Re: gEDA-user: C++ (was Re: interesting links)
On Friday 31 August 2007 05:09:23 Steve Meier wrote: hmmm so taking queesh to the next pot luck geda code sprint is safe? Do you mean quiche? Peter P.S. Mmmm, quiche... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: C++ (was Re: interesting links)
On 8/30/07, Dave McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:26 PM, Timothy Normand Miller wrote: I'm no longer obsessed with maximizing performance of the machine. Now, I want to maximize my performance as a programmer. Be very, very careful with that attitude. Back in the 1970s, some blithering idiot came up with the idea that programmer time is more important than processor time. This has given rise to things like Windows, which takes hundreds of megabytes of RAM and multi-GHz processors to do even the very simplest of things. That moron back in the 1970s (whoever it was) should be put up against a wall and shot. Well, don't misinterpret me. I still like to write tight, efficient code. And in fact, Ruby makes that easier, I believe. If you were to rewrite that same code in C++, it would be faster and not require the Ruby runtime environment. But it would take a heck of a lot longer to code and be much more difficult to modify. (Or course, if everything were writtn in Ruby, the VM memory overhead would amortize out.) I took a computational linguistics class last Spring quarter, and I decided to do the class project (an Earley parser) in Ruby. A direct port of the Java program to Ruby was remarkably slower. However a bit of profiling and some other clever optimizations later (not all mine--another student was using Ruby too and shared some ideas), and I was beating the best time of any Java program by an order of magnitude. Ok, so sure, I spent extra time working on it, but that's okay, because it was FUN. :) The lesson: Profilers are your friends. -- Timothy Normand Miller http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~millerti Open Graphics Project ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: C++ (was Re: interesting links)
DJ Delorie wrote: We're going to need to bump pcb's resolution up again. Steve Meier wrote: I have serious reasons to think so. Whats the smallest thing people have had to deal with so far then ? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: C++ (was Re: interesting links)
Whats the smallest thing people have had to deal with so far then ? I've done 01005 caps, which are 8 mils by 16 mils. PCB had no problem with those. I've also done 0.4mm pitch VSSOPs, which is about an 8 mil wide pad. I've not gone below 6 mil line/space rules though. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
I went with Sierra this time, to try them (and their new 4-layer pricing scheme) out. They use standard 6/6/15 rules, compatible with pcb-pool and 4pcb, other vendors I've used. My initial impression is that the quality is quite good, almost as good as 4pcb. The drills were within a mil or so, but the mask was off by 3-4 mil, just enough to barely overlap the copper. 4pcb's mask was off a little too, but not quite enough to overlap the copper. It's close enough to be statistically about the same. Here's a 15 mil drill with 7.5 mil annulus, 3 mil gap-to-mask, and an 8 mil line: http://www.delorie.com/tmp/spe.html One other drawback was that they don't accept a separate outline gerber; I had to modify pcb to draw the outline on the solder mask gerber. They were, however, slightly cheaper. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 01:23:48PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: One other drawback was that they don't accept a separate outline gerber; I had to modify pcb to draw the outline on the solder mask gerber. I'll take that patch. :) -- Ben Jackson AD7GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Surface mount LEDs
Hello gEDA/PCB users, I'm looking for some surface mount LEDs, specifically a 1206-sized (or thereabouts) green LED and a 1210-sized (or thereabouts) bicolor red/green LED, both shining upward from the PCB (i.e., not right angle). Would prefer for the two to be somewhat matched, i.e., from the same family. I wonder, would anyone here have a part they can recommend? I.e., one for which there is: a) a good PCB footprint; b) a part number orderable from somewhere; c) an indication of which side is the anode and which is the cathode; d) for the bicolor LED, knowledge of which one is red and which one is green. I want to connect the green one to the DSR modem control signal and the red one to an error signal on my SDSL board, so I'd like to know which is which by some way other than connecting it randomly on the PCB, firing it up and observing the color. TIA, MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
The first two chunks have to do with when pins are drawn; we don't
want them on outline layers for example. The last chunk is the one
that adds the outline to the mask. I'm not sure what to do with it,
as I don't think it should be the default.
Index: draw.c
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pcb/pcb/src/draw.c,v
retrieving revision 1.79
diff -p -U3 -b -w -r1.79 draw.c
--- draw.c 6 Aug 2007 02:18:30 - 1.79
+++ draw.c 31 Aug 2007 18:34:07 -
@@ -458,7 +458,6 @@ DrawEverything (BoxTypePtr drawn_area)
pad_callback, NULL);
}
SWAP_IDENT = save_swap;
- }
if (!gui-gui)
{
@@ -471,6 +470,7 @@ DrawEverything (BoxTypePtr drawn_area)
}
}
}
+}
if (TEST_FLAG (CHECKPLANESFLAG, PCB) gui-gui)
return;
@@ -749,6 +749,7 @@ DrawMask (BoxType * screen)
{
struct pin_info info;
int thin = TEST_FLAG(THINDRAWFLAG, PCB) || TEST_FLAG(THINDRAWPOLYFLAG, PCB);
+ int i;
OutputType *out = Output;
@@ -783,6 +784,16 @@ DrawMask (BoxType * screen)
}
gui-use_mask (HID_MASK_OFF);
}
+
+ if (!gui-gui)
+{
+ for (i=PCB-Data-LayerN; i=0; i--)
+ {
+ LayerTypePtr Layer = PCB-Data-Layer + i;
+ if (strcmp (Layer-Name, outline) ==0)
+ DrawLayer (Layer, screen);
+ }
+}
}
static int
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Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 14:35 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
The first two chunks have to do with when pins are drawn; we don't
want them on outline layers for example.
I've had to hack around this one before... good to see a proper patch -
and sorry I didn't produce one myself!
The last chunk is the one
that adds the outline to the mask. I'm not sure what to do with it,
as I don't think it should be the default.
Probably not.
I may be being dumb - why is there a:
if (!gui-gui)
test around that code? Is that so it only appears in the output? (Do you
have to run PCB in batch mode for that test to work, or do the exporters
all get called with gui-gui = 0 ?
Regards,
Peter C.
Index: draw.c
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pcb/pcb/src/draw.c,v
retrieving revision 1.79
diff -p -U3 -b -w -r1.79 draw.c
--- draw.c6 Aug 2007 02:18:30 - 1.79
+++ draw.c31 Aug 2007 18:34:07 -
@@ -458,7 +458,6 @@ DrawEverything (BoxTypePtr drawn_area)
pad_callback, NULL);
}
SWAP_IDENT = save_swap;
- }
if (!gui-gui)
{
@@ -471,6 +470,7 @@ DrawEverything (BoxTypePtr drawn_area)
}
}
}
+}
if (TEST_FLAG (CHECKPLANESFLAG, PCB) gui-gui)
return;
@@ -749,6 +749,7 @@ DrawMask (BoxType * screen)
{
struct pin_info info;
int thin = TEST_FLAG(THINDRAWFLAG, PCB) || TEST_FLAG(THINDRAWPOLYFLAG,
PCB);
+ int i;
OutputType *out = Output;
@@ -783,6 +784,16 @@ DrawMask (BoxType * screen)
}
gui-use_mask (HID_MASK_OFF);
}
+
+ if (!gui-gui)
+{
+ for (i=PCB-Data-LayerN; i=0; i--)
+ {
+ LayerTypePtr Layer = PCB-Data-Layer + i;
+ if (strcmp (Layer-Name, outline) ==0)
+ DrawLayer (Layer, screen);
+ }
+}
}
static int
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Re: gEDA-user: Surface mount LEDs
Michael - On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 06:30:52PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: I'm looking for some surface mount LEDs, specifically a 1206-sized (or thereabouts) green LED and a 1210-sized (or thereabouts) bicolor red/green LED, both shining upward from the PCB (i.e., not right angle). I can't address the bi-color LED half of the question. I have some experience with green upward-facing 1206, 0805, and 0603 LEDs from Digi-Key. There's a lot of variation in their brightness. I finally settled on a 1206 Lumex SML-LX1206GC-TR, Digi-Key part 67-1357-1-ND. $0.14 in 10's, plenty in stock. They are a little delicate to solder, and the direction marks are just barely usable. But nice and bright (clearly visible outdoors) at 2.0 V / 8 ma, and reliable once you know what you're doing. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
I may be being dumb - why is there a: if (!gui-gui) test around that code? Is that so it only appears in the output? (Do you have to run PCB in batch mode for that test to work, or do the exporters all get called with gui-gui = 0 ? That tests if the HID it's sending to is the GUI or not. So, we don't draw those lines on the screen, but we do for postscript, gerber, etc. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Cool, I look forward to seeing your alarm clock. On Aug 31, 2007, at 10:23 AM, DJ Delorie wrote: One other drawback was that they don't accept a separate outline gerber; I had to modify pcb to draw the outline on the solder mask gerber. They were, however, slightly cheaper. I have been sending them boards for ages. full service and no- touch. Outlines were always accepted on the fab gerber (the one with the drill sizes and what not.) Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Surface mount LEDs
I've been using 0805 LiteON LTST-S220xxx parts, DigiKey 160-1220-1-ND in red/org, 160-1218-1-ND in green, other colors available. I like these because they have very wide angle viewing -- full 180 degrees pretty much. I don't think there is a bi-color part in the LTST-S220 family, though. Don't sweat the footprint issue -- use DJ's on line two-pad generator. It's pretty easy to stamp out two-pad footprints that way. Just remember to add comments as to how you got your footprint. While I'm mentioning it... I'll gamble that DJ is actually reading this and make an enhancement request: It would be nice if the generated footprint aways included comments with my original input in the generated symbol, so I could remember how I get there... something like the comments I enter manually: Element[ 0603 1.6mm x 0.8mm, 0.3mm terminal 0 0 0 0 0 100 ] ( # Generated 13-June-2007 gedasymbols.org two pad footprint generator # C = 8 mil # M = 6 mil # PL = 2.0mm # PT = 0.5mm # PW = 1.0mm # SO = 8 mil # SW = 10 mil Pad[-2953 984 -2953 -984 1968 1600 3168 1 1 square] Pad[2953 984 2953 -984 1968 1600 3168 2 2 square] ElementLine[-3937 -3268 5237 -3268 1000] ElementLine[-3937 3268 5237 3268 1000] ElementLine[5237 -3268 5237 3268 1000] ElementLine[-5237 -1968 -5237 1968 1000] ElementArc[-3937 -1968 1300 1300 0 -90 1000] ElementArc[-3937 1968 1300 1300 0 90 1000] ) -dave Michael Sokolov wrote: Hello gEDA/PCB users, I'm looking for some surface mount LEDs, specifically a 1206-sized (or thereabouts) green LED and a 1210-sized (or thereabouts) bicolor red/green LED, both shining upward from the PCB (i.e., not right angle). Would prefer for the two to be somewhat matched, i.e., from the same family. I wonder, would anyone here have a part they can recommend? I.e., one for which there is: a) a good PCB footprint; b) a part number orderable from somewhere; c) an indication of which side is the anode and which is the cathode; d) for the bicolor LED, knowledge of which one is red and which one is green. I want to connect the green one to the DSR modem control signal and the red one to an error signal on my SDSL board, so I'd like to know which is which by some way other than connecting it randomly on the PCB, firing it up and observing the color. TIA, MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: C++ (was Re: interesting links)
flipchip 48 balls at a 5 mill pitch Steve Meier On Fri, 2007-08-31 at 12:54 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: Whats the smallest thing people have had to deal with so far then ? I've done 01005 caps, which are 8 mils by 16 mils. PCB had no problem with those. I've also done 0.4mm pitch VSSOPs, which is about an 8 mil wide pad. I've not gone below 6 mil line/space rules though. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Cool, I look forward to seeing your alarm clock. Me too ;-) I have been sending them boards for ages. full service and no- touch. Outlines were always accepted on the fab gerber (the one with the drill sizes and what not.) Sierra? They didn't have an option for a fab - the only leftover slot I had was other file. I know 4pcb supports a fab, I've used that before (they helped me design it :). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Surface mount LEDs
Yeah, I'm reading :-) I'll add it to my very long list of things to do. Or you can send me a patch (check out the gedasymbols cvs tree). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Surface mount LEDs
Hi, On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:30:52 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sokolov) wrote: Hello gEDA/PCB users, I'm looking for some surface mount LEDs, specifically a 1206-sized (or thereabouts) green LED and a 1210-sized (or thereabouts) bicolor red/green LED, both shining upward from the PCB (i.e., not right angle). Would prefer for the two to be somewhat matched, i.e., from the same family. For the bi-color led I can recommend the Harvatek HT-155 series and also the Fairchild QTLP650C-24 of which I suspect the former is a cheap Taiwanese knock-off. Attached is a footprint for this 1210 type of led. Kind regards, Hans http://www.harvatek.com.tw/05_our_products/HT-155%20Series.pdf I wonder, would anyone here have a part they can recommend? I.e., one for which there is: a) a good PCB footprint; b) a part number orderable from somewhere; c) an indication of which side is the anode and which is the cathode; d) for the bicolor LED, knowledge of which one is red and which one is green. I want to connect the green one to the DSR modem control signal and the red one to an error signal on my SDSL board, so I'd like to know which is which by some way other than connecting it randomly on the PCB, firing it up and observing the color. TIA, MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- $ cat .sig /dev/null HT-155 Description: Binary data ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
On Aug 31, 2007, at 3:50 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: Cool, I look forward to seeing your alarm clock. Me too ;-) I have been sending them boards for ages. full service and no- touch. Outlines were always accepted on the fab gerber (the one with the drill sizes and what not.) Sierra? They didn't have an option for a fab - the only leftover slot I had was other file. I know 4pcb supports a fab, I've used that before (they helped me design it :). Ahhh, i see, i forgot they were boasting a new method for design entry call them up and let them know.. I have had good luck working with them about problems. especially if they goofed up my boards. once they combined two planes, don't know why but it did When I let them know they sent me replacement boards in about two days. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Ahhh, i see, i forgot they were boasting a new method for design entry Yup, no touch. I suspect if I called them, I wouldn't get the cheap price. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Hi, On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:23:48 -0400 DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip One other drawback was that they don't accept a separate outline gerber; I had to modify pcb to draw the outline on the solder mask gerber. They were, however, slightly cheaper. On a slightly (un)related note: recently I did a board where I added some texts and lines to the silk layer and they were correctly exported to the silkscreen drawings but not exported to the assembly drawings in the postscript export. Is that intentional behaviour? I expected them to end up also on the assembly drawings. Kind regards, Hans ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- $ cat .sig /dev/null ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: printing, postscript and page size (under cygwin)
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:46:39 +0200 Duncan Drennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm experiencing the following, and not too sure where the problem lies. I'm running gschem under cygwin (stable 20070626). If I print and use the lpr command which is sending to the default printer, which in this case is PDF creator (this generates some error messages in PDF Creator along the way, but that is possibly another story). It seems to always scale the actual output page size to a Letter size. The schematic drawing looks scaled correctly (e.g. A4), but the page size of the PDF (File - Properties) is always a Letter size. If I follow the route of print to a file (.ps) and then convert to a PDF the scaling is correct, but the document is not searchable, which is really a requirement for me. I thought that there might be some setting that the lpr command is always outputting to a Letter page (in cygwin that is, not gschem). Any thoughts? Maybe your default printer settings are using Letter as a default paper size? Check start - Settings - Printers - your_pdf_printer and then wrestle through all the tabs in the settings pane searching for default paper size. I recall having had a problem like that in the past. HTH, Hans ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- $ cat .sig /dev/null ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:07:05 -0400 DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a slightly (un)related note: recently I did a board where I added some texts and lines to the silk layer and they were correctly exported to the silkscreen drawings but not exported to the assembly drawings in the postscript export. Is that intentional behaviour? I expected them to end up also on the assembly drawings. Currently, the assembly drawing exports the silk associated with elements, but not non-element silk. Change PrintAssembly() in src/draw.c if you want to add more stuff. See DrawEverything() for a sample call to DrawSilk(), although note that draws element silk also. Maybe what we need is a scriptable drawing control language? I think this is what eagle calls cam jobs. Then, each user can define each job type exactly the way they want. Wow, you're fast to reply :-). Ok, thanks, I'll look into that... actually I thought that PCB always had very nice defaults that PCB fabs accept in general. I have experience in a different package *couch PADS* with CAM jobs and I always find it a pain to set a proper one up that fills my needs. OTOH a CAM job manager which installs with sensible defaults would be very nice. Until that day a few extra checkboxes in the export dialogs would work too (i.e. for your issue to draw outlines on the soldermask). Kind regards, Hans ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- $ cat .sig /dev/null ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Wow, you're fast to reply :-). Yeah, they chain me to this keyboard and make me type for food. actually I thought that PCB always had very nice defaults that PCB fabs accept in general. I have experience in a different package *couch PADS* with CAM jobs and I always find it a pain to set a proper one up that fills my needs. OTOH a CAM job manager which installs with sensible defaults would be very nice. Until that day a few extra checkboxes in the export dialogs would work too (i.e. for your issue to draw outlines on the soldermask). Our support for dialog boxes is a bit too general to expand much that way; the postscript one is already pretty big. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
Never got around to implement such a thing, but would it be an option? Depends on the patch you submit :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: alarm clock boards are in!
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:46:36 -0400 DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Never got around to implement such a thing, but would it be an option? Depends on the patch you submit :-) Okidokie... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- $ cat .sig /dev/null ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
