gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:00:18 +0200, Bert Timmerman wrote: I think that gschem symbols in a git repository would be Really Cool (TM). I would even join in on the fun. See http://github.com/bert/gschem-symbols On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: If they could, it would interfere with the way I deal with gedasymbols at the moment. I set the component-library path to the local copy of the repository. Hello there, We all know that creating symbols and footprints are pretty the boring part of the electronic design. So can we all focus on putting all our symbols and footprints into the main geda-symbols tarball ? gEDA developers please detail us the process. Any user will benefit from this collaborative work instead of roaming around various git repositories in hope have luck to find the needed symbol or footprint. What do you think can we guide our symbols and footprint into the main geda-symbols tarball ? I believe if we do so many new users will be attracted by gEDA than other commercial product. At the same time, contribution and collaboration is the beauty of opensource software that we all proud of. I also believe this will help other openhardware communities (see on code.google.com) donate their symbols and footprints for the wider gEDA community. regards, Chitlesh Goorah ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Simphony V0.4 Released - Spice GUI
Hi all, I've been working on a spice gui/testbench/front end program for the past few months on and off and I'm finally really to release a VERY alpha version of it to get some feedback. This should of been released a few months ago but I have been really busy and have not had time to work on it. Now when I say alpha, I mean very alpha as there is no documentation to speak of and there isn't even a website for it yet, just a download link: http://spnet.code-fusion.net/release/simphony-0.4.tar.gz Altough the program is in a very alpha state it is fully functional, it lets you browse spice netlist hierarchically, does op/tran/ac/dc analysis, lots of probe types, etc. It also has a built in graphing function for graphing simulation results but it uses gnuplot for the graphing. Too many other things to mention I encourage you guys to download and explore the program yourself. If you need any help using the program feel free to ask. Here are some screenshots: http://spnet.code-fusion.net/release/simphony-ss1.jpg http://spnet.code-fusion.net/release/simphony-ss2.jpg As I said ealirer this is a VERY alpha release. There are still quite a few bugs/memory leaks/missing features. Enjoy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb via and ground planes
DJ Delorie wrote: I talked with Dan about it, we seem to think it's better to not use the ground plane for the return signal, and route the return the same way you route the audio. Think of it like a differential pair. That way, you get current balancing without breaking up your ground plane. Also, avoiding vias helps ;-) You know what? There's merit to this approach - thanks for the idea! After thinking about it a bunch, this may work out fine. It's definitely not what I originally envisioned. The only 'trick' here, when running those differential pairs, is to be certain the return current actually flows in them and not the planes. gene ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 12:03 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: Hello there, We all know that creating symbols and footprints are pretty the boring part of the electronic design. Yes. So can we all focus on putting all our symbols and footprints into the main geda-symbols tarball ? Please note: Quality is much more important for footprints and symbols than quantity. So there are some people on this list which use/trust only their own symbols/footprints. In my opinion quality at gedasymbols.org is not really good now -- some people still use it to backup all their stuff including logfiles. So we have to do an audit for each symbol. An other problem is, that it is not very good defined which attributes symbols should contain. And an important task is to find very fine names for footprint and symbols -- for me this is the most difficult problem. Names should identify and describe the content to make it possible to access it for others -- still an textual description may be needed. I agree that a fine collection of symbols and footprints would be great. But putting all in a big basked is not good. Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
On Sep 25, 2009, at 5:08 AM, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 12:03 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: Hello there, We all know that creating symbols and footprints are pretty the boring part of the electronic design. Yes. So can we all focus on putting all our symbols and footprints into the main geda-symbols tarball ? Please note: Quality is much more important for footprints and symbols than quantity. So there are some people on this list which use/trust only their own symbols/footprints. It isn't just that. *Any* symbol from a library is most likely wrong for a particular purpose. There are million of components on the market: we're never going to have correct symbols for more than a tiny fraction of them. Especially as correct depends on *your* design flow. Anybody who blindly uses a library symbol in any EDA tool without checking and tweaking as needed is asking for trouble. What we can have is easily customizable base symbols. And it would help if gschem better supported the import and customization of project symbols. In my opinion quality at gedasymbols.org is not really good now -- some people still use it to backup all their stuff including logfiles. So we have to do an audit for each symbol. An other problem is, that it is not very good defined which attributes symbols should contain. And an important task is to find very fine names for footprint and symbols -- for me this is the most difficult problem. Names should identify and describe the content to make it possible to access it for others -- still an textual description may be needed. I agree that a fine collection of symbols and footprints would be great. But putting all in a big basked is not good. Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: symbols/footprints
Stefan Salewski wrote: Please note: Quality is much more important for footprints and symbols than quantity. So there are some people on this list which use/trust only their own symbols/footprints. . . . And an important task is to find very fine names for footprint and symbols -- for me this is the most difficult problem. Names should identify and describe the content to make it possible to access it for others -- still an textual description may be needed. I agree that a fine collection of symbols and footprints would be great. But putting all in a big basked is not good. If the symbol repository ran on git, users could just check out tagged releases, and it could be very good for developing a set of symbols and footprints that are considered good enough for the tarball. Users who want no surprises can use a tagged release, which will only get bug fix changes. The repository could hold all the old, less well tested footprints and symbols, allowing the tarball released ones to be a smaller set, and well tested. The tarball release needs some different kinds of sections than now. Instead of types of parts, it could do more with types of assembly as a top level category set. For instance, the set (SMT, thru-hole, wire-ball, plug-board, arduino, fritzing). John Griessen -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
John Doty wrote: Anybody who blindly uses a library symbol in any EDA tool without checking and tweaking as needed is asking for trouble. What we can have is easily customizable base symbols. And it would help if gschem better supported the import and customization of project symbols. John reminds me that our current users are self-reliant-craftsman types, and newer ones will be more the speed-demon-for-rough-output type -- it's a generational trendiness thing. Another top category naming style, (in the tarball distributed symbols and footprints), that could satisfy the craving for speed is frameworks for workflows e.g. fritzing, KiCAD, gEDA-beginner-thru-hole, gEDA-beginner-SMT, gEDA-beginner-wireball, etc. Such sets of symbols might satisfy the request for start fast we hear so much. Footprints are tougher. Some basic parts available through Digikey would be good though. John Griessen (who adds new footprints and many custom symbols to his own libraries each time he does a board) -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
How about symbols-you-want and symbols-we-actually-have categories? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb via and ground planes
On Friday 25 September 2009, gene glick wrote: DJ Delorie wrote: I talked with Dan about it, we seem to think it's better to not use the ground plane for the return signal, and route the return the same way you route the audio. Think of it like a differential pair. That way, you get current balancing without breaking up your ground plane. Also, avoiding vias helps ;-) You know what? There's merit to this approach - thanks for the idea! Lots of merit, based on my experience as a broadcast engineer trying to get poorly designed stuff to perform as the chip books spec say it should. Doing this encourages the emphasis in the star ground topology. The nearby ground plane should help to reduce induced noises unless there is a heavy power stage also making that ground plane bounce around. A very good idea indeed. After thinking about it a bunch, this may work out fine. It's definitely not what I originally envisioned. The only 'trick' here, when running those differential pairs, is to be certain the return current actually flows in them and not the planes. One should not allow a connection between your 'ground' run and the ground plane except at one common point for all such runs. I have all the wiring for my emc driven, stepper motor moved milling machine setup that way including shielded motor leads, grounded at one end only, and I can even do electro discharge machining with it, using an 80 volt supply at about 4 amps with a 10 uf oil in a can paper capacitor, loud enough to make your ears ring if you get too close to it, but it never lost or gained a step in a rather lengthy session of drilling holes with it a few months back. Sweet holes too, absolutely burr less. -- Cheers, From another Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp Why use Windows, since there is a door? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
Guys: What's the current and planned state of support for blind and/or buried vias in the gEDA system? I got a few questions on that at the Embedded Systems Conference earlier this week... b.g. -- Bill Gatliff b...@billgatliff.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Bill Gatliff wrote: Guys: What's the current and planned state of support for blind and/or buried vias in the gEDA system? I got a few questions on that at the Embedded Systems Conference earlier this week... Well, of course that's a problem for the layout tool, so choose a layout tool that supports them. pcb is only one of the tools gEDA can export netlists to. Remember, pcb is a separate tool, not part of gEDA. Probably very few pcb users capture schematics with anything but gschem, but some (perhaps many) of us use gschem/gnetlist with other back ends. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
Status: Not yet, want it, blue-sky plans available for rent. It's part of the Upgrade of layer and design objects item in the Linux Fund work, number 4 of 5 tasks. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Push to geda's git directly: promote open hardware development by donating your symbols/footprints
On Sep 25, 2009, at 9:32 AM, John Griessen wrote: John Doty wrote: Anybody who blindly uses a library symbol in any EDA tool without checking and tweaking as needed is asking for trouble. What we can have is easily customizable base symbols. And it would help if gschem better supported the import and customization of project symbols. John reminds me that our current users are self-reliant-craftsman types, and newer ones will be more the speed-demon-for-rough-output type -- it's a generational trendiness thing. I don't think it's generational at all. Personal temperament is in play here, but the first rate designer chooses the mode that matches the problem to be solved. Sometimes I'm working on perfboard, and sometimes I'm designing ASIC. Another top category naming style, (in the tarball distributed symbols and footprints), that could satisfy the craving for speed is frameworks for workflows e.g. fritzing, KiCAD, gEDA-beginner-thru-hole, gEDA-beginner-SMT, gEDA-beginner-wireball, etc. Even a single set is beyond our capability. The second user of such a set will whine this isn't the way we do it in industry. The third user will complain it's still too complicated for beginners. The fourth user will complain that the pin numbers of the MMBT3904 don't match the data sheet. And on it will go... Such sets of symbols might satisfy the request for start fast we hear so much. Footprints are tougher. Some basic parts available through Digikey would be good though. John Griessen (who adds new footprints and many custom symbols to his own libraries each time he does a board) -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
John Doty wrote: On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Bill Gatliff wrote: Guys: What's the current and planned state of support for blind and/or buried vias in the gEDA system? I got a few questions on that at the Embedded Systems Conference earlier this week... Well, of course that's a problem for the layout tool, so choose a layout tool that supports them. pcb is only one of the tools gEDA can export netlists to. Remember, pcb is a separate tool, not part of gEDA. Probably very few pcb users capture schematics with anything but gschem, but some (perhaps many) of us use gschem/gnetlist with other back ends. Can you suggest a GPL/BSD/equivalent layout tool that can do blind/buried vias? b.g. -- Bill Gatliff b...@billgatliff.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
DJ Delorie wrote: Status: Not yet, want it, blue-sky plans available for rent. It's part of the Upgrade of layer and design objects item in the Linux Fund work, number 4 of 5 tasks. With the onslaught of cool chips in BGA packages that's happening lately, I'm hoping this task gets the attention it deserves. :) b.g. -- Bill Gatliff b...@billgatliff.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:27:02 -0600, John Doty wrote: but some (perhaps many) of us use gschem/gnetlist with other back ends. Not so many. See the result of last years poll. 3 out of 32 confessed to do the layout with PADS. The rest uses pcb. ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
John - On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:27:02AM -0600, John Doty wrote: Remember, pcb is a separate tool, not part of gEDA. But it does fall under the gaf umbrella, and this is the proper mailing lists for things pcb-related. Probably very few pcb users capture schematics with anything but gschem, Hey! Some of us (cough) are still xcircuit partisans! - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Bill Gatliff wrote: John Doty wrote: On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Bill Gatliff wrote: Guys: What's the current and planned state of support for blind and/or buried vias in the gEDA system? I got a few questions on that at the Embedded Systems Conference earlier this week... Well, of course that's a problem for the layout tool, so choose a layout tool that supports them. pcb is only one of the tools gEDA can export netlists to. Remember, pcb is a separate tool, not part of gEDA. Probably very few pcb users capture schematics with anything but gschem, but some (perhaps many) of us use gschem/gnetlist with other back ends. Can you suggest a GPL/BSD/equivalent layout tool that can do blind/buried vias? I have no knowledge in this area. My point was merely that this is not a gEDA limitation: gEDA doesn't even have a via concept. I think it very dangerous to misidentify pcb as part of gEDA, since gEDA's greatest strength is its ability to play nicely with many other tools and toolkits. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:27:02 -0600, John Doty wrote: but some (perhaps many) of us use gschem/gnetlist with other back ends. Not so many. See the result of last years poll. 3 out of 32 confessed to do the layout with PADS. The rest uses pcb. Hmm, you apparently didn't include *my* response. Did you miss anything else? 32 responses is hardly a large sample, and I'd expect it to be biased toward pcb: this list is predominantly about pcb despite its name... ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Blind and buried vias?
On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Larry Doolittle wrote: John - On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:27:02AM -0600, John Doty wrote: Remember, pcb is a separate tool, not part of gEDA. But it does fall under the gaf umbrella, and this is the proper mailing lists for things pcb-related. Probably very few pcb users capture schematics with anything but gschem, Hey! Some of us (cough) are still xcircuit partisans! Cool! Another flow! Aren't clean, flexible interfaces great? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Vendor Resource File format documentation?
Hi all, I am just working on my 3rd board (the first of any real complexity) with gEDA and am for the most part having no problems at all, thanks to all of you for that!This board will be sent to a board shop called APCircuits (http://www.apcircuits.com) in Canada. (the first board was made on a PCB routing machine here, and the second was very simple and I fixed the following question by hand editing the drill file). They have a standard list of drill sizes they support, and will charge extra for additional ones. Some of the standard footprints may be one drill size off (say just a couple of mils different) and I would like to avoid the extra cost if possible. They can do drill substitution if you ask, but I would rather see the artwork as is and not have them change it.It seems that the vendor resource file would allow me to do the drill mapping, but I can't find documentation on the file format. Does anyone have a current vendor resource file for this shop, or can someone point me to the documentation for this file, and I will attempt to make one. Note I have the board placed and ready to route, so it is possible according to the documentation that I have been able to find that the mapping only applies to _new_ pads, not existing ones. Thanks! --Neil. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Vendor Resource File format documentation?
The spec's in the PCB manual, under Getting Started. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
