Re: gEDA-user: pcb: a segfault bug in rats.c:AddAllRats()
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 17:06 +, Seb James wrote: Quite possibly not the list to put this message. I'll put this in bug tracking as well. Here is a crashing bug with pcb: This occurs when I disperse all the elements in my design. There are a lot of them and they run off the page even if I set it to the max size 3 by 3. The key thing is that the elements disperse off the diagram. Once dispersed off the edge of the diagram, if I call the optimize rats nest function, I get a segfault: With more testing, and setting the size of the diagram to allow me to disperse all the elements, I find that the crashing still occurs when I load the netlist, then disperse all elements, then try to optimize the rats nest. If I _don't_ disperse, but manually move a few components out into the diagram, then the optimize rats nest step completes with no crash. Seb James ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: symbol error shows up with gsymcheck
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 17:57 +0100, Werner Hoch wrote: Hi Seb, On Monday 05 March 2007 12:41, Seb James wrote: I have a symbol, 7I33_IO.sym which has four slots. When I run gsymcheck on the symbol, I get the following errors which I don't understand. Can anyone help me here? Your slotdef attributes are attached to the box. Just remove the brackets in line 3 and 24 or detach them from the box. Thanks for the info Werner. I should have posted that I discovered that with a bit of trial and error in the end. Knowing how to detach an attribute by removing the brackets is useful. This business of attaching or not attaching is a little confusing for a new user. The error messages generated by gsymcheck only indicate the problem if you know the code, I think. Might be something to add some extra documentation about in the faqs. best, Seb James ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 10:41 -0700, Marc Moreau wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:51:45 + Seb James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ERROR: Duplicated reference U3501. I neglected to say one important thing about multiple parts... Each unit must have a unique refdes, but all the same. Okay.. Example... I call my parts U3163pwr U3163ioone U3163iotwo U3163adc Great! That's it! Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: a segfault bug in rats.c:AddAllRats()
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 09:40 -0800, Ben Jackson wrote: On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 05:06:37PM +, Seb James wrote: max size 3 by 3 I think if you hand-edit the file you can make it larger. One of the first lines in the .pcb file will start with PCB and has the dimensions. The key thing is that the elements disperse off the diagram. It's worth trying my smartdisperse plugin, not because it tries to deal with this case in particular, but because it will pick a different order for your board that might fit in less area: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/ben_jackson/ I tried your plugin, which is very good and lays the components out in much less space. I was hoping that this might act as a workaround for this crashing bug, but alas, not. I'll just have to debug the problem *puts on diving helmet* Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: a segfault bug in rats.c:AddAllRats()
On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 09:53 +, Seb James wrote:
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 17:06 +, Seb James wrote:
Quite possibly not the list to put this message. I'll put this in bug
tracking as well.
Here is a crashing bug with pcb:
This occurs when I disperse all the elements in my design. There are a
lot of them and they run off the page even if I set it to the max size
3 by 3. The key thing is that the elements disperse off the
diagram.
Once dispersed off the edge of the diagram, if I call the optimize rats
nest function, I get a segfault:
With more testing, and setting the size of the diagram to allow me to
disperse all the elements, I find that the crashing still occurs when I
load the netlist, then disperse all elements, then try to optimize
the rats nest.
If I _don't_ disperse, but manually move a few components out into the
diagram, then the optimize rats nest step completes with no crash.
The bug was triggered by the following problem in my design:
Can't find U3551 pin 99 called for in netlist.
Can't find U3551 pin 87 called for in netlist.
Can't find U3551 pin 75 called for in netlist.
Can't find U3551 pin 63 called for in netlist.
etc etc (lots more messages)...
The crash occurred in rats.c, around line 610 in the function
DrawShortestRats() where CreateNewRat() is called with some arguments
which don't exist. There was no check in DrawShortestRats() that these
arguments are safe to pass to CreateNewRat() so I have patched the file;
patch attached.
This patch has been generated comparing with pcb 20070208.
Now I have to find out why these pins aren't in the netlist...
Seb
--- rats.c.orig 2007-02-04 02:29:28.0 +
+++ rats.c 2007-03-06 13:25:25.0 +
@@ -342,6 +342,7 @@
{
ConnectionTypePtr conn;
+ /* It would be worth checking if SourceNet is NULL here to avoid a segfault. Seb James. */
CONNECTION_LOOP (SourceNet);
{
conn = GetConnectionMemory (DestNet);
@@ -575,11 +576,13 @@
register float distance, temp;
register ConnectionTypePtr conn1, conn2, firstpoint, secondpoint;
Boolean changed = False;
+ Boolean havepoints = False;
Cardinal n, m, j;
NetTypePtr next, subnet, theSubnet = NULL;
+ if (Netl-NetN 2) { return False; }
firstpoint = secondpoint = NULL;
- while (Netl-NetN 1)
+ do
{
subnet = Netl-Net[0];
distance = SQUARE (MAX_COORD);
@@ -598,34 +601,38 @@
distance = temp;
firstpoint = conn1;
secondpoint = conn2;
+ havepoints = True;
theSubnet = next;
}
}
}
}
- if (funcp)
- {
- (*funcp) (firstpoint, secondpoint, subnet-Style);
- }
- else
- {
- /* found the shortest distance subnet, draw the rat */
- if ((line = CreateNewRat (PCB-Data,
-firstpoint-X, firstpoint-Y,
-secondpoint-X, secondpoint-Y,
-firstpoint-group, secondpoint-group,
-Settings.RatThickness,
-NoFlags ())) != NULL)
- {
- AddObjectToCreateUndoList (RATLINE_TYPE, line, line, line);
- DrawRat (line, 0);
- changed = True;
- }
- }
+ if (havepoints == True)
+{
+if (funcp)
+ {
+ (*funcp) (firstpoint, secondpoint, subnet-Style);
+ }
+else
+ {
+ /* found the shortest distance subnet, draw the rat */
+ if ((line = CreateNewRat (PCB-Data,
+ firstpoint-X, firstpoint-Y,
+ secondpoint-X, secondpoint-Y,
+ firstpoint-group, secondpoint-group,
+ Settings.RatThickness,
+ NoFlags ())) != NULL)
+ {
+ AddObjectToCreateUndoList (RATLINE_TYPE, line, line, line);
+ DrawRat (line, 0);
+ changed = True;
+ }
+ }
- /* copy theSubnet into the current subnet */
- TransferNet (Netl, theSubnet, subnet);
-}
+/* copy theSubnet into the current subnet */
+TransferNet (Netl, theSubnet, subnet);
+ } /* if (havepoints == True) */
+} while (Netl-NetN 1 havepoints == True);
/* presently nothing to do with the new subnet */
/* so we throw it away and free the space */
FreeNetMemory (Netl-Net[--(Netl-NetN)]);
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Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 09:58 +, Seb James wrote: On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 10:41 -0700, Marc Moreau wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:51:45 + Seb James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ERROR: Duplicated reference U3501. I neglected to say one important thing about multiple parts... Each unit must have a unique refdes, but all the same. Okay.. Example... I call my parts U3163pwr U3163ioone U3163iotwo U3163adc Great! That's it! Ah, no, that's not it quite yet... I called my slotted parts U3501io and the power part U3501pwr. That means I have 4 U3501io symbols in my schematic and 1 U3501pwr. On the pcb layout, I get 2 footprints - one for U3501pwr and one for U3501io... I tried a step further, and called the io symbols: U3501ioone U3501iotwo U3501iothree U3501iofour And then I get 5 footprints on the diagram... Have I missed anything? Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
Ah, no, that's not it quite yet... I called my slotted parts U3501io and the power part U3501pwr. That means I have 4 U3501io symbols in my schematic and 1 U3501pwr. On the pcb layout, I get 2 footprints - one for U3501pwr and one for U3501io... I tried a step further, and called the io symbols: U3501ioone U3501iotwo U3501iothree U3501iofour And then I get 5 footprints on the diagram... Only put one footprint per refses, don't need one per symbol. Try putting all the one-time information in the pwr symbol, that way it will always be there, and if you don't need one or more of the io's all the footprint/copyright/documentation/foo attributes are still available. The only attributes needed for io's is 'slot'. Perhaps I should add a wiki article at www.geda.seul/wiki -Marc pgp47JLRi2i4I.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB non-feature... work-around?
I am doing only a two-layer board with three layers per group. In other words the preferences for layers looks something like this: grp 1 2 3 4 5 6 soldtrace x pwrgndsdx something x comptracex pwrgndcmp x somethincp x solder x component x Now, when I try to only see pwrgndsd, it turns off the entire group, kind of defeating the purpose of separating the layers, in my opinion. Thus soldtrace, pwrgndsd, something all turn off when any of them turn off, and all turn on when any one of them turns on. The same for the other three. Is there some way around this and still keep a two-layer board? My understanding, which may be wrong, is that if I move pwrgndsd to group 3, and somethingcp to group 4, that would create a 4 layer board? Is that understanding right? Regards, Kurt ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 08:06 -0700, Marc Moreau wrote: Ah, no, that's not it quite yet... I called my slotted parts U3501io and the power part U3501pwr. That means I have 4 U3501io symbols in my schematic and 1 U3501pwr. On the pcb layout, I get 2 footprints - one for U3501pwr and one for U3501io... I tried a step further, and called the io symbols: U3501ioone U3501iotwo U3501iothree U3501iofour And then I get 5 footprints on the diagram... Only put one footprint per refses, don't need one per symbol. Try putting all the one-time information in the pwr symbol, that way it will always be there, and if you don't need one or more of the io's all the footprint/copyright/documentation/foo attributes are still available. The only attributes needed for io's is 'slot'. Perhaps I should add a wiki article at www.geda.seul/wiki I volunteer to proof-read such an article. Things still don't quite work right here. If I call all the symbols U3501 then I see the correct number of components on my pcb layout, even though the design doesn't validate with gnetlist. If I name the symbols U3501io and U3501pwr, then I get two components on my layout instead of one, but the design validates through gnetlist. It looks like the pcb program doesn't think U3501io is the same as U3501pwr - it thinks they are two different components. Except that when pcb reads in the netlist, it correctly understands that U3501pwr == U3501io == U3501.. Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB non-feature... work-around?
Now, when I try to only see pwrgndsd, it turns off the entire group, kind of defeating the purpose of separating the layers, in my opinion. Intentional. The purpose of the grouping is to color the signals differently. Have you tried the check polygons setting? It might do what you really want. Thus soldtrace, pwrgndsd, something all turn off when any of them turn off, and all turn on when any one of them turns on. The same for the other three. Is there some way around this and still keep a two-layer board? What I do is re-group them as individual layers, do my editing, then group them back. My understanding, which may be wrong, is that if I move pwrgndsd to group 3, and somethingcp to group 4, that would create a 4 layer board? Is that understanding right? Yes, maybe. What makes it a 4 layer board in reality is telling the fab I want a four layer board, here's the gerbers :-) You can do whatever you want as long as you re-group them as two groups before exporting it to gerber. The exporters assume one physical layer per group. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
Hmm... I jsut tried it again, and sure enough. it doesn't work exactly as I described... I'll take a look at it tonight and get back to ya. -Marc On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:51:01 + Seb James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 08:06 -0700, Marc Moreau wrote: Ah, no, that's not it quite yet... I called my slotted parts U3501io and the power part U3501pwr. That means I have 4 U3501io symbols in my schematic and 1 U3501pwr. On the pcb layout, I get 2 footprints - one for U3501pwr and one for U3501io... I tried a step further, and called the io symbols: U3501ioone U3501iotwo U3501iothree U3501iofour And then I get 5 footprints on the diagram... Only put one footprint per refses, don't need one per symbol. Try putting all the one-time information in the pwr symbol, that way it will always be there, and if you don't need one or more of the io's all the footprint/copyright/documentation/foo attributes are still available. The only attributes needed for io's is 'slot'. Perhaps I should add a wiki article at www.geda.seul/wiki I volunteer to proof-read such an article. Things still don't quite work right here. If I call all the symbols U3501 then I see the correct number of components on my pcb layout, even though the design doesn't validate with gnetlist. If I name the symbols U3501io and U3501pwr, then I get two components on my layout instead of one, but the design validates through gnetlist. It looks like the pcb program doesn't think U3501io is the same as U3501pwr - it thinks they are two different components. Except that when pcb reads in the netlist, it correctly understands that U3501pwr == U3501io == U3501.. Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user pgpWBMAbxhfuL.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
How can I create gEDA symbols for unsupported parts ?? U, you draw them using the symbol editor? Usually, I start with a symbol similar to the one I want. I place it on the schematic, select it, do right mouse - down symbol, and this places me in a mode where I can edit the symbol. Make sure to turn on all invisible attributes. Then edit away. Use pinout info from the part's datasheet. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:18:02 -0400 Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I create gEDA symbols for unsupported parts ?? Hi Felipe. If you mean symbols for gschem, check this: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gschem If you mean footprints for PCB: http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/ http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb_tips John (Maybe useful - in Spanish: http://jcoppens.com/soft/howto/geda-spice/part3.php) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
Here's some documentation about drawing symbols: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scg On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Felipe Balbi wrote: How can I create gEDA symbols for unsupported parts ?? Thanks in advance -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
Hello all, Thanks to everybody... I'll start creating symbols for gEDA. I want to use some ATMEL processors in my designs and I didn't see them in gEDA's symbol database. As soon as I get them done, I'll send them to be added in the symbol database. Thanks a lot guys. BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? I'm wondering to develop something in this area, maybe some XML-like file and a symbol creation program.. What do you guys think about it ? On 3/6/07, Stuart Brorson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's some documentation about drawing symbols: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scg On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Felipe Balbi wrote: How can I create gEDA symbols for unsupported parts ?? Thanks in advance -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
I'll start creating symbols for gEDA. I want to use some ATMEL processors in my designs and I didn't see them in gEDA's symbol database. As soon as I get them done, I'll send them to be added in the symbol database. http://www.gedasymbols.org/scripts/search.cgi?key=atmel http://www.gedasymbols.org/ BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? I have a sym2eps tool here: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/ There's a djboxsym there too, which is a symbol creation helper. I'm wondering to develop something in this area, maybe some XML-like file and a symbol creation program.. What do you guys think about it ? First, there's a bunch of existing symbol-maker helpers out there, so make sure you're not doing something that's already been done. Second, if it hasn't been done, don't let all those other helpers stop you from making another one. It seems to be a competition to see how many different helpers we can come up with :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 01:56:48PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Second, if it hasn't been done, don't let all those other helpers stop you from making another one. It seems to be a competition to see how many different helpers we can come up with :-) You just take your initials and add 'boxsym' to the end! By the way, I'd recommend that new boxsym hackers take a look at bjjboxsym. I tried to generalize the internals a bit. You can do things like draw symbol objects in transformed coordinate spaces. The idea was to be able to plug in layout classes that would do whatever you want. -- Ben Jackson AD7GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
I'll echo DJ's comment: First take a look around to see what's already out there w.r.t. symbol creation utilties. You may be able to use or modify one of them instead of writing your own. BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? Both .sym and .sch files are read by functions in the libgeda/src directory. In particular, look at f_read.c and at a_basic.c:o_read(). Stuart On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Felipe Balbi wrote: Hello all, Thanks to everybody... I'll start creating symbols for gEDA. I want to use some ATMEL processors in my designs and I didn't see them in gEDA's symbol database. As soon as I get them done, I'll send them to be added in the symbol database. Thanks a lot guys. BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? I'm wondering to develop something in this area, maybe some XML-like file and a symbol creation program.. What do you guys think about it ? On 3/6/07, Stuart Brorson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's some documentation about drawing symbols: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scg On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Felipe Balbi wrote: How can I create gEDA symbols for unsupported parts ?? Thanks in advance -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
Hello Dj, http://www.gedasymbols.org/scripts/search.cgi?key=atmel there's already lots of ATMEL chips there... I'll modify one of them to add my AT91SAM9261 and send to geda-symbol maintainers. BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? I have a sym2eps tool here: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/ There's a djboxsym there too, which is a symbol creation helper. I'm wondering to develop something in this area, maybe some XML-like file and a symbol creation program.. What do you guys think about it ? First, there's a bunch of existing symbol-maker helpers out there, so make sure you're not doing something that's already been done. Second, if it hasn't been done, don't let all those other helpers stop you from making another one. It seems to be a competition to see how many different helpers we can come up with :-) Actually I was thinking about gschem source code itself... where is the code that it parses the .sym files... where is the .sym language defined... Maybe an XML-like file would be a lot easier to understand. And, also, a lot easier to write part generators. I'll check that on geda-dev list. ;-) -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
Hello Stuart, On 3/6/07, Stuart Brorson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll echo DJ's comment: First take a look around to see what's already out there w.r.t. symbol creation utilties. You may be able to use or modify one of them instead of writing your own. BTW, does anybody here know where are the code portion that reads the .sym files and shows the symbol itself ? Both .sym and .sch files are read by functions in the libgeda/src directory. In particular, look at f_read.c and at a_basic.c:o_read(). Thanks a lot for you comments, that's what I was looking for :-) -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: gEDA Symbols
Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Thanks to everybody... I'll start creating symbols for gEDA. I want to use some ATMEL processors in my designs and I didn't see them in gEDA's symbol database. As soon as I get them done, I'll send them to be added in the symbol database. Which Atmel? I have symbol for ATMEGA8 and 16. Tell me if you want it. -- Levente http://web.interware.hu/lekovacs ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols
Actually I was thinking about gschem source code itself... where is the code that it parses the .sym files... where is the .sym language defined... http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec Maybe an XML-like file would be a lot easier to understand. And, also, a lot easier to write part generators. This is flame-bait. :-) We've discussed XML file formats several times in the past. There are lots of reasons to *not* use XML. Google will help you find them. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: gEDA Symbols
AT91SAM9261 On 3/6/07, Levente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Thanks to everybody... I'll start creating symbols for gEDA. I want to use some ATMEL processors in my designs and I didn't see them in gEDA's symbol database. As soon as I get them done, I'll send them to be added in the symbol database. Which Atmel? I have symbol for ATMEGA8 and 16. Tell me if you want it. -- Levente http://web.interware.hu/lekovacs ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Best Regards, Felipe Balbi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
OKay... After some poking around, I found this... I have been able to verify, but IIRC, we used to be able to have U1a, U1b etc for different slots within the same device. Trying that anew today. It doesn't work. Netlist doesn't recognize them as the same, and neither does PCB. I think something changed. Can someone verify that I am remembering correctly. PCB version 20070208 gschem,gsch2pcb from geda-20061020 -Marc On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:04:19 -0700 Marc Moreau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm... I jsut tried it again, and sure enough. it doesn't work exactly as I described... I'll take a look at it tonight and get back to ya. -Marc On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:51:01 + Seb James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 08:06 -0700, Marc Moreau wrote: Ah, no, that's not it quite yet... I called my slotted parts U3501io and the power part U3501pwr. That means I have 4 U3501io symbols in my schematic and 1 U3501pwr. On the pcb layout, I get 2 footprints - one for U3501pwr and one for U3501io... I tried a step further, and called the io symbols: U3501ioone U3501iotwo U3501iothree U3501iofour And then I get 5 footprints on the diagram... Only put one footprint per refses, don't need one per symbol. Try putting all the one-time information in the pwr symbol, that way it will always be there, and if you don't need one or more of the io's all the footprint/copyright/documentation/foo attributes are still available. The only attributes needed for io's is 'slot'. Perhaps I should add a wiki article at www.geda.seul/wiki I volunteer to proof-read such an article. Things still don't quite work right here. If I call all the symbols U3501 then I see the correct number of components on my pcb layout, even though the design doesn't validate with gnetlist. If I name the symbols U3501io and U3501pwr, then I get two components on my layout instead of one, but the design validates through gnetlist. It looks like the pcb program doesn't think U3501io is the same as U3501pwr - it thinks they are two different components. Except that when pcb reads in the netlist, it correctly understands that U3501pwr == U3501io == U3501.. Seb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user pgpAAZ1Q7snHN.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA?
And i do a question, is gEDA an proper software to use during the formation academical process? I think yes that, this can be used for that. What do you think about? A bit late to reply to this, but ... We used gEDA in our Engineering course here at Durham University (UK) School of Engineering for the first time this year. We previously used Orcad for teaching purposes. Since I don't use Windows myself this wasn't an option for me personally so I had already been using gEDA. When it came to buying a load more Orcad licenses to support a new ECAD course I decided instead to switch to gEDA because (in no particular order) 1. it seems to give us pretty well everything we need 2. the licensing allows students and staff to have their own copies 3. well documented text file formats are used 4. it's open source 5. it's well supported (eg here) These all seem to me good reasons for getting students to use it. In addition, I think the fact that parts of the process involve using a command line interface makes for a good learning experience for students who are too used to clicking without thinking. We set a very simple assignment for our students to get some experience of the schematic entry/simulation/pcb design process, adapted from the earlier Orcad exercise. If you're interested to see what we did take a look at http://www.dur.ac.uk/peter.baxendale/stuff/gEDA/assignment_desc.pdf . It's limited because it's a short course, the electronics had to be simple because of the level these students were at, and it had to use components I could find spice models for. I think if you use Linux machines for teaching there's no reason at all not to use gEDA. Unfortunately, here all our teaching machines currently run Windows only, so we use a rather old Windows distribution which is not entirely satisfactory. Also, I found that students wanting to use it on their own machines were put off by the relatively complicated installation, including having to install Cygwin first (that is, for the majority of students who only use Windows). When I get the time I want to find better solutions. Native Windows versions of gschem and pcb with an installer would be attractive to the students, but it doesn't seem easy to build these out of the box. I'd like to encourage more to use gEDA, and unfortunately that means getting my hands dirty with Windows. All things considered, it's been pretty successful and I intend to stick with it for next year. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: nets in symbols
On 3/6/07, Marc Moreau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OKay... After some poking around, I found this... I have been able to verify, but IIRC, we used to be able to have U1a, U1b etc for different slots within the same device. Trying that anew today. It doesn't work. Netlist doesn't recognize them as the same, and neither does PCB. I think something changed. Can someone verify that I am remembering correctly. You are remembering correctly. From the PCB documentation --- If a NAME ends with a lower-case letter, all lower-case letters are stripped from the end of the NAME to determine the matching layout-name name. For example: Data U1-3 U2abc-4 FLOP1a-7 Uabc3-A9 specifies that the net called Data should have pin 3 of U1 connected to pin 4 of U2, to pin 7 of FLOP1 and to pin A9 of Uabc3. Note that element name and pin number strings are case-sensitive. It is up to you to name the elements so that their layout-name names agrees with the netlist. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA?
Peter Baxendale wrote: majority of students who only use Windows). When I get the time I want to find better solutions. Native Windows versions of gschem and pcb with an installer would be attractive to the students, but it doesn't seem easy to build these out of the box. I'd like to encourage more to use gEDA, and unfortunately that means getting my hands dirty with Windows. For PCB it is pretty much there. I've found a couple of little things which need fixing and I hope to do that soon. I thought we were all the way there with the last snapshot, but afterwards I found some minor bugs. I probably would have fixed them before the snapshot by my wifes pc had a hardware problem followed by XP flaking out on us. My computers do not run windows (they're not even the right hardware platform for it). -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA?
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 18:52, Peter Baxendale wrote: I think if you use Linux machines for teaching there's no reason at all not to use gEDA. Unfortunately, here all our teaching machines currently run Windows only, so we use a rather old Windows distribution which is not entirely satisfactory. How about setting up a server, with remote X display on the windows boxes? Also, I found that students wanting to use it on their own machines were put off by the relatively complicated installation, including having to install Cygwin first (that is, for the majority of students who only use Windows). They need to learn to deal with more than one system. Faculty need to learn this too. They need to learn it early. They can't run commercial windows software at home because of cost and licensing. If you run all windows stuff, they need to come into the lab for work that should not take lab time. If you run free software on a server, they might be able to access the server remotely. They might need to come into the lab as they would need to for windows. The real benefit is that if they want to run it at home, they are only blocked by their own unwillingness to do it. When I get the time I want to find better solutions. Native Windows versions of gschem and pcb with an installer would be attractive to the students, but it doesn't seem easy to build these out of the box. I'd like to encourage more to use gEDA, and unfortunately that means getting my hands dirty with Windows. Let those who use only windows come into the lab to use the software. Reward those who care with everything they need at home. Windows has its market position only because people believe everything runs there. Everything runs there only by force. Students need to learn that there is more than one way, and that claim of everything and everyone runs windows is false. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA?
al davis wrote: On Tuesday 06 March 2007 18:52, Peter Baxendale wrote: I think if you use Linux machines for teaching there's no reason at all not to use gEDA. Unfortunately, here all our teaching machines currently run Windows only, so we use a rather old Windows distribution which is not entirely satisfactory. How about setting up a server, with remote X display on the windows boxes? Also, I found that students wanting to use it on their own machines were put off by the relatively complicated installation, including having to install Cygwin first (that is, for the majority of students who only use Windows). They need to learn to deal with more than one system. Faculty need to learn this too. They need to learn it early. and at the risk of sounding like a broken record a gui only environment just does not cut it as far as I'm concerned for lots of real world work. Being literate in the use of unix like operating systems can be a huge benefit. Jim Williams wrote an app note many years back that had a pair of photos. I can't seem to place my hands on it so I hope I haven't misquoted him too much. In the first photo there is a computer on a very neat table with a vase full of flowers and maybe a glass of wine. The caption reads something along the lines of the cad companies would like you to think circuit design is neatly captured with their tools and the second picture shows an old vacuum tube based tektronix scope with a giant mass of wires in front of it hooked up to all 4 channels and some empty pizza boxes on top. The caption here reads something like in the real world other approaches are often required. I guess my version of that would be a GUI-only CAD flow in a GUI-only desktop environment in the first photo and the second photo having little snippets of shell scripts, awk scripts, a perl script or two and an emacs window. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:04:43 -0500 Dan McMahill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [cut] the second photo having little snippets of shell scripts, awk scripts, a perl script or two and an emacs window. *cough* vim *ahem* Sorry.. Couldn't resist. /me dawns the flame suit -Marc pgp93CfgFcTG5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
the second photo having little snippets of shell scripts, awk scripts, a perl script or two and an emacs window. *cough* vim *ahem* In real life, you have several of each :-P ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 22:45, Marc Moreau wrote: *cough* vim *ahem* Sorry.. Couldn't resist. /me dawns the flame suit Regardless of preference, at some time everyone will be confronted with something else. Whether you like it or not, it is important to be able to cope with it. I have yet to meet anyone skilled at unix that cannot cope with MS-windows when the need arises. When I see a school that is all-MS, and graduates that know only MS ... I assume they cannot cope with anything else. Usually that assumption is true. I assume such narrowness prevails in all that they do. I would go even farther on this ...Even if stuck with windoze .. sometimes you still need to work with text files. The unix hack digs in and solves the problem. The windows user says I can't and they call in someone else to solve the problem. When I am interviewing job applicants, this is the kind of thing I look for. As a teacher, try to emphasize this, even in the tests. The highest grades go to those who can dig in and solve strange problems. I don't care about memorizing formulas. I have gotten both praise and complaints for this policy. A couple years ago, despite pressure from other faculty, I used gnucap in class, with mixed results. Within a year later, two of the students came back (separately, without knowledge of each other) to tell me how much it helped them in a job interview. I have seen things like this over and over. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
al davis wrote: Regardless of preference, at some time everyone will be confronted with something else. Whether you like it or not, it is important to be able to cope with it. Gee... in the old days, that was simply assumed. Let's see... My career as measured by operating systems on which I have developed code, in rough chronological order (naked metal systems not included :) OS/360 MFT OS/360 MVT VAX/VMS Apple II DOS NOS/BE NOS/VE Scope Kronos Star OS Cyber-18 OS OS-1100 More VAX/VMS Unix Macintosh OS (the oold one) Another Unix A different Unix Yet two more different Unix systems at the same time, requiring a portable code base Windows Unix again Linux Windows again, and I swear for the last time and never again because life it too short Linux Mac OS X (but so far only for the BSD part that you find under the hood, and only a few trivial things -- this hardly counts, I do mostly Linux work today.) As a teacher, try to emphasize this, even in the tests. The highest grades go to those who can dig in and solve strange problems. Absolutely. As a hiring manager, I'm only interested in people who can tackle difficult, unsolved problems with whatever tools happen to be available. It's that over, around, or through mentality that makes a good engineer. -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: thermal vias in pcb
What is the easiest way to create thermal vias? Not a via with a thermal relief -- I can do that :) .. but a via with no thermal relief punched into polygons on both sides of the board that ends up getting filled with solder to help create a large thermal mass to be used as a heat sink. The application I am targeting is surface mount motor control and voltage regulator IC's. So, a typical part will have a large bottom contact that is to be connected to large pad in the footprint. Then, on the front and the back, as convenient, there are polygons that are also part of the ground plane, the top one overlaps and contacts the footprint pad. Now, the trick: there is a field of small holes drilled into the polygons, with *no* thermal reliefs. Drill size is chosen such that the vias wick up lots of solder and you end up with a nice metal mass. See Freescale Ap-Note AN4005. So, anyway, should I specify some kind of pin with clearance smaller than the pad? How can I keep pcb's DRC from whining? I'm sure the answer is simple but I'm not sure how to approach it. TIA, dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: thermal vias in pcb
I use a number of parts with backside thermal pads. Draw the rectangle as you describe to comfortably surround the vias. Then with the mouse over the rectangle hit 's'. This will flood the thermal reliefs on the vias. If you want to ever de-solder the part from the back, make sure the pad on the opposite side has the solder resist cleared. Joe T On 3/6/07, Dave N6NZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the easiest way to create thermal vias? Not a via with a thermal relief -- I can do that :) .. but a via with no thermal relief punched into polygons on both sides of the board that ends up getting filled with solder to help create a large thermal mass to be used as a heat sink. The application I am targeting is surface mount motor control and voltage regulator IC's. So, a typical part will have a large bottom contact that is to be connected to large pad in the footprint. Then, on the front and the back, as convenient, there are polygons that are also part of the ground plane, the top one overlaps and contacts the footprint pad. Now, the trick: there is a field of small holes drilled into the polygons, with *no* thermal reliefs. Drill size is chosen such that the vias wick up lots of solder and you end up with a nice metal mass. See Freescale Ap-Note AN4005. So, anyway, should I specify some kind of pin with clearance smaller than the pad? How can I keep pcb's DRC from whining? I'm sure the answer is simple but I'm not sure how to approach it. TIA, dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
Hi Al and all, In my line of work (steel industry) it's a bit more harsh: If you don't solve the first problem, you won't be given another problem to solve. To find a method is one thing, to get the correct result is another one. One problem to solve, twenty possible solutions, and then sort the best one out of those ... Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens al davis Verzonden: woensdag 7 maart 2007 5:34 Aan: geda-user@moria.seul.org Onderwerp: Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT] On Tuesday 06 March 2007 22:45, Marc Moreau wrote: *cough* vim *ahem* Sorry.. Couldn't resist. /me dawns the flame suit Regardless of preference, at some time everyone will be confronted with something else. Whether you like it or not, it is important to be able to cope with it. I have yet to meet anyone skilled at unix that cannot cope with MS-windows when the need arises. When I see a school that is all-MS, and graduates that know only MS ... I assume they cannot cope with anything else. Usually that assumption is true. I assume such narrowness prevails in all that they do. I would go even farther on this ...Even if stuck with windoze .. sometimes you still need to work with text files. The unix hack digs in and solves the problem. The windows user says I can't and they call in someone else to solve the problem. When I am interviewing job applicants, this is the kind of thing I look for. As a teacher, try to emphasize this, even in the tests. The highest grades go to those who can dig in and solve strange problems. I don't care about memorizing formulas. I have gotten both praise and complaints for this policy. A couple years ago, despite pressure from other faculty, I used gnucap in class, with mixed results. Within a year later, two of the students came back (separately, without knowledge of each other) to tell me how much it helped them in a job interview. I have seen things like this over and over. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
On 3/7/07, Dave N6NZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: al davis wrote: As a teacher, try to emphasize this, even in the tests. The highest grades go to those who can dig in and solve strange problems. Absolutely. As a hiring manager, I'm only interested in people who can tackle difficult, unsolved problems with whatever tools happen to be available. It's that over, around, or through mentality that makes a good engineer. As an engineer I try to work around the problems that arise when somebody, that is mostly a sysop, think he knows more than me just because he is the sysop and have the root password. I think that every engineer should shout out loud when his favourite tool is not installed on the system. tackle difficult, unsolved problems with whatever tools happen to be available is a reality show scenario for entertainment on TV. For real day-to-day work the engineer should be able to decide himself what tool he wants to use. Emacs, vim, nedit or whatever should always be installed on the system in the newest version. KDE, Gnome, fvwm etc. should be possible to change with the edit of an environmental variable in the login shell control file. If a package of whatever is missing on the system, it should be enough to run a command to have it installed. But that is the ideal world. With linux and open source this should be possible, but it is still a long way to go. -- Svenn ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why use gEDA? [OT]
On Mar 6, 2007, at 11:34 PM, al davis wrote: I would go even farther on this ...Even if stuck with windoze .. sometimes you still need to work with text files. The unix hack digs in and solves the problem. The windows user says I can't and they call in someone else to solve the problem. I've explained this to people before, and nobody seems to get it. It's not a matter of the use of Windows causing the inability to think properly...the inability to think properly causes the use of Windows. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
