Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
Do you mean apart from grabbing the ends and dragging them (which seems to work ok for me)? On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 07:47 +0100, Jonatan Åkerlind wrote: Hi! Is there a way to trim and/or extend traces in PCB? If not, this would be a very nice feature to have. /Jonatan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Peter Baxendale School of Engineering Durham University South Road Durham DH1 3LE tel 0191 33 42492 fax 0191 33 42408 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
On tor, 2006-12-21 at 09:28 +, Peter Baxendale wrote: Do you mean apart from grabbing the ends and dragging them (which seems to work ok for me)? I thought that didn't work, but now when I try it actually does :-) Anyway it is hard to grab the end, because I was moving some elements and wanted to change the length of some traces but all I was able to do was to move the whole trace. But, then perhaps something like real trim/extend would be nice: you select the trim/extend tool and select the trace that defines the limit to extend to/trim at, and then you select the trace to trim/extend which will then be trimmed at/extended to the previous selected trace. /Jonatan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: hierarchy of schematics
John Griessen wrote: What is missing is a design database (a well-defined directory structure would do fine), with clear separation what is a symbol, schematics or other data. We now have that in gnetman and datadraw. No one's spent the time to start using it yet though... If you have experience making good choices of data structures with databases, I urge you to read up the docs on gnetman and datadraw and suggest the structure that would make for hierarchic schematics. Well, I'm not competent enough for doing a real job. The following is a sketch of schema that I would like to have in gschem: database -* library -* parameter (global) library - name -* cell -* parameter (library-level) cell - name -* subcell (e.g. symbol slot or multi-sheet schematic page) -* view -* pin -* parameter (cell-level) subcell - name -* view -* pin (subset of cell pins + offsheet pins) view - name - view_type (symbol, schematic, pcb, layout, vhdl, ngspice...) -* parameter parameter - name - value - type - description pin - name - direction (in, out, inout...) - type (hierarchical, offsheet) - width (for buses) - net name to connect at higher hierarchy level (like avdd or null) - netlisting order - description symbol -* shape schematic -* shape -* net -* instance shape - bounding box - shape_type (line, path, rectangle, polygon, oval, arc, text...) - layer (could be useful for layout/pcb) net - name - width -* shapes instance - instance_name - cell -* pin_wire_mapping ... Some comments: 1. Why subcell? There are two ways of drawing schematics hierarchical and flat (multi-sheet schematics). First is used in simulation, transistor-level IC design etc., second - mostly for component-level design (PCB, BoM). We need some way to abstract these concepts. So, for example: - cells can be used only for pure-hierarchical design. Each cell has its own namespace (pins, nets, instances names). - subcells can be used for making multi-sheet schematics, multi-slot symbols, etc. All subcells share their parent cell's namespace. I.e. all pins, nets and instances names are global in respect to parent cell. Drawing tool should warn if there is any name clash (like same net name without offsheet pin). 2. View types. Each tool should register its own list of view types in. For example ngspice netlister could register/use views ngspice, spice, schematic. 3. Pin, net name to connect at higher hierarchy level. This can be used for making cells like ground or power which, when connected to a net, force its name to this predefined name (like: agnd, avdd). 4. Other tools support implicit pin definitions, however (IMHO) this practice should not be encouraged and above schema does not provide such possibility. 5. Storage. What data should be stored in a single file/database and what should be written to another file/directory? Cadence dfii is using separate files down to view level. This is good for very large view databases (like flat layout design) but keeping inter-view data in sync is difficult. AR ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: PCB Trim/extend traces
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:16:50 +0100, Jonatan Åkerlind wrote: Anyway it is hard to grab the end, This is a known issue. Question to the Free Dogs: Are there plans to introduce visual handles at the end of the lines? ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
Anyway it is hard to grab the end, because I was moving some elements and wanted to change the length of some traces but all I was able to do was to move the whole trace. What I do is hide the silk layer. That prevents you from grabbing elements. But, then perhaps something like real trim/extend would be nice: you select the trim/extend tool and select the trace that defines the limit to extend to/trim at, and then you select the trace to trim/extend which will then be trimmed at/extended to the previous selected trace. If we can get the grab trace end functionality working more smoothly, it sounds like you just need snap to intersecting trace added (in addition to snap to pad, pin, or grid). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
Jonatan Åkerlind wrote: Do you mean apart from grabbing the ends and dragging them (which seems to work ok for me)? I thought that didn't work, but now when I try it actually does :-) Anyway it is hard to grab the end, There is a setting for mouse snap to line ends snap distance, I think, but could not find it in the manual just now. I make sure my lines are on grid with a larger grid setting than 1 mil. 5 mils is enough, and more can be good also. The place on a line end to grab -- the line dragging handle -- is the center of the circle or semicircle that forms the line end. When you got the entire line to move, you might have had it selected, or your mouse landed on the line, not on the line-end-circle's center. The PCB menu Settings--ThinDraw or toggling default keybinding keyi changes all traces between a centerline only appearance where the line end is the grab handle, and normal view showing the extent of copper for a trace. With a 5 mil grid, I can select and move lines well while looking at about 2500 mils across my screen, a fairly high view, which always helps productivity. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
There is a setting for mouse snap to line ends snap distance, I think, but could not find it in the manual just now. Looks like it's fixed at 10 pixels, assuming nothing else gets in the way. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Trim/extend traces
On tor, 2006-12-21 at 09:43 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: What I do is hide the silk layer. That prevents you from grabbing elements. yes, me too If we can get the grab trace end functionality working more smoothly, it sounds like you just need snap to intersecting trace added (in addition to snap to pad, pin, or grid). Actually I personally don't like to snap to other things than the grid. Mostly because even if the snap is working as intended my experience is that it will snap to things not wanted. So for me personally I would prefer the trim/extend explained above (being used to AutoCAD and QCad). /Jonatan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb search order
How does one delete the M4 from pcb? I see no reason for me to learn two ways of creating footprints and so I will default to using the newlib way only. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:geda-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KURT PETERS Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 6:37 PM To: geda-user@moria.seul.org Subject: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb search order I am using the suggested project file invocation of gsch2pcb which allows it to succesfully find both m4 and newlib footprints: schematics mnaxbow_1.sch mnaxbow_2.sch elements-dir /usr/local/share/geda/share/pcb/newlib m4-pcbdir /usr/local/share/geda/share/pcb/m4 output-name mnaxbowout Unfortunately, it searches M4 before newlib for things like 0805, 0603 resistors, etc. Does anyone know how to force it to check newlib first? I tried changing the order in the project file, and no luck. Before you suggest just deleting the m4 entry, I must say that I'm still using a few parts from it that I can't find anywhere and I'm too lazy to make myself. Kurt ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: PCB Trim/extend traces
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:45:14 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Are there plans to introduce visual handles at the end of the lines? I'll add it to the todo list (src/todo in pcb's sources). Once this is on the done list, it will be a significant step ahead on the usability scale ;-) ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: PCB Trim/extend traces
Once this is on the done list, it will be a significant step ahead on the usability scale ;-) Hey, don't let me stop you from adding it yourself ;-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: gsch2pcb search order
As luck would have it, I can't seem to get it to NOT use the m4's first. Does anyone know how to get it to not even search for the m4's? Kurt ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: PCB Trim/extend traces
Are there plans to introduce visual handles at the end of the lines? I have checked in changes to the CVS tree that create a cursor change indicating when dragging will move the line end-point. I've also cut the slop range in half, which helps the useability quite a bit too. harry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
