Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Larry le Mac]

From: Clark Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I still use the term as it's accurate and it fits.
What term ?! Two-phase for single phase ???
Larry
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Larry le Mac]

From: themacuser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
Neutral is not a phase, hence "neutral". In fact, it is
connected to earth...
...or at least here in Sweden.
Larry
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Clark Martin]

At 8:57 AM -0400 4/19/05, David Lesher wrote:
2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
As in two hot and one neutral, 110VAC RMS from each hot to 
neutral, 220VAC RMS from hot to hot.
Bzztt. Wrong answer! What you have is plain old 220 single 
phase just like virtually everyone else has. Actual two-phase power 
hasn't been used in this country for decades, and when it was, it 
was for industrial use only. It was NEVER installed in homes.

I have to agree. I'm an EE and if any of my old profs heard me call 
residential/commercial centertapped 240 V  as "two phase" -- why, 
they'd flail me with a Smith Chart.
I'm also an EE here and I don't recall what my professors may have 
said on the subject.  I don't much care cause they didn't do much 
with household power.  I still use the term as it's accurate and it 
fits.
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[David Lesher]

2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
As in two hot and one neutral, 110VAC RMS from each hot to neutral, 
220VAC RMS from hot to hot.
Bzztt. Wrong answer! What you have is plain old 220 single phase 
just like virtually everyone else has. Actual two-phase power hasn't 
been used in this country for decades, and when it was, it was for 
industrial use only. It was NEVER installed in homes.

I have to agree. I'm an EE and if any of my old profs heard me call 
residential/commercial centertapped 240 V  as "two phase" -- why, 
they'd flail me with a Smith Chart.

And if John wants weird, how about 6-phase? Or 16.33 Hz. Recall that 
it was common for large Industrial Age factories to generate their 
own power, and they thus got to decide exactly what they wanted. Some 
still do to this day, such in paper mills, etc. There was an 
explosion at the Ford complex's power plant in Detroit a few years 
ago; I recall because several people died. 

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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[John]

Clark Martin wrote:
At 4:15 PM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?

As in two hot and one neutral, 110VAC RMS from each hot to neutral, 
220VAC RMS from hot to hot.

Bzztt. Wrong answer! What you have is plain old 220 single phase 
just like virtually everyone else has. Actual two-phase power hasn't 
been used in this country for decades, and when it was, it was for 
industrial use only. It was NEVER installed in homes. Where it was used 
was predominantly in a few New England states. I belong to an old 
woodworking machine Yahoo group with a couple thousand members. These 
guys live to collect and restore old machinery. The older and bigger, 
the better! To most of them, a 12" jointer or 36" bandsaw is small 
stuff. Out of all those folks I'm only aware of two people who actually 
own any two-phase powered machinery. They have had to do some fancy 
electrical tricks to be able to run these old machines. Makes the 
three-phase converters that most of us have seem like child's play! If 
you really want to know more about two-phase, go to the OWWM Yahoo group 
list achives and do a search on two-phase power. This was a topic of 
discussion on the email list just a few months ago. We have guys on the 
list who live for this kind of stuff.

JR (who has a degree in industrial maintenance, and has worked with 
single and three-phase for more years than I want to think about)

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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[John]

Clark Martin wrote:
At 11:12 AM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.

It's in my house.
I don't think so. If you do, you better have a serious talk with 
your power company!

JR
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[themacuser]

Really? Never heard of that before...
On 19/04/2005, at 16:29, Clark Martin wrote:
At 4:15 PM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
As in two hot and one neutral, 110VAC RMS from each hot to neutral, 
220VAC RMS from hot to hot.

On 19/04/2005, at 11:51, Clark Martin wrote:
At 11:12 AM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.
It's in my house.
--
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Clark Martin]

At 4:15 PM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
As in two hot and one neutral, 110VAC RMS from each hot to neutral, 
220VAC RMS from hot to hot.

On 19/04/2005, at 11:51, Clark Martin wrote:
At 11:12 AM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.
It's in my house.
--
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Redwood City, CA, USA
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[themacuser]

2-phase power as in two phases, neutral and earth?
On 19/04/2005, at 11:51, Clark Martin wrote:
At 11:12 AM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.
It's in my house.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Clark Martin]

At 11:12 AM +0930 4/19/05, themacuser wrote:
 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.
It's in my house.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[themacuser]

 What I meant was that 2-phase power is never installed in housing.
On 19/04/2005, at 02:30, Clark Martin wrote:
At 8:10 PM +0930 4/18/05, themacuser wrote:
2-phase power doesn't exist either, it would make no sense. 3-phase 
power cables have 5 wires anyway. Ground, neutral and phase 1,2,3...
Or just 4, ground and 3 phases.
In the US 208V 3ph is usually wired delta so there is no neutral.
2 phase is used and does exist.  It's just a center tapped 
transformer.  The fact that the two phases are 180 degrees apart is 
what makes them two phases.

On 18/04/2005, at 16:32, Larry le Mac wrote:
From: Beniamino Cenci Goga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

the free wires (usually 3: the ground, usually yellow and green, 
and the two phases)
Uh, one phase and neutral...
---
From: Claire Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Yikes! What if there are four wires, and they are red
and yellow, black and white?
Hmm, I've never heard of a 3-phase PowerBook (yet)...
Ah, unless you've gone for the phone socket, that has
four wire but I doubt enough current to run a PowerBook...
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Larry le Mac]

From: themacuser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

2-phase power doesn't exist either,
I never said it did...
---
3-phase power cables have 5 wires anyway.
Ground, neutral and phase 1,2,3...
You don't have to have neutral, many outlets
in Sweden and England (and many other countries
I've installed machines in) only have 4 pins.
Larry
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Hector I . Macedo]

Ben, What is a "schuko"?
On Apr 18, 2005, at 7:42 AM, Beniamino Cenci Goga wrote:
BTW. Most powerbooks sold in the EU have the German "schuko" plug with 
the ground...

Ben
Hector I. Macedo  "Lord of the 
Flies"	
Dallas, TX 75248

"Piscaro Itaque dicet mendacium"
Then round his hook the chosen fur he winds,
And on the back a speckled feather binds;
So just the colours shine through ev'ry part,
That nature seems to live again in art.
John Gay
Rural Sports 1720
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Clark Martin]

At 8:10 PM +0930 4/18/05, themacuser wrote:
2-phase power doesn't exist either, it would make no sense. 3-phase 
power cables have 5 wires anyway. Ground, neutral and phase 1,2,3...
Or just 4, ground and 3 phases.
In the US 208V 3ph is usually wired delta so there is no neutral.
2 phase is used and does exist.  It's just a center tapped 
transformer.  The fact that the two phases are 180 degrees apart is 
what makes them two phases.

On 18/04/2005, at 16:32, Larry le Mac wrote:
From: Beniamino Cenci Goga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

the free wires (usually 3: the ground, usually yellow and green, 
and the two phases)
Uh, one phase and neutral...
---
From: Claire Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Yikes! What if there are four wires, and they are red
and yellow, black and white?
Hmm, I've never heard of a 3-phase PowerBook (yet)...
Ah, unless you've gone for the phone socket, that has
four wire but I doubt enough current to run a PowerBook...
--
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Redwood City, CA, USA
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

2-phase power doesn't exist either, it would make no sense. 3-phase 
power cables have 5 wires anyway. Ground, neutral and phase 1,2,3...
On 18/04/2005, at 16:32, Larry le Mac wrote:

Come on guys!
It's jargon: "one ground and the phases"...
BTW. Most powerbooks sold in the EU have the German "schuko" plug 
with the ground...

Ben
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[themacuser]

2-phase power doesn't exist either, it would make no sense. 3-phase 
power cables have 5 wires anyway. Ground, neutral and phase 1,2,3...
On 18/04/2005, at 16:32, Larry le Mac wrote:

From: Beniamino Cenci Goga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

the free wires (usually 3: the ground, usually yellow and green, and 
the two phases)
Uh, one phase and neutral...
---
From: Claire Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Yikes! What if there are four wires, and they are red
and yellow, black and white?
Hmm, I've never heard of a 3-phase PowerBook (yet)...
Ah, unless you've gone for the phone socket, that has
four wire but I doubt enough current to run a PowerBook...
;o)

Larry
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Larry le Mac]

From: Beniamino Cenci Goga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

the free wires (usually 3: the ground, usually yellow and green, and the 
two phases)
Uh, one phase and neutral...
---
From: Claire Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Yikes! What if there are four wires, and they are red
and yellow, black and white?
Hmm, I've never heard of a 3-phase PowerBook (yet)...
Ah, unless you've gone for the phone socket, that has
four wire but I doubt enough current to run a PowerBook...
;o)

Larry
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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

Before leaving your country go to an home appliance shop shop and buy
the following TWO things:
1_female plug for the male plug of the adaptor power cord
2_an electric wire
travel to many countries.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I think your plan might be a little risky.
Claire
You don't have to modify the Apple stuff, let's put it in this way: 
you only need to buy an extension cable and then replace the male 
with the local one.

I have inspected thoroughly (by taking apart or breaking the various 
adapters) most of the kits, including those that you mention: they 
are pretty delicate.

Not to mention that they do not contain ALL the solution and they do 
not fit exactly.

I have used my system for more that 10 year in most of the European 
countries, US, japan and Africa.

Believe me this thing is really universal.
Thanks for the sarcasm, but... electricity is the same all over the 
world... and this is a male stuff... ;-)

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Re: European Powerbooks _ the last word

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

Sorry for the subject, but I have the feeling that I can give a 
worthwhile contribution.

Before leaving your country go to an home appliance shop shop and buy 
the following TWO things:

1_female plug for the male plug of the adaptor power cord
2_an electric wire
Put them together, so that you have at one end with the female plug 
and at the other end the free wires (usually 3: the ground, usually 
yellow and green, and the two phases)

Once you get to the destination country just buy a local male plug al 
a local shop.

You are done!
No need to buy weird kits of doubtful quality!
Ben

No transformer needed, just adapter plugs. You can get a world-wide adapter
kit at apple.com - or just buy an adapter in whatever country you land,
which is how I built up my collection. They're easy to find at any drug
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