Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
Il giorno 16/01/13 05:50, Cameron Kaiser ha scritto: Assuming this is not a quad, the northbridge for your unit is called U3. Not a quad, it's the Early 2005 2.7 DP. U3 has a history of overheating (and I hope yours isn't permanently busted). No it's not, because both last night and right now the G5 is working. Thus I think the problem lies in the soldering; the lead-free BGA solder has become flaky. Heating it with the hair dryer seems making it stable again (for a while, at least). Of course, the high temperature of the chip - and consequent stress - only makes the problem worse. Check the heat sink and make sure it's not slipped off. Consider removing it, reapplying thermal paste, reseating the heat sink and putting it through ASD to make sure there is no permanent damage, assuming it boots. Good advice but, as I said before, I consider disassembling the G5 my last possible chance. Since right now it's working (thanks to the hair dryer trick), I don't want the burden and the risk to disassemble it and - maybe - break something else. :-/ I was looking for an advice to improve the U3 temp, *without* disassembling the whole shebang. :-) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
On 1/16/13 12:35 PM, Charles Lenington wrote: On 1/16/13 12:20 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 16/01/13 05:50, Cameron Kaiser ha scritto: snip- I was looking for an advice to improve the U3 temp, *without* disassembling the whole shebang. :-) Try tep fan either in bottom of case or on front inside frame. If bottom use log crews and 2 nuts to hold off bottom for airflow. You will probably need power cable extension or use a 12 VDC wall wart ran through a card cover. What? tep - should be putting -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
On 16/01/2013 18:20, Valter Prahlad valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it wrote: Of course, the high temperature of the chip - and consequent stress - only makes the problem worse. The high temp of the chip may be due to a poor solder connection - I have reflowed ball grid arrays on graphics card gpu chips which were faulty due to heat problems caused by stressed solder joints - strangely enough the stress was caused by high operating temps due to poor heat dissipation like a faulty fan or heatsink contact - sometimes the fans and vents were entirely blocked with dust bunnies and gunk. Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
G5: 3 blinks and no boot
Hi all, my trusty PowerMac G5 DP 2.7 (Early 2005) isn't trusty anymore. :-( Yesterday I was reading my e-mails (in Entourage 2008), and it suddenly froze. After powering it down and restarting, it won't boot and the power light does 3 blinks, pause, 3 blinks again, on and on. Apple info says it's Incompatible memory (RAM) is installed. But the Ram is the same it was for the last 2 years. Besides, I tried a couple of Ram sticks I had around, and it does the same; so n o, I don't think it's really the memory. Anyway, lots of info on the Net about this event, and quite often it turns out i t's the logic board (or the memory slots) gone bad, probably due to lead-free soldering gone broken somehow (Google tin whiskers for some scary stuff). Although most reports like that are about G5s older than mine. I've collected answers and suggestions and I'm going to try them, but I wanted t o ask here, in case some member had similar trouble and found a solution. The funniest advice is to blow your hair dryer onto the memory slots for some mi nutes :-D and it seems the best working, but it's usually just a temporary fix. I hope for some magic or voodoo now. :-) It would be a waste throwing this beautiful machine into the bin. TIA, Valter -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:50 AM, valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it wrote: Hi all, my trusty PowerMac G5 DP 2.7 (Early 2005) isn't trusty anymore. :-( Yesterday I was reading my e-mails (in Entourage 2008), and it suddenly froze. After powering it down and restarting, it won't boot and the power light does 3 blinks, pause, 3 blinks again, on and on. Apple info says it's Incompatible memory (RAM) is installed. But the Ram is the same it was for the last 2 years. Besides, I tried a couple of Ram sticks I had around, and it does the same; so n o, I don't think it's really the memory. Anyway, lots of info on the Net about this event, and quite often it turns out i t's the logic board (or the memory slots) gone bad, probably due to lead-free soldering gone broken somehow (Google tin whiskers for some scary stuff). Although most reports like that are about G5s older than mine. I've collected answers and suggestions and I'm going to try them, but I wanted t o ask here, in case some member had similar trouble and found a solution. The funniest advice is to blow your hair dryer onto the memory slots for some mi nutes :-D and it seems the best working, but it's usually just a temporary fix. I hope for some magic or voodoo now. :-) It would be a waste throwing this beautiful machine into the bin. You can try spraying some contact cleaner into the slots, and gently rubbing a mars eraser (the white rubber kind) gently on the contacts on the DIMMS themselves. However, the suddeness and the fact that it happened while it was running does seem to indicate that maybe it's amemory controller that failed on the mobo. Have you tried populating different slots (the G5's need them in pairs, but any pair in any slot set will do) if you get the errors regardless, it's most likely the logic board. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
R: Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
Da: john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu However, the suddeness and the fact that it happened while it was running does seem to indicate that maybe it's amemory controller that failed on the mobo. Have you tried populating different slots (the G5's need them in pairs, but any pair in any slot set will do) if you get the errors regardless, it's most likel y the logic board. Yes, I tried several combinations of sticks within different slots (beside vacuu ming the slots), no change. So it looks like it's the controller (or the memory slots). I'm going to try the hair dryer trick next (someone wrote an heat gun is even be tter). -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:50 AM, valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it wrote: Hi all, my trusty PowerMac G5 DP 2.7 (Early 2005) isn't trusty anymore. :-( I've collected answers and suggestions and I'm going to try them, but I wanted t o ask here, in case some member had similar trouble and found a solution. The funniest advice is to blow your hair dryer onto the memory slots for some mi nutes :-D and it seems the best working, but it's usually just a temporary fix. I hope for some magic or voodoo now. :-) It would be a waste throwing this beautiful machine into the bin. You can try spraying some contact cleaner into the slots, and gently rubbing a mars eraser (the white rubber kind) gently on the contacts on the DIMMS themselves. However, the suddeness and the fact that it happened while it was running does seem to indicate that maybe it's amemory controller that failed on the mobo. Have you tried populating different slots (the G5's need them in pairs, but any pair in any slot set will do) if you get the errors regardless, it's most likely the logic board. I have found that seating the RAM in my Dual 2.7 can almost need a mallet to get them to report. That being said, reseat the LCS and while doing that check for leaking. Try to boot with an ASD 2.5.7 or ASD 2.5.8 disc, they bypass a lot of issues on the logic board. Can you tell if the USB ports are live? John Carmonne Broadway Mfg Inc. Placentia CA 92870 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:30 AM, John Carmonne wrote: I have found that seating the RAM in my Dual 2.7 can almost need a mallet to get them to report. I agree. On my dual CPU 2.3 with all eight slots (4 pairs) fully populated, I had to seat reseat RAM probably 30-40 times (meaning 30-40 restarts) before I was able to get all 4 pairs to recognize successfully. Since then, zero problems, but seating the RAM was VERY difficult. My G5 would boot with RAM pairs that weren't being recognized, so this issue with not booting is probably different, and I'd suggest being 100% certain the power supply is good still by getting a G5 pinout and testing each voltage with a multimeter. When my power supply went bad, only a couple voltages dropped, and the lights still came on, but I could smell the burned components, so I knew something was amiss. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
R: Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
Da: carmo...@aol.com reseat the LCS and while doing that check for leaking. Checked, no leaking. Try to boot with an ASD 2.5.7 or ASD 2.5.8 disc The G5 CANNOT boot. I thought it was clear. :-) I cannot even reset the PRAM, it doesn't go that far. Since it doesn't finish the POST phase, it doesn't even begin the boot process. Can you tell if the USB ports are live? I don't think so. No light on USB devices (kbd, mouse). I think they are initialized (or such) after POST. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
Il giorno 15/01/13 21:27, Peter Devlin ha scritto: If it is a crack or a split in the solder contacts of the memory slots or even the controller it is possible with sufficient targeted heat to reflow the solder and eliminate the problem. I did a liitle of that some years ago with a hot air rework station but it only produced a permanent fix in around fifty percent of cases. Well, looks like I was lucky. :-) Right now I'm writing this on my G5, that is born again. :-D I tried everything with the Ram sticks (moving them, cleaning, swapping, trying different sticks), no way. Ok, I knew it wasn't the Ram. Then I used my hair dryer on each memory bank, and on the memory controller chip (actually, on its back, since it's located onto the inner side of the logic board). Around 3 minutes of blowing hot air on each part, and hey!, the trick worked! Knock on wood, I don't know how long it will last. But I was able to backup my recent stuff, so I'm an happy camper anyway. I think it was the memory controller, partly because it has always been really hot, between 70 and 75 degrees Celsius (checking with Marcel Bresink's Temperature Monitor). For a comparison, both CPU dies are around 50° C or less. The funniest thing is, this problem occurred just the day after I decided to buy an used iMac! Maybe the G5 got jealous! ;-) I was planning to sell the G5 afterwards, but now I'm doubtful; I don't want to sell a lemon. OTOH, the repair was pretty straightforward (once I knew what to do), so I could sell it informing the buyer about this caveat. If the problem is going to show up once or twice a year, I think it's bearable; after all, from the dozens post I read about it, this issue can happen to any G5. Thank you to everybody for you suggestions and advice. Valter -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
I think it was the memory controller, partly because it has always been really hot, between 70 and 75 degrees Celsius (checking with Marcel Bresink's Temperature Monitor). For a comparison, both CPU dies are around 50_ C or less. Wow, that is VERY hot. This quad: Intake 24.0 C CPU A 1/2 49.5/46.1 C CPU B 1/2 39.5/40.3 C Memory cntrlr 54.9 C Exit42.1 C -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Don't wear rollerskates to a tug-of-war. -- Larry Wall - -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G5: 3 blinks and no boot
I think it was the memory controller, partly because it has always been really hot, between 70 and 75 degrees Celsius Wow, that is VERY hot. This quad: Memory cntrlr 54.9 C Yes it is. Since I got it (couple of years ago) it has always been that way. I cleaned the G5 as best as I could, using a vacuum cleaner (both sucking and blowing), but it didn't change the memory controller temp much. I probably should disassemble it and check the logic board backside, but it's too much hassle for me - I'm not that good with hardware. Besides, I'm afraid I could make the LCS leak (this is a Delphi unit, the most likely to have leaking issues). Reading on the Net, lots of people have G5s with the same high temp I have. Maybe the Quad G5 had some improvements about airflow/heatsinks. Apart from disassembling the G5, have you got any suggestion about lowering that controller chip's temp? It's not getting any airflow there (on the inner side of the board), and I think its being so hot has something to do with the memory error I just got. The memory controller is a hot part normally, but 70-75 C is searingly so. The good news is that this is probably *not* the LCS; the LCS cools the CPUs, not (directly) the rest of the machine. Assuming this is not a quad, the northbridge for your unit is called U3. It should be (it's been awhile since I've been inside my folks' dual 2.5, so I'm going from memory here, ha ha) in the front of the unit under a heat sink between the RAM DIMMs. The quad has a similar part called U4 in approximately the same place. IIRC, it is labeled on the board (either U3 or CPC925). U3 and U4 are the parts that are reported as the memory controller. U3 has a history of overheating (and I hope yours isn't permanently busted). Check the heat sink and make sure it's not slipped off. Consider removing it, reapplying thermal paste, reseating the heat sink and putting it through ASD to make sure there is no permanent damage, assuming it boots. U4 is a cooler-running part by comparison and on a smaller process size, which probably accounts for its better longevity. Really, the quad is the best G5 for so many reasons and here is another. Here's a MacRumours thread on that, btw: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1091176 -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Traditionally, most of Australia's imports come from overseas. -K. Enderbery -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
