Re: gEDA-user: pcb-20070912
--- Dan McMahill wrote:
You should be nervous.
Yes, I am. BTW,
Index: parse_y.y
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pcb/pcb/src/parse_y.y,v
retrieving revision 1.40
diff -U1 -b -r1.40 parse_y.y
--- parse_y.y 21 Apr 2007 21:21:55 - 1.40
+++ parse_y.y 17 Sep 2007 06:01:10 -
@@ -1018,3 +1018,3 @@
{
- CreateNewArcOnLayer(Layer, $3*100, $4*100,
$4*100, $5*100, $9, $10,
+ CreateNewArcOnLayer(Layer, $3*100, $4*100,
$5*100, $5*100, $9, $10,
$7*100, $8*100,
OldFlags($11));
, please.
I suspect there is a lot broken about
diagonal pads
Nack. essentially DRC and gdlib output. I don't mention autorouter, because the
changes needed are evident there.
P.S.
Index: hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pcb/pcb/src/hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c,v
retrieving revision 1.45
diff -U2 -b -r1.45 gui-top-window.c
--- hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c17 Aug 2007 03:51:25 - 1.45
+++ hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c17 Sep 2007 06:06:52 -
@@ -3699,6 +3699,4 @@
filename = 0;
- free (home_pcbmenu);
-
bir = resource_parse (0, gpcb_menu_default);
if (!bir)
@@ -3711,4 +3709,6 @@
r = resource_parse (filename, 0);
+ free (home_pcbmenu);
+
if (!r)
r = bir;
and
Index: misc.c
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pcb/pcb/src/misc.c,v
retrieving revision 1.65
diff -U2 -b -r1.65 misc.c
--- misc.c 1 Aug 2007 02:49:53 - 1.65
+++ misc.c 17 Sep 2007 06:04:26 -
@@ -812,12 +812,5 @@
QuitApplication (void)
{
- /*
- * save data if necessary. It not needed, then don't trigger EmergencySave
- * via our atexit() registering of EmergencySave(). We presumeably wanted
to
- * exit here and thus it is not an emergency.
- */
- if (PCB-Changed Settings.SaveInTMP)
-EmergencySave ();
- else
+ /* the data are not to be emergencysaved */
DisableEmergencySave ();
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Re: gEDA-user: pcb-20070912
This isn't the problem I reported a while back is it? Fedora 7 comes with automake 1.10 and doesn't include aclocal-1.9. Configure apparently runs ok and you can miss the error message when you run make. I ran autogen.sh first, and then everything is happy. On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 17:30 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 09:52 -0500, Harold D. Skank wrote: Dan, I've awaited this release for some time now, as I've been having difficulty with some polygon issues on a large design. However, following download, I was some surprised that I could not get the file to compile. I should mention that I'm running Fedora-7 on an AMD-64, and I was attempting to compile in the 32-bit mode to avoid some operational issues that I have faced. I could run: CFLAGS='m32 ./configure --with-hid=gtk however a subsequent make command responded as though configure had not completed. In the end I had to go back to pcb-20070208. -- Peter Baxendale [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation
Robert Butts wrote:
I tell my son the only dumb question is the one never asked. So with
that...
I'm doing an LTSpice simulation and following Stuart's howto. In the
Running LTSpice with gEDA designs step 5 is:
Create a link from your netlist output.net and a netlist in the
directory in which SwCADIII lives. Make the netlist suffix .cir. For
example: ln -s ${DESIGN_HOME}/output.net
${WINE_HOME}/.wine/fake_windows/Program Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir
My questions are these:
1. Earlier in the howto I was directed to netlist my design and name it
design.cir. This is the netlist in my design directory and it ends in
.cir not .net. Should Stuart's howto read ${DESIGN_HOME}/output.cir and
not output.net http://output.net?
So far I've not come across a simulator which cared about the extension.
But I'm not an LTspice user.
BTW, why LTspice and not ng-spice or gnucap which are both open source?
With either of them, you can avoid tying yourself to a particular OS,
they both have mailing lists with not just users but program developers,
and you have more of an ability to influence the tools.
I've been down the path of closed source software with cheap or zero
cost to obtain before and at the end wished I hadn't. The particular
nameless tool ended up being a dead end road since I ultimately needed
to migrate to another OS and didn't want to shell out thousands for
something I was using as a hobby.
Just my 2 cents.
-Dan
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Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 09:10 -0400, Dennis Veatch wrote: Ok, at the risk of sounding like a moron. Where would be the download link for the project manager, version 1.2.0.20070902 ? The last version I was able to download was from (that was a while back); ftp://ftp.geda.seul.org/pub/geda/devel/20060123 I don't see it anywhere on the sources download page. Thanks. The project manager has been deprecated for some time now, and was removed from releases as it is no longer developed or maintained. I'm not totally familiar with the problems it had, however I'm assured it did have some issues. If you're looking for a GUI tool for the gschem - PCB workflow, the new (and not yet officially released) xgsch2pcb tool might be of interest. At the moment, only development versions exist in the git repository: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=xgsch2pcb.git;a=summary NB: You must also use a relatively recent version of PCB, and specifically compile it with DBus support. (This allows xgsch2pcb to push changes from the schematic into a live, open copy of your layout. It doesn't work without this support). Regards, Peter Clifton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Dennis Veatch wrote: On Monday 17 September 2007 09:53:48 am Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 09:10 -0400, Dennis Veatch wrote: Ok, at the risk of sounding like a moron. Where would be the download link for the project manager, version 1.2.0.20070902 ? The last version I was able to download was from (that was a while back); ftp://ftp.geda.seul.org/pub/geda/devel/20060123 I don't see it anywhere on the sources download page. Thanks. The project manager has been deprecated for some time now, and was removed from releases as it is no longer developed or maintained. I'm not totally familiar with the problems it had, however I'm assured it did have some issues. If you're looking for a GUI tool for the gschem - PCB workflow, the new (and not yet officially released) xgsch2pcb tool might be of interest. At the moment, only development versions exist in the git repository: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=xgsch2pcb.git;a=summary NB: You must also use a relatively recent version of PCB, and specifically compile it with DBus support. (This allows xgsch2pcb to push changes from the schematic into a live, open copy of your layout. It doesn't work without this support). Regards, Peter Clifton Ah thank you, that is some good information. Btw, if you plan to sue a deb based system on i386, I have some .debs recently packaged with CVS version of PCB compiled with DBUS and latest version of xgsch2pcb. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
On Monday 17 September 2007 09:53:48 am Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 09:10 -0400, Dennis Veatch wrote: Ok, at the risk of sounding like a moron. Where would be the download link for the project manager, version 1.2.0.20070902 ? The last version I was able to download was from (that was a while back); ftp://ftp.geda.seul.org/pub/geda/devel/20060123 I don't see it anywhere on the sources download page. Thanks. The project manager has been deprecated for some time now, and was removed from releases as it is no longer developed or maintained. I'm not totally familiar with the problems it had, however I'm assured it did have some issues. If you're looking for a GUI tool for the gschem - PCB workflow, the new (and not yet officially released) xgsch2pcb tool might be of interest. At the moment, only development versions exist in the git repository: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=xgsch2pcb.git;a=summary NB: You must also use a relatively recent version of PCB, and specifically compile it with DBus support. (This allows xgsch2pcb to push changes from the schematic into a live, open copy of your layout. It doesn't work without this support). Regards, Peter Clifton Ah thank you, that is some good information. -- You can tuna piano but you can't tune a fish. http://www.lunar-linux.org/ It's worth the spin. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation
Robert Butts wrote: When I'm creating the link how do you type the space in the directory Program Files? See below: /fake_windows/Program Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir Maybe /fake_windows/Program\ Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir JG -- Ecosensory Austin TX tinyOS devel on: ubuntu Linux; tinyOS v2.0.2; telosb ecosens1 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
Hi Peter and all, I just git cloned the repo and read the README file. It says to do: ./configure make install It looks like there is no file named configure in the repository. Is this because it is mentioned in the .gitignore file ? How to go further on xgsch2pcb ? Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 14:53 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 09:10 -0400, Dennis Veatch wrote: Ok, at the risk of sounding like a moron. Where would be the download link for the project manager, version 1.2.0.20070902 ? The last version I was able to download was from (that was a while back); ftp://ftp.geda.seul.org/pub/geda/devel/20060123 I don't see it anywhere on the sources download page. Thanks. The project manager has been deprecated for some time now, and was removed from releases as it is no longer developed or maintained. I'm not totally familiar with the problems it had, however I'm assured it did have some issues. If you're looking for a GUI tool for the gschem - PCB workflow, the new (and not yet officially released) xgsch2pcb tool might be of interest. At the moment, only development versions exist in the git repository: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=xgsch2pcb.git;a=summary NB: You must also use a relatively recent version of PCB, and specifically compile it with DBus support. (This allows xgsch2pcb to push changes from the schematic into a live, open copy of your layout. It doesn't work without this support). Regards, Peter Clifton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 19:15 +0200, Bert Timmerman wrote: Hi Peter and all, I just git cloned the repo and read the README file. It says to do: ./configure make install It looks like there is no file named configure in the repository. Is this because it is mentioned in the .gitignore file ? How to go further on xgsch2pcb ? The output from automake and autoconf are not stored in the .git repository. The usual way to regenerate that is to run ./autogen.sh in the toplevel dir (gschem, libgeda etc..) As we don't need anything special in that script for xgsch2pcb, we didn't include one, instead run: autoreconf in the source directory. (The autoreconf program is part of autoconf.) Regards, Peter Clifton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda project manager
On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 18:31 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 19:15 +0200, Bert Timmerman wrote: Hi Peter and all, I just git cloned the repo and read the README file. I've just pushed a small update to the README file which describes the necessary step to recreate the autoconf files. Regards, Peter C. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Footprint for test points?
I use the keystone test points as well, the loops make grabbing on with test leads a snap. a small surface mount pad that is a test point for minimal testing or other stuff is good as well, especially if you want to make a bead of nails testing jig. Steve On Sep 16, 2007, at 4:33 PM, John Luciani wrote: On 9/16/07, Randall Nortman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems a trivial thing, but what do you all use as a footprint for test points on the board? I'm just looking for something I can stick a meter probe onto easily, and maybe solder a wire onto if I need to modify the circuit in an unanticipated way. I am thinking that either a fairly fat pin (which will end up plated through) or just a circular SMT pad would be about right -- and how do I make a circular SMT pad? I guess a square pad would be fine except for aesthetics and expectations. If anybody has a ready-made footprint, I'd appreciate a pointer to it. (I searched on gedasymbols.org and didn't find any footprints -- though DJ did have an appropriate gschem symbol.) I usually use the footprint CON_TP__Vector_K24 which is for a Vector K24 pin. I also have footprints for the Keystone 5000, 5005 and 5010 test points. They are under the connector heading at http://www.luciani.org/geda/pcb/pcb-footprint-list.html (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda install on Ubuntu
Dobry den, tento mail vam poslal pocitac, pretoze ste sa pokusili poslat mi prilis velku prilohu. Zial, take velke prilohy sa do mojej schranky nezmestia. Poslite, prosim, mail znova bez prilohy a prilohu ulozte na verejnom ulozisku, napriklad http://www.yousendit.com/ alebo http://www.uschovna.cz alebo http://depo.bluetone.cz ak neviete po anglicky. Dakujem, Richard Balogh This is autoreply text. Sorry, I don't accept huge Attachments. Please, use public storage system at the http://www.yousendit.com/ instead. Sincerely, Richard Balogh ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda install on Ubuntu
On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 13:54 -0500, Ed Angie S. wrote: Peter, Thanks for the reply. My initial email was lacking that I am trying to install from the gEDA 20070221 CD. My new Ubuntu machine will be my second gEDA installation and I would like it to be the same version of gEDA as my original debian machine. I thought the installer installed the dependencies the first time through but I guess it didn't. I have subsequently installed the following packages using aptitude: It is always best to install the distributions version of these packages if possible. I'm not familiar with where the installer CD puts them, but it would have to be elsewhere than /usr/bin /usr/lib etc.. to avoid conflicts with ubuntu's package managed versions. guile1.6-dev libwxgtk2.8-dev tcl8.4 tcl8.4-dev tk8.4 tk8.4-dev libgtk2.0-dev libreadline5-dev flex bison gperf libjpeg62-dev I then re-ran the installer and geda/gaf seems to have installed ok. pcb, ngspice, gnucap, icarus, and gspiceui are not installed correctly yet. I would like to get them all working but pcb is my critical issue for an ongoing project. I have attached the install.log and pcb config.log files. The installer no longer asks if I want to install any software so I'm hoping I am far closer to working than I was previously. However, the Install.log file indicates that my machine is missing gtk-config. I've found some discussion on this issue but I'm still not sure what to do or if I need this with libgtk2.0-dev installed. gtk-config was from back in the gtk-1.x days. It might be that the installer is trying to install an old app which wants it - in which case, try: sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2-dev For pcb, the error indicates that my gd installation does not include support for jpeg. For other programs the message error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory seems to be a problem. I suspect I'm missing some required packages but I'm not sure what to install to fix these problems. ok - next step for PCB, get hold of a copy of libgd which has jpeg support. I have libgd2-xpm-dev installed: sudo apt-get install libgd2-xpm-dev with the cc1plus error, it looks like you might not have a C++ compiler installed. Try: sudo apt-get install g++ Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks. Let us know how it goes. Ubuntu takes a little bit of apt-get install bootstrapping to become a usable development platform, however its pretty good once you've got the required packages. Regards, Peter C. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda install on Ubuntu
Peter, Thanks for the quick response. 1. Is it ok to have both libgtk2.0-dev and libgtk1.2-dev installed? 2. You are correct, g++ is not installed but will be shortly. 3. I will install libgd2-xpm-dev Ed - Original Message - From: Peter Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: Re: gEDA-user: geda install on Ubuntu On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 13:54 -0500, Ed Angie S. wrote: Peter, Thanks for the reply. My initial email was lacking that I am trying to install from the gEDA 20070221 CD. My new Ubuntu machine will be my second gEDA installation and I would like it to be the same version of gEDA as my original debian machine. I thought the installer installed the dependencies the first time through but I guess it didn't. I have subsequently installed the following packages using aptitude: It is always best to install the distributions version of these packages if possible. I'm not familiar with where the installer CD puts them, but it would have to be elsewhere than /usr/bin /usr/lib etc.. to avoid conflicts with ubuntu's package managed versions. guile1.6-dev libwxgtk2.8-dev tcl8.4 tcl8.4-dev tk8.4 tk8.4-dev libgtk2.0-dev libreadline5-dev flex bison gperf libjpeg62-dev I then re-ran the installer and geda/gaf seems to have installed ok. pcb, ngspice, gnucap, icarus, and gspiceui are not installed correctly yet. I would like to get them all working but pcb is my critical issue for an ongoing project. I have attached the install.log and pcb config.log files. The installer no longer asks if I want to install any software so I'm hoping I am far closer to working than I was previously. However, the Install.log file indicates that my machine is missing gtk-config. I've found some discussion on this issue but I'm still not sure what to do or if I need this with libgtk2.0-dev installed. gtk-config was from back in the gtk-1.x days. It might be that the installer is trying to install an old app which wants it - in which case, try: sudo apt-get install libgtk1.2-dev For pcb, the error indicates that my gd installation does not include support for jpeg. For other programs the message error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory seems to be a problem. I suspect I'm missing some required packages but I'm not sure what to install to fix these problems. ok - next step for PCB, get hold of a copy of libgd which has jpeg support. I have libgd2-xpm-dev installed: sudo apt-get install libgd2-xpm-dev with the cc1plus error, it looks like you might not have a C++ compiler installed. Try: sudo apt-get install g++ Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks. Let us know how it goes. Ubuntu takes a little bit of apt-get install bootstrapping to become a usable development platform, however its pretty good once you've got the required packages. Regards, Peter C. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: geda install on Ubuntu
On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 14:38 -0500, Ed Angie S. wrote: Peter, Thanks for the quick response. 1. Is it ok to have both libgtk2.0-dev and libgtk1.2-dev installed? Should be fine. I don't have, but the libraries are versioned such that they won't clash. 2. You are correct, g++ is not installed but will be shortly. 3. I will install libgd2-xpm-dev I think libgd2-xpm-dev is what you want... I build PCB on my box without problems, so that is likely the libgd it is picking up. Peter ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation
Dan McMahill wrote: Robert Butts w BTW, why LTspice and not ng-spice or gnucap which are both open source? With either of them, you can avoid tying yourself to a particular OS, they both have mailing lists with not just users but program developers, and you have more of an ability to influence the tools. I've been down the path of closed source software with cheap or zero cost to obtain before and at the end wished I hadn't. The particular nameless tool ended up being a dead end road since I ultimately needed to migrate to another OS and didn't want to shell out thousands for something I was using as a hobby. Honestly, I haven't even tried either gnucap nor ng-spice but use ltswitchercad quite a bit. I'm up for the change, but how's the learning curve? Anyone care to comment or compare the two? gene ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation
gene wrote: Dan McMahill wrote: Robert Butts w BTW, why LTspice and not ng-spice or gnucap which are both open source? With either of them, you can avoid tying yourself to a particular OS, they both have mailing lists with not just users but program developers, and you have more of an ability to influence the tools. I've been down the path of closed source software with cheap or zero cost to obtain before and at the end wished I hadn't. The particular nameless tool ended up being a dead end road since I ultimately needed to migrate to another OS and didn't want to shell out thousands for something I was using as a hobby. Honestly, I haven't even tried either gnucap nor ng-spice but use ltswitchercad quite a bit. I'm up for the change, but how's the learning curve? Anyone care to comment or compare the two? gene I'd comment, but I probably can't give a good measure of the learning curve. From my perspective, if you've used any circuit simulators, ngspice and gnucap are both pretty easy. But then again I first used spice nearly 2 decades ago and use circuit simulators daily so most of my learning curve memory is pretty distant. gnucap has some neat capabilities like being able to directly get at some internal components of device models (junction current vs charging current in a diode for example). gnucap also is quite a bit better than ng-spice for mixed mode sims since it was designed for that. I can't recall though if gnucap has small signal noise analysis at the moment. I'm a fan of learning about netlists and doing the first couple of sims by typing in a netlist by hand. Why? Because even with expensive commercial CAD systems, problems come up where you have to dig into the netlist to debug. Besides, it's one less thing to worry about when you're getting started. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation
On Monday 17 September 2007, Dan McMahill wrote: I'd comment, but I probably can't give a good measure of the learning curve. From my perspective, if you've used any circuit simulators, ngspice and gnucap are both pretty easy. But then again I first used spice nearly 2 decades ago and use circuit simulators daily so most of my learning curve memory is pretty distant. gnucap has some neat capabilities like being able to directly get at some internal components of device models (junction current vs charging current in a diode for example). gnucap also is quite a bit better than ng-spice for mixed mode sims since it was designed for that. I can't recall though if gnucap has small signal noise analysis at the moment. No. no small signal noise analysis. Use NG-spice for that. There is also no small signal distortion analysis. Again, use NG-spice for that. On the other hand, I have never found the small signal distortion analysis to be very useful, because it doesn't show large signal distortion at all. What I have found more useful is a real Fourier analysis. For this, gnucap wins. The Fourier analysis and time stepping work together to significantly lower the noise, so it is actually useful for measuring distortion. Gnucap is a lot faster for large circuits. I have one that runs in 8 hours in NG-spice, 40 seconds in gnucap. Quadratic time vs. linear time. As to the learning curve, it depends on where you are coming from. gnucap interactive commands are different from spice. As a teacher, I found that I could get students started faster on gnucap than any other, even the graphic ones. If you are starting cold, the command line is really the easiest way! The biggest trip point is the sequencing of attaching probes and doing an analysis. Batch spice doesn't care about sequencing. As a result, it doesn't let you play. Gnucap cares completely about sequencing. You need to attach the probes before you turn the power on (run the analysis), like you would with a GUI, or a real circuit. Gnucap is more like a breadboard metaphor. Spice is more like a declarative programming language metaphor. I'm a fan of learning about netlists and doing the first couple of sims by typing in a netlist by hand. Why? Because even with expensive commercial CAD systems, problems come up where you have to dig into the netlist to debug. Besides, it's one less thing to worry about when you're getting started. That's another thing I ran into in teaching. Other profs would teach only with a GUI, so they might not see a netlist ever, or until they hit a course I was teaching. I start them with a netlist, then let them learn a GUI later if they want to. With Spice, you need to make a file containing the netlist. Gnucap lets you type it in interactively, then make many cycles of change and simulate again, interactively. With Spice, every change and simulate again is another edit of a file. Too often, students are taught simulation as an afterthought. You do everything else, including actually build one, then simulate to appease the professor. They don't learn that a big reason for simulation is that it is easier than the many rebuild cycles on a real circuit. They also don't learn that simulation can give you data you can't measure, and can directly give you the numbers you want, as opposed to measuring what you can measure and calculating from there. gnucap is better in this respect, because lots more probes are available. You can directly probe things like the charge in a capacitor, the incremental capacitance of a junction, the transconductance of a transistor. The biggest problem I ran into is that many students can only use a GUI. They can't even type ls to get a file listing. For them any command line is incredibly confusing. They need a few weeks of lessons in how to use a real computer first. Many profs respond to this by only using a GUI, which at best only delays the awakening, at worst they never learn. If you are just starting with gnucap, get the stable release (0.35). When you have a need for something it doesn't do, the development version might do it. There is a big difference between the latest stable version and the latest development version. If you want to help us make a Free simulator that competes against the big bucks simulators, get the development version and dive in. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
