[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
He is from Wrightsville. Wrightsville to Athens = 120.14 miles. Wrightsville to Gainesville = 305.00 miles Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ken...@earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:46 AM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Warner Robbins? I remember reading that he drove to Athens to start his freshman year in a brand new car. Wonder how that happened? Go Gators Ken B. (NYC Gator) Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed _ From: Oliver Barry oli...@bobparks.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:26:41 -0600 To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Well, that's only a 5 hour drive to Gainesville. You were right, he should've gone a little farther south. :-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jerry Belloit bell...@clarion.edu Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:03:36 To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel He is from Wrightsville. Wrightsville to Athens = 120.14 miles. Wrightsville to Gainesville = 305.00 miles Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ken...@earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:46 AM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Warner Robbins? I remember reading that he drove to Athens to start his freshman year in a brand new car. Wonder how that happened? Go Gators Ken B. (NYC Gator) Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed _ From: Oliver Barry oli...@bobparks.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:26:41 -0600 To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
On Nov 2, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Jerry Belloit wrote: There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. Not that that would be a bad thing, but all per game statistics have minimum numbers associated with them. for example, Brantley is not the #1 quarterback in the NCAA for pass efficiency, as he has not appeared in enough games and/or thrown enough passes in the games that he has appeared in. One might quibble a bit as to the minimum #s required, but by and large no one does. I'd have to guess that they are fairly reasonable, and assumed that they would be part of my (or any) proposal as they are already part of the current per game approach. Unfortunately, that would knock out Collingsworth. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. I would guess that career records would require three years of play. That would allow for those who go pro a year early. I suppose that might leave out someone so stellar that he redshirted his first year, played two great years and then went pro (such Bradford, had he gone pro after last year). By and large, anyone good enough to be in the record-breaking mix didn't sit out his freshman year. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim’s record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. A very good point. Durability should count for something. I just can't see how to reconcile durability with the goal of normalizing a 14 game NCAA season with an 11 game season, or a 16 game NFL season with a 10 or 12 game season. If we don not, every all-time record set by legends of the game will be broken by above average players simply because of greater opportunities (e.g. Franco Harris setting the all- time career NFL rushing record). Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? I don't see this as a problem. In the era where there were Freshman teams, no one went pro early, so Wilt and Lew had three years of NCAA ball to meet the three year minimum. Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to “standardize” the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let’s look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men’s basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. Someone did that, and Pete Maravich averaged about 90 points a game at his peak. No one else - not Jordan, not Bernard King, not Dan Thompson, not Wilt - even comes close. I can agree that a rule is a rule, that was the point of my original post. My secondary point was that if someone wanted to ignore a rule is a rule and try to normalize across eras, adding 5 TDs to Herschel for his bowl games is the wrong way to do it, and propose a better methodology. -Zeb --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Warner Robbins? I remember reading that he drove to Athens to start his freshman year in a brand new car. Wonder how that happened? Go Gators Ken B. (NYC Gator) Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed -Original Message- From: Oliver Barry oli...@bobparks.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:26:41 To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
According to Wikipedia, he's from Wrightsville. According to google maps, Wrightsville is 53 miles due East of Warner-Robbins. As some one who's never been to either of those towns, you can take that as gospel. :-) SHANE GO GATORS! From: ken...@earthlink.net ken...@earthlink.net To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 10:45:36 AM Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Warner Robbins? I remember reading that he drove to Athens to start his freshman year in a brand new car.. Wonder how that happened? Go Gators Ken B. (NYC Gator) Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed From: Oliver Barry oli...@bobparks.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:26:41 -0600 To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd GallatinTN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 From:gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From:gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups..com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie From:gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim’s record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to “standardize” the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let’s look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men’s basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals…rats, fouled again! Jerry From:gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Wrightsville... which is more eastern central. East of Macon. Cee - Original Message - From: Oliver Barry To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Where was Hershel from? Somewhere in south Georgia I think. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 -- From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:58 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie -- From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry -- From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
I have read and heard this argument now about a dozen times. CBS even included it in their graphic when the record was broken. There are two problems with this argument: 1. It is stupid. Players nowadays can accumulate stats in a 12th regular season game and a conference championship game, but it is the bowl game rule that is letting career stats be broken? Really? TT had 14 games count last year, Walker had 11 each of his year. That's where the variable is, not the bowl issue. This is the same reason that breaking O.J.'s single season rushing record in a 16 game season when it was set in a 12 game season is silly. Pundits everywhere saw this coming when the season was lengthened and bowl games were made official. All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. Which leads to... 2. Why is Tebow the first time that anyone has brought this issue up? There are dozens of records that have been broken only because of the 12th game plus the bowl game. I have never seen the issue raised until now, much less in a graphic by the broadcast company when the record was broken. Another good example is Bowden's victory total that includes what would be Division II victories at Samford. At the time, there was no distinction, so the NCAA rule is that they count as Division I. A dumb rule, but a rule is a rule, and no one brings the issue up - unless it is Tebow. -Zeb On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Juno Gator wrote: QB Tim Tebow Looked like the Tebow of old Saturday, completing 15-of-21 passes for 164 yards and two touchdowns, and rushing 18 times for 85 yards and two more touchdowns. Tebow had his first turnover-free day since Sept. 26 against Kentucky, and the offense generally looked crisp and prepared against a soft Georgia defense. And props to Tebow for scoring career rushing touchdowns 50 and 51, breaking Herschel Walker’s rushing touchdown record. True Tebow fans, though, won’t be happy until Tebow gets to 55 touchdowns, because we all know that Walker really had 54. Walker had five touchdowns in bowl games that the SEC refuses to apply retro-actively for some reason, even though the SEC counts Tebow’s bowl game TDs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Just look at the source. They only like Miami there. Oliver Barry CRS,GRI Real Estate Broker Bob Parks Realty 1517 Hunt Club Blvd Gallatin TN 37066 Phone: 615-826-4040 Fax: 615-822-2027 Mobile: 615-972-4239 _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I have read and heard this argument now about a dozen times. CBS even included it in their graphic when the record was broken. There are two problems with this argument: 1. It is stupid. Players nowadays can accumulate stats in a 12th regular season game and a conference championship game, but it is the bowl game rule that is letting career stats be broken? Really? TT had 14 games count last year, Walker had 11 each of his year. That's where the variable is, not the bowl issue. This is the same reason that breaking O.J.'s single season rushing record in a 16 game season when it was set in a 12 game season is silly. Pundits everywhere saw this coming when the season was lengthened and bowl games were made official. All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. Which leads to... 2. Why is Tebow the first time that anyone has brought this issue up? There are dozens of records that have been broken only because of the 12th game plus the bowl game. I have never seen the issue raised until now, much less in a graphic by the broadcast company when the record was broken. Another good example is Bowden's victory total that includes what would be Division II victories at Samford. At the time, there was no distinction, so the NCAA rule is that they count as Division I. A dumb rule, but a rule is a rule, and no one brings the issue up - unless it is Tebow. -Zeb On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Juno Gator wrote: QB Tim Tebow Looked like the Tebow of old Saturday, completing 15-of-21 passes for 164 yards and two touchdowns, and rushing 18 times for 85 yards and two more touchdowns. Tebow had his first turnover-free day since Sept. 26 against Kentucky, and the offense generally looked crisp and prepared against a soft Georgia defense. And props to Tebow for scoring career rushing touchdowns 50 and 51, breaking Herschel Walker's rushing touchdown record. True Tebow fans, though, won't be happy until Tebow gets to 55 touchdowns, because we all know that Walker really had 54. Walker had five touchdowns in bowl games that the SEC refuses to apply retro-actively for some reason, even though the SEC counts Tebow's bowl game TDs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
It doesn't matter how you want to look at it. I agree that Herschels bowl game stats should be included, so Tim will break the record with 4 more TDs. But to say the records should be based on per game stats is ridiculous. Herschel touched the ball 994 times, Tim is below 600. So when the season is done, Tim will have carried the ball almost 200 time less than Herschel. Also, when Tim gets sacked, that counts as a carry, Walkers carries were all designed running plays. even including the lost yardage for sacks, Tim averages 4.3 ypc, Walker 5.3. What makes this record so amazing is that Tim is a QB and he has also thrown for 77 TDs! And just for the record, Tim has only scored 2 of his rshing TDs in bowl games, Walker had 5. Ken K MNGator _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I have read and heard this argument now about a dozen times. CBS even included it in their graphic when the record was broken. There are two problems with this argument: 1. It is stupid. Players nowadays can accumulate stats in a 12th regular season game and a conference championship game, but it is the bowl game rule that is letting career stats be broken? Really? TT had 14 games count last year, Walker had 11 each of his year. That's where the variable is, not the bowl issue. This is the same reason that breaking O.J.'s single season rushing record in a 16 game season when it was set in a 12 game season is silly. Pundits everywhere saw this coming when the season was lengthened and bowl games were made official. All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. Which leads to... 2. Why is Tebow the first time that anyone has brought this issue up? There are dozens of records that have been broken only because of the 12th game plus the bowl game. I have never seen the issue raised until now, much less in a graphic by the broadcast company when the record was broken. Another good example is Bowden's victory total that includes what would be Division II victories at Samford. At the time, there was no distinction, so the NCAA rule is that they count as Division I. A dumb rule, but a rule is a rule, and no one brings the issue up - unless it is Tebow. -Zeb On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Juno Gator wrote: QB Tim Tebow Looked like the Tebow of old Saturday, completing 15-of-21 passes for 164 yards and two touchdowns, and rushing 18 times for 85 yards and two more touchdowns. Tebow had his first turnover-free day since Sept. 26 against Kentucky, and the offense generally looked crisp and prepared against a soft Georgia defense. And props to Tebow for scoring career rushing touchdowns 50 and 51, breaking Herschel Walker's rushing touchdown record. True Tebow fans, though, won't be happy until Tebow gets to 55 touchdowns, because we all know that Walker really had 54. Walker had five touchdowns in bowl games that the SEC refuses to apply retro-actively for some reason, even though the SEC counts Tebow's bowl game TDs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
I don't think that your argument matches with your premise. My argument is that the lengthened season has distorted career and season records and my conclusion is that a method needs to be uses to equalize the difference in length between seasons. My suggestion was to use average TDs per game as the yardstick You point out that my suggestion is not appropriate, but then suggest to use average carries per TD as a yardstick. I think your yardstick is just as good, and like it a bit better in this case as it shows TT in a better light than a mangy dog. I also think it's interesting that the powers that be that write these articles all argue to add 5 TDs for Walker's bowl games and none mention simply taking away 2 from TT for his bowl games. -Zeb On Nov 2, 2009, at 11:34 AM, Ken Kirkley wrote: It doesn't matter how you want to look at it. I agree that Herschels bowl game stats should be included, so Tim will break the record with 4 more TDs. But to say the records should be based on per game stats is ridiculous. Herschel touched the ball 994 times, Tim is below 600. So when the season is done, Tim will have carried the ball almost 200 time less than Herschel. Also, when Tim gets sacked, that counts as a carry, Walkers carries were all designed running plays. even including the lost yardage for sacks, Tim averages 4.3 ypc, Walker 5.3. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Ah, I love it when our resident research analysts dig up all the ammo we need to shut the puppies up. Stuff like this makes me look like I know what I'm talking about and my challengers slink off in awe. ;-) Randy - Original Message - From: Ken Kirkley To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel It doesn't matter how you want to look at it. I agree that Herschels bowl game stats should be included, so Tim will break the record with 4 more TDs. But to say the records should be based on per game stats is ridiculous. Herschel touched the ball 994 times, Tim is below 600. So when the season is done, Tim will have carried the ball almost 200 time less than Herschel. Also, when Tim gets sacked, that counts as a carry, Walkers carries were all designed running plays. even including the lost yardage for sacks, Tim averages 4.3 ypc, Walker 5.3. What makes this record so amazing is that Tim is a QB and he has also thrown for 77 TDs! And just for the record, Tim has only scored 2 of his rshing TDs in bowl games, Walker had 5. Ken K MNGator -- From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel I have read and heard this argument now about a dozen times. CBS even included it in their graphic when the record was broken. There are two problems with this argument: 1. It is stupid. Players nowadays can accumulate stats in a 12th regular season game and a conference championship game, but it is the bowl game rule that is letting career stats be broken? Really? TT had 14 games count last year, Walker had 11 each of his year. That's where the variable is, not the bowl issue. This is the same reason that breaking O.J.'s single season rushing record in a 16 game season when it was set in a 12 game season is silly. Pundits everywhere saw this coming when the season was lengthened and bowl games were made official. All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. Which leads to... 2. Why is Tebow the first time that anyone has brought this issue up? There are dozens of records that have been broken only because of the 12th game plus the bowl game. I have never seen the issue raised until now, much less in a graphic by the broadcast company when the record was broken. Another good example is Bowden's victory total that includes what would be Division II victories at Samford. At the time, there was no distinction, so the NCAA rule is that they count as Division I. A dumb rule, but a rule is a rule, and no one brings the issue up - unless it is Tebow. -Zeb On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Juno Gator wrote: QB Tim Tebow Looked like the Tebow of old Saturday, completing 15-of-21 passes for 164 yards and two touchdowns, and rushing 18 times for 85 yards and two more touchdowns. Tebow had his first turnover-free day since Sept. 26 against Kentucky, and the offense generally looked crisp and prepared against a soft Georgia defense. And props to Tebow for scoring career rushing touchdowns 50 and 51, breaking Herschel Walker's rushing touchdown record. True Tebow fans, though, won't be happy until Tebow gets to 55 touchdowns, because we all know that Walker really had 54. Walker had five touchdowns in bowl games that the SEC refuses to apply retro-actively for some reason, even though the SEC counts Tebow's bowl game TDs. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel
I agree. On top of that Hershel is a class guy. I just wish he would have moved a little further South than heading North to go to college. Jerry From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:43 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Even though I hate the dawgs all the way to the bone I do think Walker was one of the best to have played the game. Charlie _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Belloit Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel Zeb, There is a problem with this as well. Using your concept, Chris Collingsworth was the greatest QB in NCAA history because his average yards per throw was 99 and his completion percentage was 100%. You could have a person who played only one year win the record. Tim has the record because he has stayed longer and played more games. Part of Tim's record is his durability. Perhaps Hershel would have been injured had he payed as many games and then might not have had as many touchdowns. Similarly, what about those who played on the freshmen teams. Should their statistics be added in? Any system will have its problems. If this is the way we keep score now, then that is what we live with. I suppose you could argue that we need to standardize the way we keep the records. The problem with that is that you can not always really do that. For example, let's look at the highest scoring shooting guards in Men's basketball. To be fair to the older players, we would have to find the videos of all of their games, calculate where the 3 point line would have been had they been playing with one, and then recalculate their career points. The problem is that if there would have been a 3 point line, perhaps more people would have tried 3 point goals.rats, fouled again! Jerry _ From: gatortalk@googlegroups.com [mailto:gatort...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vega Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: Gatortalk@googlegroups.com Subject: [gatortalk] Re: TT vs. Herschel All of career and season stats should be kept on an average per game basis, but they are not because - if they did - Jim Brown would still be the NFL's leading rusher. Until someone adopts this method, the rule is the rule. BR --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
