Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[kex]

I no longer panic when I or a family member spill on a keyboard.
Best action to take is to immediately unplug the keyboard and
flush with water, preferably pure water or distilled water and
blow the water out with compressed air.

Unless the keyboard is brand new, there will be dirt inside from
use. This dirt could retain water long enough to cause the water
to conduct electricity and possibly short out the keyboard,
so . . .

Here's my regimen for rescuing a favorite keyboard:

0. Immediately disconnect from computer and
1 Pour a modest amount of liquid dish soap over the keyboard.
2. Flush with (preferably) pure water until it drains clear and
free of soap bubbles.
3. Use cold, oil-free compressed air (less than 25 PSI) to blow
out the water that is inside.
4. Slowly disassemble the keyboard as completely as possible without
breaking anything: beware of tiny flying springs that may launch.
Lay the parts out on paper towels in an organized fashion
that will enable reassembly.
5. Make sure that the parts are all dry and clean. If there were any
lubricants, replace with the same or similar type. Be conservative
in reapplying any lubrication.
6. Leave parts in a warm, dry place for at least a day.
7. Reassemble and test.

When you can buy used keyboards for a few dollars this strategy may
not be a good use of your time and effort. I've bought keyboards at
thrift stores for cheap and I am still using the nice ones; others are
stored for backup.

To repeat in shorthand:

0. Immediately disconnect.
1. Add liquid soap.
2. Flush spill and soap away.
3. Blow out with compressed air.
4. Carefully disassemble and lay parts out.
5. Clean and air dry all parts; reapply lubricants if necessary.
6. Reassemble and test.

Don't use detergents or cleaners on the parts.
Take photos during disassembly if you are not sure you can
remember where things go.

Most keyboards have flexible plastic membranes to protect
the electronics and conductors, but some have one for
every key. Keep track of every part. Most keyboards do not use
lubricants because lubricants collect dirt.

Similar techniques can be used to clean spills from inside
desktops and laptops, but laptops are best left to professionals
since construction varies widely, even within the same laptop.
Just remember to disconnect power as soon as possible after
a spill.

On 01/20/2013 05:40 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

Thank you all for your great suggestions and ideas!

I’ve reactivated my black Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), which is the best
alternative at the moment. I liked it very much before I bought the Aluminium
version.

I also have a couple of white Apple Keyboards (A1048) but I hate them because
keys have to be pressed very direct at an 90 degrees angle, otherwise the keys
have a high resistance and more force is required to actually press them down.
This is something I hate very much, as it influences the flow of typing. And
yes, I confess: sometimes I hit a key on the edge, so this happens regularly!

I bought the Alu keyboard because I needed the black Pro keyboard for my other
Macs very often. Now this is no longer the case as I don’t have that much time
for that anymore.

Still, I will be buying a new one… when the time is right.
I was in an electronics store the other day and looked at the various models.
Even though Microsoft keyboards look quite okay, I have to avoid them due to a
decision I made a long long time ago: never ever will I buy a hardware product
made by that software company! So, I’m left with any of those no-name vendors or
Logitech or Cherry.

I’ll propably go for a Cherry keyboard. It will be my first. I’ve always had
Logitech or OEMs… or Apple (which came with the Macs, so they’re sort of OEM…)

It’s so very hard to satisfy me: I really liked my keyboard before I spilled
juice on it… Everytime I’ve found one that I like, I’d soon miss the eject
key… of find, that I’d really miss the built-in USB hub…
Or the other way around: keyboards that have a USB hub and an eject key are
nowhere near the kind of keyboard I look for…

As for the Aluminium: I’ll wash it and wash it and give it a real good time
off… And if it still doesn’t work in a couple of months I’ll put it in the
trash. It really is a question of how much time and efforts I’m willing to
invest, just to propably find that the keyboard is broken anyway (or that a
vital key still won’t work)… And I’m not really happy spending my time and
money on it that much!


So, I’m very thankfull for your help on that matter!
You don’t need to read the whole message, just so much that you understand I
merely wanted to express my gratitude for all your helpful thoughts!
THANKS.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250



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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Mac User #330250]

Thank you all for your great suggestions and ideas!

I’ve reactivated my black Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), which is the best 
alternative at the moment. I liked it very much before I bought the Aluminium 
version.

I also have a couple of white Apple Keyboards (A1048) but I hate them because 
keys have to be pressed very direct at an 90 degrees angle, otherwise the keys 
have a high resistance and more force is required to actually press them down. 
This is something I hate very much, as it influences the flow of typing. And 
yes, I confess: sometimes I hit a key on the edge, so this happens regularly!

I bought the Alu keyboard because I needed the black Pro keyboard for my other 
Macs very often. Now this is no longer the case as I don’t have that much time 
for that anymore.

Still, I will be buying a new one… when the time is right.
I was in an electronics store the other day and looked at the various models. 
Even though Microsoft keyboards look quite okay, I have to avoid them due to a 
decision I made a long long time ago: never ever will I buy a hardware product 
made by that software company! So, I’m left with any of those no-name vendors 
or 
Logitech or Cherry.

I’ll propably go for a Cherry keyboard. It will be my first. I’ve always had 
Logitech or OEMs… or Apple (which came with the Macs, so they’re sort of OEM…)

It’s so very hard to satisfy me: I really liked my keyboard before I spilled 
juice on it… Everytime I’ve found one that I like, I’d soon miss the eject 
key… of find, that I’d really miss the built-in USB hub…
Or the other way around: keyboards that have a USB hub and an eject key are 
nowhere near the kind of keyboard I look for…

As for the Aluminium: I’ll wash it and wash it and give it a real good time 
off… And if it still doesn’t work in a couple of months I’ll put it in the 
trash. It really is a question of how much time and efforts I’m willing to 
invest, just to propably find that the keyboard is broken anyway (or that a 
vital key still won’t work)… And I’m not really happy spending my time and 
money on it that much!


So, I’m very thankfull for your help on that matter!
You don’t need to read the whole message, just so much that you understand I 
merely wanted to express my gratitude for all your helpful thoughts!
THANKS.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[t...@prismnet.com]

On Jan 17, 12:16 pm, Robert MacLeay  wrote:

> That said, I wish to insert a reality check: Even if you are successful,
> you will have spent a great deal of time and money, and will still wind up
> with a five year old keyboard.
>
> Shopping carefully, you can buy a decent used one for under $40. There are
> decent Mac-compatible substitutes available for less.

I like the Macally IceKey, however it has been replaced by the
IceKey2, priced at about $30.     I have
not tried the second version.

I have also been happy with Matias' Mac oriented USB 2 keyboard/mouse
bundles for $30 - $40, even though they are their inexpensive membrane
keyboards and not their clicky keyswitch premium boards.The USB2 port is kind of nice, although it
causes the keyboards to have two cables.

Jeff Walther

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > Never had a lot good to
> > say about their operating systems, but their keyboards and mice have always
> > been high quality.
> 
> Which is to say "Logitech's keyboards and mice have always been high
> quality" as I believe Logitech is Microsoft's OEM. At the very least they
> used to be.

That makes sense, since I generally like Logitech devices as well, although
they've gotten a bit rough at times. I presume Microsoft only picks the ones
they like to rebadge.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- My dark soul burns with fiery agreement. Or possibly tacos. -- 8-bit #508 --

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 18, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:

> Never had a lot good to
> say about their operating systems, but their keyboards and mice have always
> been high quality.


Which is to say "Logitech's keyboards and mice have always been high quality" 
as I believe Logitech is Microsoft's OEM. At the very least they used to be.


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> All in all, a good piece of hardware (as usually MS input devices are), that
> is relatively cheap (it was 37 euros back then).

I have generally liked Microsoft hardware. My preferred mouse is a Microsoft
Laser Mouse 6000, which "just works" with 10.4. Never had a lot good to
say about their operating systems, but their keyboards and mice have always
been high quality.

-- 
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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 17/01/13 19:07, Deiniol ap Deiniol ha scritto:

> There are 
> look-alike USB keyboards out there which will do the job and the Windoze
> key seems to map as an "Apple" key, although from memory non-Apple
> keyboards are not good for those special commands that you want to use in
> the boot sequence for single user mode and suchlike.

I've been using a Microsoft Digital Media Pro keyboard since 2006, with a
Powermac G4 DA and a Powermac G5 2.7 DP, and it's working flawlessly.
It's made for Windows' PC (has Windows keys), but I can remap those keys to
equivalent Mac ones using System Preferences.
Besides, Microsoft offer a driver for OSX, for programming media and user
keys.

Lastly, the Macs recognize startup sequences (like Command-S for single user
mode and Command-Option-P-R for resetting Pram) from this keyboard, as long
as it's connected to the Mac USB port (it might not work when connected to
an USB hub).

All in all, a good piece of hardware (as usually MS input devices are), that
is relatively cheap (it was 37 euros back then).


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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Robert MacLeay]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:42:55 PM UTC-7, Mac User #330250 wrote:
>
>
> Did I plug it in too early? Could it really be broken beyond repair? 
> All suggestions are wellcome… 
>

You can buy 99.953% isopropyl alcohol for electronics cleaning at the usual 
places. I paid $7.99 for a liter of it at Micro Center (although I don't 
see it in their online catalog) a few years ago. 

That said, I wish to insert a reality check: Even if you are successful, 
you will have spent a great deal of time and money, and will still wind up 
with a five year old keyboard. 

Shopping carefully, you can buy a decent used one for under $40. There are 
decent Mac-compatible substitutes available for less.

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Deiniol ap Deiniol]

The more modern the (Apple) keyboard, the harder it is to strip it down to 
clean it.  If you have a glued together one, they want you to buy a new one 
and be more careful in future!  That solution will certainly work. But in 
the real world, we grudge  paying £50 or so for a keyboard.  There are 
look-alike USB keyboards out there which will do the job and the Windoze 
key seems to map as an "Apple" key, although from memory non-Apple 
keyboards are not good for those special commands that you want to use in 
the boot sequence for single user mode and suchlike. Other group members 
can probably give informed knowledge about this.

In the past it has been suggested that keyboards will generally  survive 
careful treatment in a dishwasher,  and this will often fix them.  Somehow 
I don't think this technique would work that well on Andreas' model.

I have one of those domestic small domestic steam cleaners, that puts out a 
jet of pressurised steam.I'm SPECULATING that this might be good for 
older keyboards, but the temperature might be too much for the components!  
Any of the group got any experience trying this?  IN THEORY I reckon a jet 
of steam would give a very thorough flush, to remove dust and stickiness.  
The problem with sealed keyboards would be ensuring adequate drainage of 
the gunk and then ultimately, the clean condensed water, since you want to 
REMOVE the contaminants, rather than just MOVE-ing them around inside the 
keyboard.   Perhaps an airline would help to remove bulk of undrained water 
before drying in a warm place for a couple of weeks?  Possibly a discreetly 
and VERY CAREFULLY DRILLED drain hole underneath!?  I don't own this style 
of keyboard, so I am not* au fait *as to this possibility!

Thing is, it's probably borked anyway, so a reasonable subject for 
research!  I wouldn't fancy the job of removing all keys, etc - (clear 
clean bench and floor, with retaining bunds, and a scan or photocopy of the 
keyboard placed on a tray before putting everything removed in its place on 
the paper might save anguish!)  But a somewhat  Sisyphean task to try one's 
patience to the utmost, and you'd have to test it very thoroughly before 
putting it back together, IN CASE you didn't get one vital key fixed. 

Clingfilm wrapping a keyboard is a quick-and-dirty way of protecting one if 
you HAVE to do something in a hostile environment!

Good luck.  Dan.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:42:55 PM UTC, Mac User #330250 wrote:
>
> Hi! 
>
> Yesterday I spilled some juice all over my Apple Keyboard. It is the 
> Aluminium 
> USB version. 
>
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB110LL/B/apple-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad
>  
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#Apple_Keyboard_.28109_keys.29 
> It is model A1243 introduced in 2007; System requirements were back than 
> Mac 
> OS X 10.4.something; in the store it’s now 10.6.something… 
>
> After unplugging it I washed it using water, but the juice was in so deep 
> that 
> I feared I won’t get it all out without enought water, so I put it under 
> running water. I inverted it and allowed it to try for about 20 hours. 
>
> I later found that 24 to 48 hours would have been better: 
> http://guides.macrumors.com/Spilled_Liquid_On_My_Mac_or_Keyboard 
>
> The good news: the built-in USB hub works. 
> The bad news: the keyboard doesn’t. Not one keypress was recognized by the 
> system. 
>
> I tried to find a solution on YouTube, like how to open it, but I cannot 
> find 
> a good video that would help. Most videos deal with how to clean the 
> individual keys rather than how to open it. 
>
> Did I plug it in too early? Could it really be broken beyond repair? 
> All suggestions are wellcome… 
>
> Thanks, 
> Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250 
>

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Peter Devlin]

On 17/01/2013 02:44, "Bruce Johnson"  wrote:

> The aluminum keyboards are difficult to disassemble; they're completely glued
> together.

It's possible to remove the keys and springs to enable a more thorough
clean - here's a charming Apple ichild with a demo...



tedious though..

Pete


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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 16, 2013, at 6:57 PM, Wayne Stewart wrote:

> Don't know if this will be helpful with the aluminum. A friend used to get a 
> lot of earlier keyboards that had had spills from a local shop. He found 
> damaged traces and used a trace pen to repair them. Probably more than it's 
> worth for 1 keyboard but he got in 50 a year and fixed most of them


The aluminum keyboards are difficult to disassemble; they're completely glued 
together.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Clark Martin]

On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

> Yesterday I spilled some juice all over my Apple Keyboard. It is the 
> Aluminium 
> USB version.
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB110LL/B/apple-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#Apple_Keyboard_.28109_keys.29
> It is model A1243 introduced in 2007; System requirements were back than Mac 
> OS X 10.4.something; in the store it’s now 10.6.something…
> 
> After unplugging it I washed it using water, but the juice was in so deep 
> that 
> I feared I won’t get it all out without enought water, so I put it under 
> running water. I inverted it and allowed it to try for about 20 hours.
> 
> I later found that 24 to 48 hours would have been better:
> http://guides.macrumors.com/Spilled_Liquid_On_My_Mac_or_Keyboard
> 
> The good news: the built-in USB hub works.
> The bad news: the keyboard doesn’t. Not one keypress was recognized by the 
> system.
> 
> I tried to find a solution on YouTube, like how to open it, but I cannot find 
> a good video that would help. Most videos deal with how to clean the 
> individual keys rather than how to open it.
> 
> Did I plug it in too early? Could it really be broken beyond repair?
> All suggestions are wellcome…

The good news is a keyboard is one of the least likely things to take permanent 
damage from spillage.  I'm not familiar with the guts of that model (meaningI 
haven't stripped one down, yet), but if you can remove the keycaps do that and 
then let it sit somewhere where it's warm (on top of a computer or CRT monitor) 
and let it set for a week.  If that doesn't work try a month  

Normally for something like this I'd wash it with Isopropyl Alcohol but that 
only works if you can wash the water and juice off the keyboard.  If you can't 
open it up it would just move the contaminants around.

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Wayne Stewart]

Don't know if this will be helpful with the aluminum. A friend used to get 
a lot of earlier keyboards that had had spills from a local shop. He found 
damaged traces and used a trace pen to repair them. Probably more than it's 
worth for 1 keyboard but he got in 50 a year and fixed most of them

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Mac User #330250  wrote:

> Thank you very much!
> So I will keep the keyboard around; soak it several times and "spin it 
> around" 
> a bit, and hope for the best. I’ll also look out for isopropyl alcohol.

Something you can try is drying it at an elevated temp (~100F-ish) over 
dessicant in a sealed container. The dessicant keeps the air very dry, which 
aids evaporation as does the heat.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?
Date:Wednesday, 16. January 2013
From:Kris Tilford 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> I suggest the 98% isopropyl alcohol soaking solution.
> … and you might need to soak the keyboard several
> times, perhaps swinging the keyboard hard to use centrifugal action
> clear the dissolved juice before soaking again.

Thank you very much!
So I will keep the keyboard around; soak it several times and "spin it around" 
a bit, and hope for the best. I’ll also look out for isopropyl alcohol.

I hope that no damage has been introduced by connecting it while possible 
moisture (or worse!) was still inside it.

That was very helpful! So again, thank you very much!
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:


Could it really be broken beyond repair?
All suggestions are wellcome…


I suggest the 98% isopropyl alcohol soaking solution. They sell pure  
isopropyl as a gasoline additive to dry any water out of gas.  
Sometimes you can get pure isopropyl from a pharmacy. It's almost  
impossible to get stronger than 98% due to the fact that it absorbs  
water so easily. Isopropyl & water are miscible (mutual solvents of  
each other) and normally exist in equilibrium at 88% isopropyl & 12%  
water. Anything stronger than 88% will absorb water and evaporate that  
water relatively quickly.


The problem with the keyboard is that the contacts are in flat, thin  
sheets that absorb liquids by surface tension capillary action, so it  
will be hard to get all the juice to dissolve out from these  
restricted areas, and you might need to soak the keyboard several  
times, perhaps swinging the keyboard hard to use centrifugal action  
clear the dissolved juice before soaking again. Then let it dry a good  
while in a warm environment before using.


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Spillage on keyboard - broken beyond repair?

[Mac User #330250]

Hi!

Yesterday I spilled some juice all over my Apple Keyboard. It is the Aluminium 
USB version.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB110LL/B/apple-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#Apple_Keyboard_.28109_keys.29
It is model A1243 introduced in 2007; System requirements were back than Mac 
OS X 10.4.something; in the store it’s now 10.6.something…

After unplugging it I washed it using water, but the juice was in so deep that 
I feared I won’t get it all out without enought water, so I put it under 
running water. I inverted it and allowed it to try for about 20 hours.

I later found that 24 to 48 hours would have been better:
http://guides.macrumors.com/Spilled_Liquid_On_My_Mac_or_Keyboard

The good news: the built-in USB hub works.
The bad news: the keyboard doesn’t. Not one keypress was recognized by the 
system.

I tried to find a solution on YouTube, like how to open it, but I cannot find 
a good video that would help. Most videos deal with how to clean the 
individual keys rather than how to open it.

Did I plug it in too early? Could it really be broken beyond repair?
All suggestions are wellcome…

Thanks,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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