason, they seem to have disproportionate representation on the lists, but I 
don’t think that’s necessarily uncommon for open source projects that are used 
in the enterprise.

You’ll see ‘Web 2.0’ come up in our marketing; it would be hard for us not to 
use it in today’s web dev env. But I have specifically asked that we avoid the 
term ‘agile’ to describe anything even remotely related to development 
methodology since I’m a BIG agile methodology fan, and I don’t feel our 
development methodology on this project could currently be classified as 
‘agile’. And, AFAIK, there is nothing that we do in our codebase or docs to 
facilitate agile methodologies beyond just being a great framework to use in 
such an environment. J In the broader sense of the term, ZF is truly more agile 
than other frameworks in that we endeavor to try to exhaustively gather and 
respond as quickly as possible to our users’ needs. I would say ‘agile’ is one 
of the most loaded terms in our current web dev lexicon.

I hope this discussion isn’t wearing thin for those who come to this list 
looking for a more technical perspective. I happen to think these issues are 
very important and will have a large impact on all ZF users as we drive more 
adoption.

 

,Wil

 

From: Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:34 PM
To: Joó Ádám
Cc: Eric Marden; fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

 

Ugh, what the heck is the word enterprise 
<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>  suppose to 
mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the following 
buzzwords, especially in slogans:

*   enterprise
*   web 2.0
*   agile (this one isn't quite as bad as it has a more clear definition)

These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really 
communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I doubt 
the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company. 
"Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the commercial end of ZF. 
However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must be good. 
But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't really know 
what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here other than, 
"it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words, if your truly 
saying "enterprise" to directly target actual enterprise-size companies, that's 
fine. But it comes across more as targeting those of us who don't work at an 
enterprise-size company but think that it must be good if it's good for 
enterprises. I think there are a lot of great things to be said about ZF that 
are more substantive.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.


Regards,
Ádám




-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Bradley Holt]

Ugh, what the heck is the word
enterprisesuppose
to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the
following buzzwords, especially in slogans:

   - enterprise
   - web 2.0
   - agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear
   definition)

These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really
communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I
doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company.
"Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial* end of
ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must be
good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't
really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here
other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words,
if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual
enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as
targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think
that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot
of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ádám
>



-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Joó Ádám]

My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP.


Regards,
Ádám

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Bradley Holt]

Wil,

Not that I think there's anything wrong with the existing slogan, but since
you asked for ideas...

My first thought is that you're trying to communicate simplicity, so your
slogan should be simple as well. Looking at the Why
ZF?<http://framework.zend.com/whyzf/>page gives a few keywords that
nicely describe the positive aspects of ZF.
Perhaps something as simple as:

"simplicity, power, productivity"

or, getting a tad bit clever:

"simply powerful productivity"

or, risking complexity:

"simplicity, power, and productivity for building your web applications"

or, a different approach all-together:

"from the PHP company"

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Wow. I didn't think this would be such a point of discussion. I hope I
> can settle this once and for all. It is proper English- "meet" is
> imperative; "Simplicity" is directly addressing simplicity by name as if it
> were a person. Take it from someone who double majored in Comparative
> Literature and Computer Science in college. J
>
> In any case, this tagline was never meant to be permanent or the sole
> slogan associated with ZF. The main point was trying to express ZF's
> philosophy in a short- hopefully memorable-slogan. In doing so, we hoped to
> differentiate ZF from the other frameworks and give it a "face". Other
> slogans were brought up that we may use in the future, perhaps even
> alongside this one. **But I'd really like to hear what you guys might come
> up with** for two reasons:
>
>
>
> 1)  We might end up with some very good slogans to use later.
>
> and
>
> 2)  I'm extremely curious what our community see as the
> differentiators for ZF and what ZF means to all of us.
>
>
>
> Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest you try
> to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so that we don't
> create too much non-technical traffic. And, of course, if we were to use a
> slogan suggested by a member of the community, we'd have to make sure Zend
> held the copyright and could trademark it if necessary.
>
>
>
> ,Wil
>
>
>
> *From:* Robin Skoglund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:23 AM
> *To:* fw-general@lists.zend.com
> *Subject:* Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
> Meets Power
>
>
>
> I don't know what English courses you guys have taken, but a comma does
> not translate into the word "and". It simply states there should be a brief
> pause before continuing, whereas "John meet Sue" sounds rushed.
>
> Simplcity, Meet Power is an excellent slogan in my mind :)
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Joseph Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> Yea there should be no , that just does not make sense as it translates
> into
>
>
>
> John and meet Sue
>
>
>
> "John meet Sue"  sounds more proper
>
>
>
> On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Paul Mark wrote:
>
>  I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or
> "John, meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.
>
> Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring to
> people ( it is out of context )and it sounds even more incorrect when
> applying to abstract or "programming" framework.
>
> It just looks unfinished...thats all...
>
>
>  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity
> Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue"
> "Simplicity, Meet Power"
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
> behind this wording. Search the archives :-)
>
>
> On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
> >
> >  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
> >  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
>
>   --
> Regards,
> Martin Martinov
> http://mmartinov.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Bradley Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Eric Marden]

> Trade In your Trade Offs
 
+1 for this one. 
 
 
--
Eric Marden




From: Joseph Crawford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Wil Sinclair
Cc: Vincent; fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not
Simplicity, Meets Power


Just to throw out my thoughts, I liked these the best 

Backed by the Biggest Name in PHP
Our Components are Optional, Our Quality Isn't
Trade In your Trade Offs


On Apr 16, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:



Backed by the Biggest Name in PHP
Our Components are Optional, Our Quality Isn't
Trade In your Trade Offs

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Joseph Crawford]

Just to throw out my thoughts, I liked these the best

Backed by the Biggest Name in PHP
Our Components are Optional, Our Quality Isn’t
Trade In your Trade Offs

On Apr 16, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:


Backed by the Biggest Name in PHP
Our Components are Optional, Our Quality Isn’t
Trade In your Trade Offs

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Wil Sinclair]

I thought David’s suggestions were funny *and* I completely agree with Vincent. 
In fact, I’ve been very careful to never criticize other frameworks when 
extolling the virtues of ZF. After all, we have strong empirical evidence that 
CakePHP, RoR, Symfony, etc.- even Java and .Net stacks- don’t suck. If they 
did, few people would use them for new projects as there are plenty of free 
alternatives. It’s just that every framework seems to have its sweet spots.

Here are some other slogan’s we threw out when we were thinking about the new 
site:

 

100% Opinionated Software- *Your* Opinion (Bad wording, but you get the idea. 
If anyone can capture this in a better 5-10 word slogan please let me know.)

Backed by the Biggest Name in PHP

Our Components are Optional, Our Quality Isn’t

Trade In your Trade Offs

Extreme Simplicity (Used from the beginning of the project, but I’m not a big 
fan. I don’t see simplicity by itself as a good differentiator for ZF; if we’re 
compared to RoR and clones solely on the dimension of simplicity, we’d lose 
every time- at least for now.) 

Enterprise-strength PHP

 

OK, I couldn’t remember all of them so I made up a couple on the spot. But I’m 
allowed to be creative on this thread, too. :D

 

,Wil

 

 

From: Vincent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:46 AM
Cc: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

 

 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:





Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest you try to 
aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so that we don't create 
too much non-technical traffic. And, of course, if we were to use a slogan 
suggested by a member of the community, we'd have to make sure Zend held the 
copyright and could trademark it if necessary.

 

It Doesn't Suck. (:D)

 

Agile AND Flexible.

 

...and it doesn't suck. :D


"It doesn't suck" implies that other frameworks do suck, and even though one 
might argue that to be the case ( ;-) ), I think it'd be more appropriate to 
promote ZF's own benefits.
 

 

David




-- 
Vincent 

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Vincent]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:26 PM, David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hopefully everyone else found this more funny than serious. The "Agile AND
> Flexible" motto was my serious suggestion. Come on, V, get hip, man...! ;)
>
>
Hehe, sorry :)
(It's not that I've got no humour, just that I've used up all my humour
points today because I enjoy laughing so much ;-)
-- 
Vincent

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[David Rogers]

Hopefully everyone else found this more funny than serious. The "Agile  
AND Flexible" motto was my serious suggestion. Come on, V, get hip,  
man...! ;)


On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Vincent wrote:




On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:

Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest  
you try to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so  
that we don't create too much non-technical traffic. And, of  
course, if we were to use a slogan suggested by a member of the  
community, we'd have to make sure Zend held the copyright and could  
trademark it if necessary.


It Doesn't Suck. (:D)

Agile AND Flexible.

...and it doesn't suck. :D

"It doesn't suck" implies that other frameworks do suck, and even  
though one might argue that to be the case ( ;-) ), I think it'd be  
more appropriate to promote ZF's own benefits.



David



--
Vincent

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Vincent]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:
>
> Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest you try
> to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so that we don't
> create too much non-technical traffic. And, of course, if we were to use a
> slogan suggested by a member of the community, we'd have to make sure Zend
> held the copyright and could trademark it if necessary.
>
>
> It Doesn't Suck. (:D)
>
> Agile AND Flexible.
>
> ...and it doesn't suck. :D
>

"It doesn't suck" implies that other frameworks do suck, and even though one
might argue that to be the case ( ;-) ), I think it'd be more appropriate to
promote ZF's own benefits.


>
> David
>



-- 
Vincent

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[David Rogers]

On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Wil Sinclair wrote:

Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest  
you try to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so  
that we don’t create too much non-technical traffic. And, of course,  
if we were to use a slogan suggested by a member of the community,  
we’d have to make sure Zend held the copyright and could trademark  
it if necessary.


It Doesn't Suck. (:D)

Agile AND Flexible.

...and it doesn't suck. :D

David

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Wil Sinclair]

Wow. I didn't think this would be such a point of discussion. I hope I
can settle this once and for all. It is proper English- "meet" is
imperative; "Simplicity" is directly addressing simplicity by name as if
it were a person. Take it from someone who double majored in Comparative
Literature and Computer Science in college. J

In any case, this tagline was never meant to be permanent or the sole
slogan associated with ZF. The main point was trying to express ZF's
philosophy in a short- hopefully memorable-slogan. In doing so, we hoped
to differentiate ZF from the other frameworks and give it a "face".
Other slogans were brought up that we may use in the future, perhaps
even alongside this one. *But I'd really like to hear what you guys
might come up with* for two reasons:

 

1)  We might end up with some very good slogans to use later.

and

2)  I'm extremely curious what our community see as the
differentiators for ZF and what ZF means to all of us.

 

Please feel free to throw out ideas here. I would like to suggest you
try to aggregate all your suggestions in one mail, however, so that we
don't create too much non-technical traffic. And, of course, if we were
to use a slogan suggested by a member of the community, we'd have to
make sure Zend held the copyright and could trademark it if necessary.

 

,Wil

 

From: Robin Skoglund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:23 AM
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity,
Meets Power

 

I don't know what English courses you guys have taken, but a comma does
not translate into the word "and". It simply states there should be a
brief pause before continuing, whereas "John meet Sue" sounds rushed.

Simplcity, Meet Power is an excellent slogan in my mind :)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Joseph Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Yea there should be no , that just does not make sense as it translates
into

 

John and meet Sue

 

"John meet Sue"  sounds more proper

 

On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Paul Mark wrote:



I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or
"John, meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.

Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring to
people ( it is out of context )and it sounds even more incorrect
when applying to abstract or "programming" framework.

It just looks unfinished...thats all...




On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity
Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue"
"Simplicity, Meet Power"

 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
behind this wording. Search the archives :-)


On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
>
>  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>
>
>
>  --
>  View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets
-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
>  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>



--
Regards,
Martin Martinov
http://mmartinov.com/

 

 

 

 

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Marco]

> I don't know what English courses you guys have taken, but a comma does
> not translate into the word "and". It simply states there should be a brief
> pause before continuing, whereas "John meet Sue" sounds rushed.


Totally agree, the comma is fine where it is.

Regards

Marco

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Robin Skoglund]

I don't know what English courses you guys have taken, but a comma does not
translate into the word "and". It simply states there should be a brief
pause before continuing, whereas "John meet Sue" sounds rushed.

Simplcity, Meet Power is an excellent slogan in my mind :)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Joseph Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yea there should be no , that just does not make sense as it translates
> into
> John and meet Sue
>
> "John meet Sue"  sounds more proper
>
> On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Paul Mark wrote:
>
> I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or
> "John, meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.
>
> Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring to
> people ( it is out of context )and it sounds even more incorrect when
> applying to abstract or "programming" framework.
>
> It just looks unfinished...thats all...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity
> > Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue"
> > "Simplicity, Meet Power"
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
> > > behind this wording. Search the archives :-)
> > >
> > > On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
> > > >
> > > >  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  --
> > > >  View this message in context:
> > > http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
> > > >  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin Martinov
> > > http://mmartinov.com/
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Joseph Crawford]

Yea there should be no , that just does not make sense as it  
translates into


John and meet Sue

"John meet Sue"  sounds more proper

On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Paul Mark wrote:

I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or  
"John, meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.


Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring  
to people ( it is out of context )and it sounds even more  
incorrect when applying to abstract or "programming" framework.


It just looks unfinished...thats all...



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:
I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as  
"Simplicity Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John,  
meet Sue" "Simplicity, Meet Power"



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
behind this wording. Search the archives :-)

On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
>
>  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>
>
>
>  --
>  View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
>  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>


--
Regards,
Martin Martinov
http://mmartinov.com/

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Paul Mark]

I see what you are trying to say, but it should be no comma there or "John,
meet Sue"  makes no sense in this translation.

Again - the "John, meet Sue" sounds funny by itself when referring to people
( it is out of context )and it sounds even more incorrect when applying
to abstract or "programming" framework.

It just looks unfinished...thats all...



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Josh Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity
> Meets Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue"
> "Simplicity, Meet Power"
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
> > behind this wording. Search the archives :-)
> >
> > On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
> > >
> > >  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  --
> > >  View this message in context:
> > http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
> > >  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Martin Martinov
> > http://mmartinov.com/
> >
>
>

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Matthew Weier O'Phinney]

-- Marcus Bointon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Wednesday, 16 April 2008, 03:46 PM +0100):
> On 16 Apr 2008, at 15:29, photo312 wrote:
>> the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>
>
> At a stretch it could be "Simplicity, Meet Power".

It already is.

-- 
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Software Architect   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Zend - The PHP Company   | http://www.zend.com/

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Josh Team]

I am pretty sure they are not describing the framework as "Simplicity Meets
Power" but introducing Simplicity to Power. "John, meet Sue" "Simplicity,
Meet Power"

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Martin Martinov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
> behind this wording. Search the archives :-)
>
> On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
> >
> >  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
> >  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Martinov
> http://mmartinov.com/
>

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Martin Martinov]

I'm not an expert in English, but Wil already posted the reasoning
behind this wording. Search the archives :-)

On 16/04/2008, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
>
>  the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>
>
>
>  --
>  View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Simplicity-Meets-Power-and-not-Simplicity%2C-Meets-Power-tp16722510p16722510.html
>  Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>


-- 
Regards,
Martin Martinov
http://mmartinov.com/

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Marcus Bointon]

On 16 Apr 2008, at 15:29, photo312 wrote:

the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"



At a stretch it could be "Simplicity, Meet Power".

Marcus
--
Marcus Bointon
Synchromedia Limited: Creators of http://www.smartmessages.net/
UK resellers of [EMAIL PROTECTED] CRM solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk/

Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Vincent]

On 4/16/08, photo312 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Can someone fix it - it kind of looks embarrassing...
>
> the saying should be:"Simplicity Meets Power"
>
>
There is no "s" at the end of "meet", so it's "Simplicity, Meet Power", as
if you were introducing mr. Simplicity to mr. Power ;-)
-- 
Vincent

RE: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, Meets Power

[Eric Marden]

> the saying should be: "Simplicity Meets Power"

OR

"Simplicity, Meet Power"


 
--
Eric Marden