Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
I'm the same way. I apparently have guitar player's fingers LOL. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! -Original Message- From: Teresa Cochran Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:25 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac,was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question i can use one finger to press VO and shift. i don’t have large fingers, but I’m used to playing musical instruments, and my fingers are pretty long. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me. I gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired keyboard. (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can sort of work around that. You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows however. Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are quite a few cycle keys in OS X.) Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon). That locks the VO keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of needing to unlock when you're finished. If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more quickly. You'll get used to it. I surprise sighted people by installing software faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly OS X installer. :) Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Theresa, I think at least some of the complaints about the VO keys come from people who are playing with OS X on non-Apple hardware, where the control and alt keys are not side-by-side like the control and option keys are. Of course, this can be fixed for PC keyboards in Mac System Preferences, where you can easily reassign those keys, but why bother looking for a solution when you can complain on an email list. *grin* On Dec 14, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > i can use one finger to press VO and shift. i don’t have large fingers, but > I’m used to playing musical instruments, and my fingers are pretty long. > > Teresa > > "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. > Feynman > > On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either >> way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad >> commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me. I >> gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired >> keyboard. (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to >> be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can >> sort of work around that. You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows >> however. Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to >> sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are >> quite a few cycle keys in OS X.) >> >> Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon). That locks the VO >> keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of >> needing to unlock when you're finished. >> >> If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also >> works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more >> quickly. You'll get used to it. I surprise sighted people by installing >> software faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly >> OS X installer. :) >> >> Cheers, >> Sabahattin >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
You can also use a Windows app called SharpKeys to reassign any key on the keyboard to be the Insert if you need that under Windows. VoiceOver’s got a wide range of tools that have great use cases depending on what you need to do. I personally use a combination of Keyboard Commander, Trackpad Commander, QuickNav, and standard VO commands. I don’t care for the numpad commander, myself, but I know some people love it. On Dec 14, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either > way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad > commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me. I > gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired > keyboard. (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to > be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can > sort of work around that. You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows > however. Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to > sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are > quite a few cycle keys in OS X.) > > Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon). That locks the VO > keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of > needing to unlock when you're finished. > > If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also > works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more quickly. > You'll get used to it. I surprise sighted people by installing software > faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly OS X > installer. :) > > Cheers, > Sabahattin > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
i can use one finger to press VO and shift. i don’t have large fingers, but I’m used to playing musical instruments, and my fingers are pretty long. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either > way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad > commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me. I > gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired > keyboard. (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to > be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can > sort of work around that. You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows > however. Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to > sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are > quite a few cycle keys in OS X.) > > Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon). That locks the VO > keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of > needing to unlock when you're finished. > > If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also > works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more quickly. > You'll get used to it. I surprise sighted people by installing software > faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly OS X > installer. :) > > Cheers, > Sabahattin > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me. I gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired keyboard. (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can sort of work around that. You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows however. Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are quite a few cycle keys in OS X.) Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon). That locks the VO keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of needing to unlock when you're finished. If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more quickly. You'll get used to it. I surprise sighted people by installing software faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly OS X installer. :) Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi dallas, Thanks for that info man. I remember now reading something about the num pad commander, but never did check it out, no excuse for my laziness there. I do have an external bluetooth keyboard by logiTech, which is awesome by the way, you can assign it to three different devices, so for instance I can hit the f 2 key and use it for my apple TV, then f 1 to go back to the mac book, very cool. The keyboard does not have a num pad on it however. I suppose there are bluetooth num pads one could purchase, any idea? Sorry if this seems off topic, I guess technically it is, but it impacts me as a game developer, hope that gets us a pass. Take care, Che -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dallas O'Brien Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:10 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question hi Che, from messing around with OSX in a vm, i learned one thing. apple has added in a numpad commander. this makes navigating around the system farely quick and painless. feels a bit like nvda in some ways. except you don't need to use a modifyer. 6 and 4 become similar to VO right and VO left. 9 becomes interact, 7 becomes uninteract. numpad 5 becomes similar to a double tap on the trackpad / activate item with normal VO commands. and so on. you can also map the other numpad keys to various functions. you turn the numpad commander on, by holding the VO keys down, and pressing the numlock key. this of course, means you will have to either use the wired apple keyboard that you can buy, or preferably, a standard external keyboard. i use a wireless one, but you could of course use a wired one if you wanted. the advantage to this, compared to using quick nav, is that for example. when you want to type in an edit field, you won't face problems with quicknav getting in the way of certain key presses. so it makes entry and navigation a lot more smooth. of course, unless you map a key on the numpad to navigate to next heading and so on, this will mean you will have to use such commands as VO H to navigate to next headings and so on in safari. but its easy to map a key on the numpad to go to next heading. also, when numpad commander is on, pressing numlock is defaulted to taking you straight to the dock. so there is another handy fast way of getting around. press the numlock, type the first letter, or first couple of letters of what you want from your dock, and hit enter to open it. Good luck with RR2. i'll be buying it in a few days, when my money comes in. can't wait! regards: Dallas On 15/12/2013, Che Martin wrote: > Hi Josh and all, > Fair enough, sorry I misunderstood what you were posting there, my bad. > That is very interesting that your mac sales are far outstripping > windows sales, I would be curious to know the numbers there, but I > completely understand if you'd rather keep it under your hat. > I have put up Rail Racer 2 for sale, where folks can buy the beta > and get all upgrades as it reaches final release, and sales have been > far more impressive than I thought they would be so far, so still > plenty of folks wanting accessible games for windows at this point. > I may yet get to a point where I've earned over $2 an hour for the > coding and tech support time, hah. > I have no idea how many of these folks are running windows on mac, > that would be a good thing to know, I might set up a poll on audio > games and see what the response is. > The last time I did some informal polling, windows users outstripped > mac users in the blind community at least 10 to 1, but those are > slippery numbers for several reasons, including what you are saying > about mac purchasers being more willing to fork over cash for their > gaming experience. > I completely agree that the appple hardware is more solid than the > same price point PC hardware, the stuff is just rock solid. I have a > mac book pro, and hav had zero issues with it. > I just wish apple would spend some more time on their voiceover > interface, it is to me cumbersome in a lot of areas for no good > reason. For instance, why two keys for VO by default? > I realize you can use the touch pad, and the quick nav is a way > better way to go as well, but man, some of their interface decisions > are just baffling. > Having to drill up and down into Xcode over and over and over is just > ridiculous to me. > Even with quick nav, I have to move my hands off the main keys, then > press two arrow keys to drill up or down, then back again, there is > just no good reason for this much of a waste of time, I don't get it. > Having developed with visual studio, then going to Xcode with > voiceover feels like going from running to crawling. > I know a large part of that is me not being nearly as familiar with > Xcode, but having worked with it for months now, its still > frustrating, and it seems to me unnecess
