Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb : coming up empty
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:14:54 -0500 John Luciani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Loaded into pcb directly, or brought in when used as a footprint attribute attached to a symbol? Now I can't get ANY footprint to load from the symbol. I am using gsch2pcb version 1.4 Check the footprint attribute on the symbol and verifiy that the attribute value is the same as the footprint name (no whitespace or additional characters). If you accidentally entered a whitespace character in emacs your footprint may not load. Sorry for me jumping in, but I remembered a situation a while ago having the same problem also. The cause of the problem is the dashes in the filename of the footprint. If the OP had not used multiple dashes there would not have been a problem. After I figured out I forgot about it and I should have filed a bug instead. Gsch2pcb produces a garbled pcb file if there are dashes inside a symbol filename. Attached is a sample project that does produce a garbled pcb file (line 57) on my system. Yes, I know, electronically it isn't a very good design :-). Version info: guile 1.6.7 gsch2pcb 1.5 gschem 20061020 pcb CVS (mid-december) Kind regards, Hans I've spent all evening screwing with this ... trying various combinations of different footprints, changing attributes using gattrib or editing the symbols (either in emacs or using gschem) and I can't get it to work. You may want to post a *simple* schematic that demonstrates the problem. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user test.sch Description: Binary data brd-test.pcb Description: Binary data project Description: Binary data ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pintype attritubute and gnetlist
On 1/3/07, Carlos Nieves Ónega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El mar, 02-01-2007 a las 18:26 -0500, John Luciani escribió: [snip] PCB doesn't need to know. The intent of the pintypes is to help prevent design errors such as connecting an output to an output, and output to gnd, etc. Unfortunately there are many applications where the design check fails. For example you could connect the output of a DC-DC to GND to generate a negative rail. This would generate an error since an output is connected to ground even though it is valid and common application. Sometimes the pintype can be different if you see it from different points of view... In the above example, I'd use a pwr pintype (power output). Would connecting a pwr pin to gnd or another pwr pin produce an error? (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb : coming up empty
On 1/3/07, Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've spent all evening screwing with this ... trying various combinations of different footprints, changing attributes using gattrib or editing the symbols (either in emacs or using gschem) and I can't get it to work. You may want to post a *simple* schematic that demonstrates the problem. I did, in the message that started this thread ... Your schematic and footprint worked for me. I moved your footprint into my footprint directory and ran the command line gsch2pcb --elements-dir /local/lan/pcb/packages test.sch (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: [pcb] RenumberBlock plug-in
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/renumberblock.c This goes along with the page-renumber script I posted recently. The idea is that you design one module on one schematic page, and lay it out on the board. Then copy the page to other pages with page-renumber, and copy the block on the layout to other blocks with copy/paste and RenumberBlock. Then re-run gsch2pcb and load the new netlist, and you're mostly done. I expect to use a few sed scripts to clean up a few per-page netnames and such, for my use (four zone controllers on one board). DJ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: mv M4 libraries
To make sure PCB does not find the M4 libraries, all one would need to do is to mv installed_here/geda/geda-sources/pcb/pcb-20060822/lib directory to say mv installed_here/geda/geda-sources/pcb/pcb-20060822/lib-back??? Is that correct? I ask because I have not been granted the power of root on this computer, thus I would like to minimize my requests for help from IT. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: mv M4 libraries
On 1/3/07, Ostheller, Joel A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To make sure PCB does not find the M4 libraries, all one would need to do is to mv installed_here/geda/geda-sources/pcb/pcb-20060822/lib directory to say mv installed_here/geda/geda-sources/pcb/pcb-20060822/lib-back??? Is that correct? That's what I did. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb : coming up empty
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:32:19 -0700 Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:03 AM, Hans Nieuwenhuis wrote: Sorry for me jumping in, but I remembered a situation a while ago having the same problem also. The cause of the problem is the dashes in the filename of the footprint. If the OP had not used multiple dashes there would not have been a problem. After I figured out I forgot about it and I should have filed a bug instead. That's not it; John Luciani's library is full of parts with all manner of dashes and underscores. My problem went away after finding and removing some old geda libraries (I know it is a FAQ :-) and re-installing the latest versions from source, maybe that helps for you too. Hans ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
Bad idea, since we're planning on moving the M4 step to build time in the future, making every footprint a newlib style. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
The future sounds nice... I will just write a script to rename all my footprints when that time comes. At the moment I can not afford to waste anymore time with the M4 footprints being used as default. If I was on my computer where I have sufficient accesses to track this issue down, it might be a different story. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:geda-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie Bad idea, since we're planning on moving the M4 step to build time in the future, making every footprint a newlib style. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Success! was Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb : coming up empty
On Jan 3, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Hans Nieuwenhuis wrote: On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:32:19 -0700 Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 8:03 AM, Hans Nieuwenhuis wrote: Sorry for me jumping in, but I remembered a situation a while ago having the same problem also. The cause of the problem is the dashes in the filename of the footprint. If the OP had not used multiple dashes there would not have been a problem. After I figured out I forgot about it and I should have filed a bug instead. That's not it; John Luciani's library is full of parts with all manner of dashes and underscores. My problem went away after finding and removing some old geda libraries (I know it is a FAQ :-) and re-installing the latest versions from source, maybe that helps for you too. Whilst browsing the archives of this list, I came across a message that asked how to force gsch2pcb to ignore the old m4 libraries entirely (answer: simply delete or rename the directory). From its output, it appeared that the gsch2pcb program seemed to think that the bad symbols were somehow supposed to be in the m4 library. So I shitcanned the m4 library entirely ($ mv /sw/share/pcb/m4 /sw/ share/pcb/_m4) and gsch2pcb works ... Progress! -a PS: I found in the archives a rather heated discussion about the relevance of the m4 libraries in particular and the m4 macro processor itself in general. Somebody wondered what Unix programs, other than pcb, used m4, and there was no answer. Turns out there IS an answer, and it's a biggie: sendmail configuration files are all written to use m4. One wonders if sendmail's inscrutable configuration was the reason exim, qmail and postfix were developed! The sendmail book is by far the thickest of all of the O'Reilly books, even if you consider that it's printed on the thinnest- possible paper in the smallest possible typeface. I like the bat, though. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:09 PM, John Luciani wrote: On 1/3/07, Ostheller, Joel A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can not get gsch2pcb / pcb to stop using the M4 library as a default. What does your gsch2pcb command line look like? Are you using the --use-files switch? gsch2pcb --use-files --elements-dir ~/YOUR_FOOTRPINT_DIR SCHEMATIC_NAME --use-files doesn't cause gsch2pcb to ignore the m4 libraries. Maybe a switch can be added to gsch2pcb: --no-m4-libs ?? -a ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
No... I was not aware of the --use-files command. I will give that a shot and see if it produces better outputs. Yes my problem was that M4 was being used first. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:geda-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Luciani Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:10 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ? On 1/3/07, Ostheller, Joel A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can not get gsch2pcb / pcb to stop using the M4 library as a default. What does your gsch2pcb command line look like? Are you using the --use-files switch? gsch2pcb --use-files --elements-dir ~/YOUR_FOOTRPINT_DIR SCHEMATIC_NAME (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
On 1/3/07, Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:39 PM, John Luciani wrote: On 1/3/07, Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:09 PM, John Luciani wrote: On 1/3/07, Ostheller, Joel A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can not get gsch2pcb / pcb to stop using the M4 library as a default. What does your gsch2pcb command line look like? Are you using the --use-files switch? gsch2pcb --use-files --elements-dir ~/YOUR_FOOTRPINT_DIR SCHEMATIC_NAME --use-files doesn't cause gsch2pcb to ignore the m4 libraries. Maybe a switch can be added to gsch2pcb: --no-m4-libs ?? It will cause the newlib files to be used first. Wasn't the original problem that the M4 libraries were used first? That seemed to be the problem. However, --use-files didn't seem to do what it was supposed to do. In other words, even though I did $ gsch2pcb -v --use-files --elements-dir /Users/andy/Library/gEDA/pcb power.sch gsch2pcb still searched for m4 libraries first. I know this because the spiel from the command would say C11: have m4 element 0805, but trying to replace with a file element. Found: /Users/andy/Library/gEDA/pcb/jcl/0805 C11: added new file element for footprint 0805 (value=0.1uF) : have m4 element , but trying to replace with a file element. No file element found. : added new m4 element for footprint(value=) The unknown entry below C11 is one of the chips that called out that SOT223- footprint. I believe that gsch2pcb always searches for m4 lib parts (by running m4 macros) but will insert newlib parts if the --use-files switch is used and a newlib file is found (as is indicated by the C11 message). If believe the error may be caused by the m4 macro that is called for the SOT223 when gsch2pcb runs. The macro may not like the value of the footprint attribute. I believe that the macro is in smt.inc When you delete or move the m4 libraries, running gsch2pcb (with exactly the same command line), you get an error message saying /sw/bin/gm4: /sw/share/pcb/m4/common.m4: No such file or directory which is expected, because it was deleted. Now gsch2sch doesn't search the m4 libs and the unknown part is no longer unknown: C11: need new file element for footprint 0805 (value=0.1uF) Found: /Users/andy/Library/gEDA/pcb/jcl/0805 C11: added new file element for footprint 0805 (value=0.1uf) U1: need new file element for footprintf SOT223-230P-650W-356L-4N (value=LM317EMP) Found: //Users/andy/Library/gEDA/pcb/asp/SOT223-230P-650W-356L-4N U1: added new m4 element for footprint SOT223-230P-650W-356L-4N (value=LM317EMP) In this case the macro for the SOT223 is not called since it could not be found. So it looks like gsch2pcb doesn't honor --use-files in the expected manner. It depends what your expectations are ;-) I think I agree with you here. I would expect --use-files to look for a newlib file and use it if it is found and not run any m4 macros. If it is not found then m4 macros would be run. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: good idea - bad idea ?
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:39:13 -0500, John Luciani wrote: --use-files doesn't cause gsch2pcb to ignore the m4 libraries. Maybe a switch can be added to gsch2pcb: --no-m4-libs ?? It will cause the newlib files to be used first. The m4 libs are searched first regardless the switch. If --use-files is given, gsch2pcb continues to look for a newlib instance of the symbol in the newlib directories. This is close, but not exactly as you say. If for some reason the newlib footprint cannot be found, gsch2pcb may still happily announce success. You have to wade through the output of the -v option to discover footprints that were erroneously taken from the m4 lib. Is there a reason, why there is no real --no-m4-libs option? ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
What, exactly, does this mean? Bad idea, since we're planning on moving the M4 step to build time in the future, making every footprint a newlib style. Some of the M4's are not-so-great, so if this means that the M4's will be converted to newlib, thus essentially forcing users to use the current M4's, then I'm not in favor. But, since I don't know what that statement implies, I wasn't sure how to respond. Kurt ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: good idea - bad idea ?
What, exactly, does this mean? Bad idea, since we're planning on moving the M4 step to build time in the future, making every footprint a newlib style. Some of the M4's are not-so-great, so if this means that the M4's will be converted to newlib, thus essentially forcing users to use the current M4's, then I'm not in favor. But, since I don't know what that statement implies, I wasn't sure how to respond. We at least want to pre-compute all the footprints so that the user doesn't need to run M4 while they're laying out boards. For example, this would help Windows installations, which don't have M4 by default. That would also allow us to use other programs to generate footprints, like perl or python. I think keeping them as M4s just because you want to segregate bad footprings from good ones is misleading. EVERY footprint is potentially good or bad; for example, the 0603-style footprints in M4 are quite good, and maintaining them as macros is very easy. My comment was simply that in the future, we will only have one type of footprint. What you need to do *now* is just make sure that your personal libraries have preference over the default ones when the names conflict, using techniques that don't depend on whether the footprints are M4 or newlib style. So, using a newlib_* prefix is bad, because eventually there will be no newlib just lib ;-). Using a mine_* prefix is better, or making a practice of either fixing existing footprints or providing missing footprints, while staying with standard names. Note that PCB now has the ability to store arbitrary attributes in footprints; mine all have copyright and origin information in them so I can track them better after they're in the board. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB Autorouter is awesome.
I just routed a small thru-hole board in less than 1 minute. After putting my footprints where I thought they should go, I sequenced through several of the optimized routed tracks routines. I used the following in the following order: debumpify unjaggy miter I now have a board that is better routed than any I could have done manually. It is totally mindblowing! Phil ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Newbie fab Qs
I'm happily using gschem PCB to design my board, and now I'm actually thinking about fabricating it :) For a 2-layer board, PCB Express requires the following Gerber files: Top Bottom - positive polarity Aperture/Dcode file (if not RS274X) Excellon Drill file Drill Tool list (if not embedded within NC Drill file) Soldermask Top Bottom - positive polarity Silkscreen 1 or 2 sides - positive polarity Super newbie question: how do I generate these files? And what is RS274X? And do you have any tricks/pitfalls recommendations for generating these files? Many, many TIA, Craig ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Newbie fab Qs
Also, note that older versions of pcb used different default names for gerber files. You'll have to figure it out, it's usually pretty straightforward, except for when they named them by group number. Use something like gerbv to view the gerbers to figure out which one is front and which is back. Also, print your gerbers (Export-Postscript or PS) and verify your footprints (put the parts on them) before sending them off. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Newbie fab Qs
I've sent stuff to PCB Express using PCB, and it always comes out like a champ. Note that the 'board.plated-drill.cnc' is only the plated drill holes, and does not include any holes you have that are unplated. I usually open up 'board.unplated-drill.cnc' and copy over any holes (and drills) into the plated file and stick that into the file archive to send to them. I don't know if it would mess anything up to just cat the two files together, I haven't tried it. Keep an eye out for specials from PCB Express too, they tend to have free express days off and on. -Steve On Jan 3, 2007, at 9:46 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: I'm happily using gschem PCB to design my board, and now I'm actually thinking about fabricating it :) For a 2-layer board, PCB Express requires the following Gerber files: For a given board.pcb . . . Top Bottom - positive polarity This is the normal gerber output from pcb. Use Export-Gerber. Look for board.front.gbr and board.back.gbr (front is the component side, back is the solder side). Aperture/Dcode file (if not RS274X) We are RS274X. Excellon Drill file board.plated-drill.cnc Drill Tool list (if not embedded within NC Drill file) It's embedded. Soldermask Top Bottom - positive polarity board.frontmask.gbr board.backmask.gbr Silkscreen 1 or 2 sides - positive polarity board.frontsilk.gbr board.backsilk.gbr Super newbie question: how do I generate these files? File-Export-Gerber And what is RS274X? The newer gerber file format. The older one, RS274D, didn't include the aperture definitions (i.e. pen shape/size). And do you have any tricks/pitfalls recommendations for generating these files? Gerber output is pretty dummy-proof. Just push the button and send them the files. The only pitfalls are (1) swapping gerbers (usually your fault for tagging them wrong), or (2) if the fab misinterprets the polarity (rare, they usually can tell when it's wrong). Some fabs want dos-compatible file names, and may suggest names. Just rename the file if needed. Include a README.TXT that says what each file is for, if the fab doesn't include a web interface for defining them (4pcb does). There's no standard for naming the various gerber files, so each fab has some technique for letting you tell them which is which. Some fabs, like pcb-pool, prefer encapsulated formats (like orcad or eagle files). I use gc-preview to encapsulate them, which just means reading in the gerbers, tagging them for purpose, and writing out a single project file. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
