Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
me too, took me a while to notice it - Original Message - From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Lol! This happens to me too so don't beat your self over it *grin* - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi Yohandy, Ok, I really feel stupid. Lol! I just found said check box on my new laptop and turned the Welcome Center off, but when I installed Vista on my old laptop I searched all over for a check box and couldn't find one so I disabled it through the registry. I wonder how I missed it before. I must have had a blond moment or something, and I am not blond. Yohandy wrote: actually there's a way to turn it off, at least when I got my computer there was. it's a checkbox which I of course checked immediately. lol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi. Just so you know, there's a way to turn that off without the registry, cackles gleefully. From the explorer folder view list view of the welcome center, tab round till you get some kind of button saying something about stop displaying welcome center on startup and hit it with both barrels. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi Charles, Oh, I see. Yeah, to an outsider the registry might seam pretty complicated and mysterious. However, I've been working with it for about three months and I now have a pretty good grasp of how every thing is organized, and how to manually add, change, and remove keys. It really actually is simpler than a lot of people believe once you get the basic concept of where everything is and how it works. That said, I wouldn't recommend playing around in there if you don't know what you are doing. For example, in Windows Vista there is a very annoying Window that comes up called the Windows Welcome Center. You can not turn it off, because Microsoft doesn't want you to. Instead they would rather have it in the way annoying you as you work. Well, I went into the registry with my new found know-how and I am no longer bothered with the Welcome Center coming up every time I start my computer. It is a dead Windows service. he he he he he. As my friend yogi Bear always says, I'm smarter than the average bear. Charles Rivard wrote: Just the way it is built on sort of a treelike structure. I only mentioned it because of how it is said to be very complex to navigate and make changes if necessary, and the danger of doing it wrong, and for orneriness. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi John, I was reading some documentation on java.sun.com on Java 6, and according to the Sun docs on Java 6 an application is either cold started or warm started according to when it is launched. A cold startup is called a cold startup when an application is first run. The first time a Java application like FreeTTS is first run all the required JRE components are loaded into the system's cach which obviously has a longer load time than if the Java runtime components were in the cach. A warm startup is called a warm startup when a Java 6 app is launched and the JRE components are already in the system cach. Obviously, the load and access time for the application is faster because the application doesn't have to wait for the JRE components to be loaded into the system's cach. i am sure you know what i am talking about, but you may not have been aware of the official Sun terminology for the different startup types. Smile John Bannick wrote: Thomas, What means warm started re FreeTTS? I just invoke it when it's needed. Therefore, there is a delay the first time it is called. Have you some magic to share? John --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Lol! This happens to me too so don't beat your self over it *grin* - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi Yohandy, Ok, I really feel stupid. Lol! I just found said check box on my new laptop and turned the Welcome Center off, but when I installed Vista on my old laptop I searched all over for a check box and couldn't find one so I disabled it through the registry. I wonder how I missed it before. I must have had a blond moment or something, and I am not blond. Yohandy wrote: actually there's a way to turn it off, at least when I got my computer there was. it's a checkbox which I of course checked immediately. lol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi Charles, On the contrary reusing code is not cheating. It is actually one of the core principles behind object oriented languages like Java, Python, and C# .NET. Code reuse is one of the major principles, foundations, drilled into new programming students heads when they enter a tech school or university. For example, object oriented languages use a technique called inheritance. Inheritance allows a programmer to expand or extend a piece of existing code to meet the demands of a new program. This saves lots of time because the base functionality of the existing code remains the same, but is improved or specialized by the new code extension. Another cool feature of modern programming languages is known as polymorphism. With this technique you can create several methods with the same name but different parameters. The compiler or runtime environment will be able to figure out which method you are using and correctly execute your code. This symplifies things by allowing you to use the same code but differently on a case by case basis. Software companies that are in it for the long hall tend to create development kits which are typically core libraries or applications that can be used to quickly put together new applications with a common framework. Often times development kits can be based on other development kits that might be based on more lower level development kits to symplify or specialise a development kit for a specific need. For example let us say USA Games creates a sdk for game programming. That development kit might be based on the .NET Framework and Managed DirectX which are development kits from Microsoft based on lower level development kits like Win32 and the DirectX com components. All of it is possible through object oriented design that can be extended and reextended as needed. Everytime you extend an applications code it gets more specialised and yet still has the base functionality at the top of the code tree. For example, let us say we make a class called starship. This holds all the generic data for a starship. Well, we need something more specific so we create a class called Federation which Extends starship with some specific features of Federation starships. However, the Federation has all kinds of starships so we need to subclass them in To Galaxy Class, Defiant Class, Sovereign Class, Constitution Class, etc. If we want to add some enemy ships we could extend the Starship class by adding a class called Romulan, and then subclasses of Romulan ships. Do you see how the code tree works? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi, Yes, exactly. I realise I have a lot of work ahead of me but it gives me a chanse to improve upon my earlier code ideas and fix things I missed along the way. Perhaps put in more error trapping, error logging, etc so the new engine is more stable. Not only that but the Java language seams especially designed for extendable programs and code reuse. One thing I am really falling in love with in Java is Java beans. A bean can be anything from a program utility or an entire program that can be extended or included into a larger program to quickly and rapidly build new and more powerful applications. It is the lazy coders dream. Just include it and suddenly you have saved yourself x amount of work by including that one bean. Cheating? Heck no. Just a programmers wishes come true. Every programmer loves to have ready to use code at his or her command. John Bannick wrote: Charles, It's not really cheating. In fact, reusable code is the Holy Grail of commercial programming. When I finished the first version of our stuff, my late wife asked me, How much of it is reusable? I responded, None of it. She opined, Then you've failed. So I rewrote it. And am grateful for the prod, because our company lives on top of that reusable architecture. Thomas is right. Rewriting all of his C# and .NET common code will be a lot of work. However, generally a rewrite results in improved code because you get a chance to fix things that have bugged you forever. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Agreed, and I think it's a very good decision to move to a more universal language so to speak. smile and that's not because I'm on a Mac! lol! the idea of reusable code is a very important feature of OOP languages in general, so it's not only not cheating, but also accepted practice... Have an awesome day!… Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 27, 2008, at 8:19 AM, John Bannick wrote: Charles, It's not really cheating. In fact, reusable code is the Holy Grail of commercial programming. When I finished the first version of our stuff, my late wife asked me, How much of it is reusable? I responded, None of it. She opined, Then you've failed. So I rewrote it. And am grateful for the prod, because our company lives on top of that reusable architecture. Thomas is right. Rewriting all of his C# and .NET common code will be a lot of work. However, generally a rewrite results in improved code because you get a chance to fix things that have bugged you forever. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Makes perfect sense. Now for something more fun--let's tackle the Windows registry. (very ornery grin) --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi Charles, On the contrary reusing code is not cheating. It is actually one of the core principles behind object oriented languages like Java, Python, and C# .NET. Code reuse is one of the major principles, foundations, drilled into new programming students heads when they enter a tech school or university. For example, object oriented languages use a technique called inheritance. Inheritance allows a programmer to expand or extend a piece of existing code to meet the demands of a new program. This saves lots of time because the base functionality of the existing code remains the same, but is improved or specialized by the new code extension. Another cool feature of modern programming languages is known as polymorphism. With this technique you can create several methods with the same name but different parameters. The compiler or runtime environment will be able to figure out which method you are using and correctly execute your code. This symplifies things by allowing you to use the same code but differently on a case by case basis. Software companies that are in it for the long hall tend to create development kits which are typically core libraries or applications that can be used to quickly put together new applications with a common framework. Often times development kits can be based on other development kits that might be based on more lower level development kits to symplify or specialise a development kit for a specific need. For example let us say USA Games creates a sdk for game programming. That development kit might be based on the .NET Framework and Managed DirectX which are development kits from Microsoft based on lower level development kits like Win32 and the DirectX com components. All of it is possible through object oriented design that can be extended and reextended as needed. Everytime you extend an applications code it gets more specialised and yet still has the base functionality at the top of the code tree. For example, let us say we make a class called starship. This holds all the generic data for a starship. Well, we need something more specific so we create a class called Federation which Extends starship with some specific features of Federation starships. However, the Federation has all kinds of starships so we need to subclass them in To Galaxy Class, Defiant Class, Sovereign Class, Constitution Class, etc. If we want to add some enemy ships we could extend the Starship class by adding a class called Romulan, and then subclasses of Romulan ships. Do you see how the code tree works? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi Cara, Yes. Not only that, but more universal languages like Java are more centralized arounda common framework and code base than are Microsoft's .NET languages. A game written in Java may only require the Sun JRE to run provided you haven't tied into OpenAL, DirectX, or some other third-party development API. To create the same game in C# .NET at a minimum you need to install the .NET Framework, DirectX or XNA, and optionally Sapi voices. In Comparison .NET stuff kind of bites. I know FreeTTS doesn't sound quite as good as some commercial voices for Mac, Linux, and Windows do but I have noticed that it is very reliable. Sure it takes a little time to load with a Java cold start, but if it is warm started FreeTTS is as responsive, fast, and works just as good as Eloquence is with Jaws. In fact, it might even work a little better with Java 6, and it can be run on Linux, Mac, and Windows. Cara Quinn wrote: Agreed, and I think it's a very good decision to move to a more universal language so to speak. smile and that's not because I'm on a Mac! lol! the idea of reusable code is a very important feature of OOP languages in general, so it's not only not cheating, but also accepted practice... Have an awesome day!… Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi, The Windows registry? What could we possably have to talk about that involves the registry? It is nothing more than a place where settings and other application data is stored as keys. Charles Rivard wrote: Makes perfect sense. Now for something more fun--let's tackle the Windows registry. (very ornery grin) --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Just the way it is built on sort of a treelike structure. I only mentioned it because of how it is said to be very complex to navigate and make changes if necessary, and the danger of doing it wrong, and for orneriness. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi, The Windows registry? What could we possably have to talk about that involves the registry? It is nothing more than a place where settings and other application data is stored as keys. Charles Rivard wrote: Makes perfect sense. Now for something more fun--let's tackle the Windows registry. (very ornery grin) --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
Hi Charles, Oh, I see. Yeah, to an outsider the registry might seam pretty complicated and mysterious. However, I've been working with it for about three months and I now have a pretty good grasp of how every thing is organized, and how to manually add, change, and remove keys. It really actually is simpler than a lot of people believe once you get the basic concept of where everything is and how it works. That said, I wouldn't recommend playing around in there if you don't know what you are doing. For example, in Windows Vista there is a very annoying Window that comes up called the Windows Welcome Center. You can not turn it off, because Microsoft doesn't want you to. Instead they would rather have it in the way annoying you as you work. Well, I went into the registry with my new found know-how and I am no longer bothered with the Welcome Center coming up every time I start my computer. It is a dead Windows service. he he he he he. As my friend yogi Bear always says, I'm smarter than the average bear. Charles Rivard wrote: Just the way it is built on sort of a treelike structure. I only mentioned it because of how it is said to be very complex to navigate and make changes if necessary, and the danger of doing it wrong, and for orneriness. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007
actually there's a way to turn it off, at least when I got my computer there was. it's a checkbox which I of course checked immediately. lol - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] reused code - Re: Accessible Game releases, 2007 Hi Charles, Oh, I see. Yeah, to an outsider the registry might seam pretty complicated and mysterious. However, I've been working with it for about three months and I now have a pretty good grasp of how every thing is organized, and how to manually add, change, and remove keys. It really actually is simpler than a lot of people believe once you get the basic concept of where everything is and how it works. That said, I wouldn't recommend playing around in there if you don't know what you are doing. For example, in Windows Vista there is a very annoying Window that comes up called the Windows Welcome Center. You can not turn it off, because Microsoft doesn't want you to. Instead they would rather have it in the way annoying you as you work. Well, I went into the registry with my new found know-how and I am no longer bothered with the Welcome Center coming up every time I start my computer. It is a dead Windows service. he he he he he. As my friend yogi Bear always says, I'm smarter than the average bear. Charles Rivard wrote: Just the way it is built on sort of a treelike structure. I only mentioned it because of how it is said to be very complex to navigate and make changes if necessary, and the danger of doing it wrong, and for orneriness. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
