Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Hi Thomas, I couldn't imagine converting something like that over, then discarding it for something I didn't even need. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:54 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits Hi, Exactly. Were I not already a trained software developer I would be more than willing to invest in a tool like BGT, because of its features and ease of use. However, as it is I have already written my own game development tool, Genesis 3D, and it also has a lot of the hard work done. I should know I just spent the past thre/four months converting all of it from C# .NET to C++ and the Win32 API for MOTA beta 11. However, I think I know more than most how much hard work goes into a tool like BGT. Writing all the basic components like the input core, audio core, speech core, level editor, etc. It takes a long time and is a lot of work. All of that has to be done before you even start on a game, and I think it is safe to say everyone wants to get started right away with writing the game and not have to worry about the low level components. That's what BGT offers a person. A chance to start writing games without having to do all the low level programming and development from scratch. On 4/9/10, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Travis, > > Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools > they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a > general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra > time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are > getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly > speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the > pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more > there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price > range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the > codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want > to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially > with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those > who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I > am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making > money with the aid of my tools. > > That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing > of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of > this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they > only cost me time. > > Kind regards, > > Philip ennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Before you build a house, you've got to have a fondation. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits Hi, Exactly. Were I not already a trained software developer I would be more than willing to invest in a tool like BGT, because of its features and ease of use. However, as it is I have already written my own game development tool, Genesis 3D, and it also has a lot of the hard work done. I should know I just spent the past thre/four months converting all of it from C# .NET to C++ and the Win32 API for MOTA beta 11. However, I think I know more than most how much hard work goes into a tool like BGT. Writing all the basic components like the input core, audio core, speech core, level editor, etc. It takes a long time and is a lot of work. All of that has to be done before you even start on a game, and I think it is safe to say everyone wants to get started right away with writing the game and not have to worry about the low level components. That's what BGT offers a person. A chance to start writing games without having to do all the low level programming and development from scratch. On 4/9/10, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi Travis, Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making money with the aid of my tools. That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they only cost me time. Kind regards, Philip ennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
HI, Yes, I think we should also think about how much it costs developers to code such a power full tool kit. It is not cheap, I have no idea on what we have to write or buy for that, but I gues sit is not cheap. Also the time Phillip sits behind his... Well infront of his keyboard smashing his fingers into it is a time where he also could do other stuff than making it easier for us to create games. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:16:35 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits > Hi Travis, > > Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools > they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a > general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra > time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are > getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly > speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the > pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more > there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price > range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the > codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want > to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially > with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those > who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I > am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making > money with the aid of my tools. > > That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing > of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of > this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they > only cost me time. > > Kind regards, > > Philip ennefall > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Travis Siegel" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:02 AM > Subject: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits > > > > $800 is a bit much for a game only creation kit. > > When comparing game creation kits against full-blown programming kits, > > there's no comparison. > > Go back and compare it against creation kits for games, and you'll see > > entirely different results. > > Saying it's cheaper than the development kit for the xbox or something is > > silly. > > This isn't a different hardware environment, it's for the windows > > environment. > > If this was a general programming language, it may be in line, > > (look at delphi which turned into kilex) dot net and others, > > there is a president for charging lots for general purpose programming > > languages. > > However, game creation kits typically sell for considerably less. > > The 3d game maker is only $99, fps creator is 44 bucks, direct basic is 27 > > dollars, > > dark basic pro is 79 dollars. > > Play basic is $25, > > and these are only the first five that popped into my memory, there's > > hundreds of game cxreation toolkits, and 90 percent of them are $100 or > > less. > > Admittedly, these are general game creation, not audio only, which of > > course makes Phil's kit worth more, but not 8 times more. > > And, this isn't even considering the literally thousands of free game > > creation kits. > > I started developing a game creation kit myself, but abandon it when I > > bailed out of the > > vi game market when James North pulled his crap several years ago. > > David Greenwood charges for his system, though I don't know what the price > > is, or how many he's sold (might be good info to gather) > > But, if this game creation kit goes up for $800, I'm thinking I will > > release my creation kit, just to make things affordable for folks. > > I'm really not interested in doing so, but I honestly think folks d > > deserve a choice > > when it comes to having reasonable priced alternatives. > > Sorry, but even for professional development, 800 is just too much. > > > > > > --- > > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > > http
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Hi, Exactly. Were I not already a trained software developer I would be more than willing to invest in a tool like BGT, because of its features and ease of use. However, as it is I have already written my own game development tool, Genesis 3D, and it also has a lot of the hard work done. I should know I just spent the past thre/four months converting all of it from C# .NET to C++ and the Win32 API for MOTA beta 11. However, I think I know more than most how much hard work goes into a tool like BGT. Writing all the basic components like the input core, audio core, speech core, level editor, etc. It takes a long time and is a lot of work. All of that has to be done before you even start on a game, and I think it is safe to say everyone wants to get started right away with writing the game and not have to worry about the low level components. That's what BGT offers a person. A chance to start writing games without having to do all the low level programming and development from scratch. On 4/9/10, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Travis, > > Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools > they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a > general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra > time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are > getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly > speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the > pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more > there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price > range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the > codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want > to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially > with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those > who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I > am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making > money with the aid of my tools. > > That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing > of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of > this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they > only cost me time. > > Kind regards, > > Philip ennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Hi Travis, It has been a long time since I asked David for the pricing on the GMA Engine, but I believe the pricing went something like this. David, if I got the pricing wrong here please let us know, but I think this was the pricing scheme. Demo License $50.00 Unlimited License 2,000.00 He also offers it under a royalty type license where by you make so many sales and GMA gets a certain percent of the income. Either way you look at it BGT comes out cheaper in the long run. Anyway, i do get your point about mainstream prices verses BGT. Microsoft's XNA Studio is free for non-commercial use and can be used for PC and XBox titles. However, it also happens to use a full fledged programming language, C# .NET, which makes it slightly more useful than being limited to a scripting language. However, compared to BGT you don't have all the handy helpful features, and some of the XNA tools like XAct are pretty unaccessible. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Besides, David Greenwood's GMA engine costs considerably more to use, even for free games as I understand it. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the castle of ggh. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits Hi Travis, Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making money with the aid of my tools. That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they only cost me time. Kind regards, Philip ennefall - Original Message - From: "Travis Siegel" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits $800 is a bit much for a game only creation kit. When comparing game creation kits against full-blown programming kits, there's no comparison. Go back and compare it against creation kits for games, and you'll see entirely different results. Saying it's cheaper than the development kit for the xbox or something is silly. This isn't a different hardware environment, it's for the windows environment. If this was a general programming language, it may be in line, (look at delphi which turned into kilex) dot net and others, there is a president for charging lots for general purpose programming languages. However, game creation kits typically sell for considerably less. The 3d game maker is only $99, fps creator is 44 bucks, direct basic is 27 dollars, dark basic pro is 79 dollars. Play basic is $25, and these are only the first five that popped into my memory, there's hundreds of game cxreation toolkits, and 90 percent of them are $100 or less. Admittedly, these are general game creation, not audio only, which of course makes Phil's kit worth more, but not 8 times more. And, this isn't even considering the literally thousands of free game creation kits. I started developing a game creation kit myself, but abandon it when I bailed out of the vi game market when James North pulled his crap several years ago. David Greenwood charges for his system, though I don't know what the price is, or how many he's sold (might be good info to gather) But, if this game creation kit goes up for $800, I'm thinking I will release my creation kit, just to make things affordable for folks. I'm really not interested in doing so, but I honestly think folks d deserve a choice when it comes to having reasonable priced alternatives. Sorry, but even for professional development, 800 is just too much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subsc
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
The difference is that our market is much smaller. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the castle of ggh. - Original Message - From: "Travis Siegel" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 1:02 AM Subject: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits $800 is a bit much for a game only creation kit. When comparing game creation kits against full-blown programming kits, there's no comparison. Go back and compare it against creation kits for games, and you'll see entirely different results. Saying it's cheaper than the development kit for the xbox or something is silly. This isn't a different hardware environment, it's for the windows environment. If this was a general programming language, it may be in line, (look at delphi which turned into kilex) dot net and others, there is a president for charging lots for general purpose programming languages. However, game creation kits typically sell for considerably less. The 3d game maker is only $99, fps creator is 44 bucks, direct basic is 27 dollars, dark basic pro is 79 dollars. Play basic is $25, and these are only the first five that popped into my memory, there's hundreds of game cxreation toolkits, and 90 percent of them are $100 or less. Admittedly, these are general game creation, not audio only, which of course makes Phil's kit worth more, but not 8 times more. And, this isn't even considering the literally thousands of free game creation kits. I started developing a game creation kit myself, but abandon it when I bailed out of the vi game market when James North pulled his crap several years ago. David Greenwood charges for his system, though I don't know what the price is, or how many he's sold (might be good info to gather) But, if this game creation kit goes up for $800, I'm thinking I will release my creation kit, just to make things affordable for folks. I'm really not interested in doing so, but I honestly think folks d deserve a choice when it comes to having reasonable priced alternatives. Sorry, but even for professional development, 800 is just too much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
Hi Travis, Of course, people are free to make their individual choices for what tools they want to use for the particular task at hand. For those who can use a general purpose programming language and who are willing to spend the extra time building things from scratch, that's fair enough. But with BGT you are getting lots of things done for you out of the box that will significantly speed up the development process. Also, if you make a few games using the pro version of the tool you will certainly make that money back and more there to. The lite version is 65 USD, so now we're talking the same price range as the others you mention. But as the owner of these resources, the codebase that forms the components that feature in BGT, I feel that I want to be compensated if people are going to use this to make money. Especially with it being a one-time fee, I think it's more than reasonable. For those who want to make free games, the lite version is available as I said and I am able to make that more affordable since people won't actually be making money with the aid of my tools. That is the best way in which I can explain my thinking behind the pricing of BGT. And I can say that I have spent thousands of dollars getting some of this code written, except of course for the parts that I wrote myself; they only cost me time. Kind regards, Philip ennefall - Original Message - From: "Travis Siegel" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: [Audyssey] prices of game creation kits $800 is a bit much for a game only creation kit. When comparing game creation kits against full-blown programming kits, there's no comparison. Go back and compare it against creation kits for games, and you'll see entirely different results. Saying it's cheaper than the development kit for the xbox or something is silly. This isn't a different hardware environment, it's for the windows environment. If this was a general programming language, it may be in line, (look at delphi which turned into kilex) dot net and others, there is a president for charging lots for general purpose programming languages. However, game creation kits typically sell for considerably less. The 3d game maker is only $99, fps creator is 44 bucks, direct basic is 27 dollars, dark basic pro is 79 dollars. Play basic is $25, and these are only the first five that popped into my memory, there's hundreds of game cxreation toolkits, and 90 percent of them are $100 or less. Admittedly, these are general game creation, not audio only, which of course makes Phil's kit worth more, but not 8 times more. And, this isn't even considering the literally thousands of free game creation kits. I started developing a game creation kit myself, but abandon it when I bailed out of the vi game market when James North pulled his crap several years ago. David Greenwood charges for his system, though I don't know what the price is, or how many he's sold (might be good info to gather) But, if this game creation kit goes up for $800, I'm thinking I will release my creation kit, just to make things affordable for folks. I'm really not interested in doing so, but I honestly think folks d deserve a choice when it comes to having reasonable priced alternatives. Sorry, but even for professional development, 800 is just too much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] prices of game creation kits
$800 is a bit much for a game only creation kit. When comparing game creation kits against full-blown programming kits, there's no comparison. Go back and compare it against creation kits for games, and you'll see entirely different results. Saying it's cheaper than the development kit for the xbox or something is silly. This isn't a different hardware environment, it's for the windows environment. If this was a general programming language, it may be in line, (look at delphi which turned into kilex) dot net and others, there is a president for charging lots for general purpose programming languages. However, game creation kits typically sell for considerably less. The 3d game maker is only $99, fps creator is 44 bucks, direct basic is 27 dollars, dark basic pro is 79 dollars. Play basic is $25, and these are only the first five that popped into my memory, there's hundreds of game cxreation toolkits, and 90 percent of them are $100 or less. Admittedly, these are general game creation, not audio only, which of course makes Phil's kit worth more, but not 8 times more. And, this isn't even considering the literally thousands of free game creation kits. I started developing a game creation kit myself, but abandon it when I bailed out of the vi game market when James North pulled his crap several years ago. David Greenwood charges for his system, though I don't know what the price is, or how many he's sold (might be good info to gather) But, if this game creation kit goes up for $800, I'm thinking I will release my creation kit, just to make things affordable for folks. I'm really not interested in doing so, but I honestly think folks d deserve a choice when it comes to having reasonable priced alternatives. Sorry, but even for professional development, 800 is just too much. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
