Re: [Audyssey] AI in games
Hi. My project is using some AI. What mine does is rolls a 1d100, then it has for each type of opponent sections of that 1 to 100 that tells it to do certain things. like, if it's less than 15 scan, if it's between 15 and 30 fire this, greater than 30 less than 80 approach, etc etc. The AI has around 200 chances per try to come up with something that it can do, but there is no extra delay for each time it tries, because that's the other part of the trick. When it comes up with something to try, it, just tries it, it doesn't actually do it. It calls a function that decides whether it will do it or not. If it has no capability to do that, then it obviously won't, but if it does have the capability, there is room to implement the capability to have a chance that it will do it, and you can set up some numbers to control the chances based on the likelihood that function is going to actually be useful to the AI, whether the AI for that particular type of opponent is good enough to be smart enough to do that, etc etc. For instance this is where it decides that won't fire the laser, as in a previous example by someone else, if you're too far away. Basically, the try things either do something and take away the try, or it does nothing at all and the function that is trying to decide what to do will still have that try left , and 199 chances now and it goes and rolls 1d100 again and tries the function that it came up with again based on the rules I first provided. So you can adjust likelihood to pick things to do in this way, and then you can adjust likelihood further for each individual decision on specific basis, and since it doesn't take away the try, just subtracts a chance, it doesn't mean the computer wasted time if it doesn't decide it will do what ever it was asked to do. This turned out to be pretty simple code to understand and mess around with, as it separated all the logic for each individual possibility and provided a ridiculously simple way to adjust likelihood that it would pick certain things. And I can add new AI's for new opponents by copying and pasting from one of the others and changing numbers around and maybe adding or removing a line or two if I need to add a special choice for this particular AI or remove one, and the number changing allows to make it more likely this this opponent will be scared a lot and want to run away for instance, or that it will usually just stand there and slug it out, as it were. Continuing with the slugging it out, if the AI has decided to try to slug it out, the code would then see if it can slug it out after all, does it have what it needs to do so. If it can't slug it out, then it doesn't do anything, the function just runs out without actually doing anything, and the try function will continue on it's loop. make the try function's loop count downward so the computer can give up if you totally screw it over and it literally can't do anything. I suggest 5ms delay for the loop so the computer will make up it's mind quickly. If you need the computer to pretend like it's thinking, make the actual decision when it comes up with something that it is actually going to do, then introduce how ever much lag you want as it does what it's going to do. In my case, when the computer does something, it completely eliminates the try function regardless of chances left, and if the computer gets to go again, then the try function is called up again and started with 200 chances again. Also consider this. In the functions that the try function is calling, you can have them actually call other functions that the try function is supposed to call and then return themselves back to the try function as if they did nothing. If the function it called agrees to go through, it will do it's job and remove the try and shut down the loop, then the code would return back to the function that called it, who would in turn return it back to the loop which is not running anymore because the one function just shut it down. If that function actually didn't do anything either, it would subtract a chance, return back to the function the try function originally called, who would either try another function of it's own or just return back to the try function after subtracting another chance. It sounds confusing but I'm trying to do this without giving away too much. I ended up having to make the AI kind of stupid in my game and just try random things, otherwise the player wouldn't have a chance at all to win the game. It does it to a certain limit though, it knows not to do stuff that absolutely would make no sense, firing weapons while out of range, for instance. In summery, using this approach it is a piece of cake if you figure out that your AI is doing a certain thing too much to tweak how often it's going to do that, just change a couple of numbers around, that would not affect whether it decides it can do that, just how
Re: [Audyssey] AI in games
This gives me quite a bit to look through. I'll have to do some more in depth study before I figure out how I actually want to build the code. As it stands, I'm trying to figure out what type of ai I want to build; random or strategic, or if I want to try for a mix. When I get to the code though, your info should help a lot. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] AI in games
I like to try beating Shredder Chess on my iPhone. It will, if you choose, adjust it's playing strength based on your skill. If you lose, it won't play as well during the next game. If you win, it won't be as easily beaten next time. I don't know how chess programs figure out their next moves, but it's fun to play against them, and they do use some form of artificial intelligence. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Zachary Kline zkl...@speedpost.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] AI in games John, I’m not a developer, but I think I can chime in here from a player’s perspective. AI is something I’d appreciate in many games, though it’s almost a necessity in certain genres, such as strategy titles. I need the illusion of a worthy opponent to keep my interest up. That being said, AI is hard, even for professional developers. I think the moment you try and build sophisticated decision making or the like into a game, you add a lot to your development time. Not all games need very much AI. Simple games can probably get away with random numbers, as can, obviously, purely online efforts. But anything single player probably requires at least a stab at it. Hope this helps a bit, Zack. On Mar 22, 2014, at 4:32 PM, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: This is a rather loaded question, so I apologize in advance to all the programmers who are probably going to get headaches trying to explain this to me. I'm looking to get some information on the pros and cons of various AI types in games. Is it worth designing a real ai? Under what circumstances does the type of ai used in entombed (all random) work, and in which does it not? Below, I'll explain what I have for information already: I understand that there are several different ways of building enemy intelligence into games. Specifically, there's the type in entombed, where the enemies do things completely at random, and hope for the best. There's the type of ai in the GMA games, where the computer just starts shooting as soon as it can, and hopes it hits you. There's a system like the one in smugglers three, where the computer uses its weaponry in a very specific order (it always fires missile first, then lasers if it can). Finally, there's a system where the computer actually looks at the numbers, and acts based on the information it can gather, in a manner that will most benefit it at the time. I'm not looking for specific advice on how to program the ai (yet), rather I'm asking for your personal experiences and opinions regarding ais in games. Can you give me examples of when you would use each type of system, or why you would never do so? Is there one type of system that is particularly difficult to manage? Is there a point where building more intelligence into the game begins to affect the performance and functionality of the game? Basically, what have you done previously, and what do you think the best way to handle this is? Thanks, John --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] AI in games
This is a rather loaded question, so I apologize in advance to all the programmers who are probably going to get headaches trying to explain this to me. I'm looking to get some information on the pros and cons of various AI types in games. Is it worth designing a real ai? Under what circumstances does the type of ai used in entombed (all random) work, and in which does it not? Below, I'll explain what I have for information already: I understand that there are several different ways of building enemy intelligence into games. Specifically, there's the type in entombed, where the enemies do things completely at random, and hope for the best. There's the type of ai in the GMA games, where the computer just starts shooting as soon as it can, and hopes it hits you. There's a system like the one in smugglers three, where the computer uses its weaponry in a very specific order (it always fires missile first, then lasers if it can). Finally, there's a system where the computer actually looks at the numbers, and acts based on the information it can gather, in a manner that will most benefit it at the time. I'm not looking for specific advice on how to program the ai (yet), rather I'm asking for your personal experiences and opinions regarding ais in games. Can you give me examples of when you would use each type of system, or why you would never do so? Is there one type of system that is particularly difficult to manage? Is there a point where building more intelligence into the game begins to affect the performance and functionality of the game? Basically, what have you done previously, and what do you think the best way to handle this is? Thanks, John --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] AI in games
John, I’m not a developer, but I think I can chime in here from a player’s perspective. AI is something I’d appreciate in many games, though it’s almost a necessity in certain genres, such as strategy titles. I need the illusion of a worthy opponent to keep my interest up. That being said, AI is hard, even for professional developers. I think the moment you try and build sophisticated decision making or the like into a game, you add a lot to your development time. Not all games need very much AI. Simple games can probably get away with random numbers, as can, obviously, purely online efforts. But anything single player probably requires at least a stab at it. Hope this helps a bit, Zack. On Mar 22, 2014, at 4:32 PM, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: This is a rather loaded question, so I apologize in advance to all the programmers who are probably going to get headaches trying to explain this to me. I'm looking to get some information on the pros and cons of various AI types in games. Is it worth designing a real ai? Under what circumstances does the type of ai used in entombed (all random) work, and in which does it not? Below, I'll explain what I have for information already: I understand that there are several different ways of building enemy intelligence into games. Specifically, there's the type in entombed, where the enemies do things completely at random, and hope for the best. There's the type of ai in the GMA games, where the computer just starts shooting as soon as it can, and hopes it hits you. There's a system like the one in smugglers three, where the computer uses its weaponry in a very specific order (it always fires missile first, then lasers if it can). Finally, there's a system where the computer actually looks at the numbers, and acts based on the information it can gather, in a manner that will most benefit it at the time. I'm not looking for specific advice on how to program the ai (yet), rather I'm asking for your personal experiences and opinions regarding ais in games. Can you give me examples of when you would use each type of system, or why you would never do so? Is there one type of system that is particularly difficult to manage? Is there a point where building more intelligence into the game begins to affect the performance and functionality of the game? Basically, what have you done previously, and what do you think the best way to handle this is? Thanks, John --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
