Re: gEDA-user: Polygon and track spacing
DJ Delorie wrote: I'll keep that in mind as I work. Maybe I'll come across some good illustrations. Note that I meant "pop-up help within pcb" - we already use *.pcb files for many getting started guide and pcb manual illustrations. Imagine having PCB pop up a hint window which itself is a board layout, which demonstrates what you're trying to do - with text annotations etc. Thus, when you pop-up a help window, you can zoom, pan, do reports, *try* the hints, cut-n-paste, etc. Yes, I got that and think it's good. I'll keep it in mind. John The editing or viewing more than one at a time has other uses -- multiple views on a large board. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
On Sunday 25 April 2010, kai-martin knaak wrote: > al davis wrote: > > Ah .. there's a good idea .. "don't have to be exact" .. > > they never are Not detailed, but just good enough > > for a beginner. .. Now we need a volunteer to do it. > > > > Have things like a generic parameterizable op-amp. .. with > > parameters like gain, gbp, and so on. > > Parameterized models are already for the user who got beyond > the first successful projects. For the first steps, there > should be as little room to screw up as possible. Not really .. remember there are default parameters .. x1 (1 2 3) opamp * all default parameter x2 (3 4 5) opamp gain=10k gbp=1meg slew=10e6 * some parameters specified > 2) diodes: Any generic diode would do. If in doubt, the > parameters of 1N4007 should do. already there, sort of .model d d D1 (1 2) d * all default parameters but I think what you are leading to is the need for something to "include" that has several of them with parameters defined. > 6) Opamps: > a) An ideal opamp with essentially infinite > amplification, infinite slew rate, zero bias current, no > input offset, etc. b) A more realistic model of a common > opamp, with bipolar input, e.g. OP07 > c) A more realistic model of a common opamp with FET > input, e.g. TL081 > d) A more realistic model of a common fast opamp, e.g. > LM833 > > 7) Comparators. Like with the opamps, an idealized model > should be complemented with a common real world component. > E.g. LM393 > > 8) Signal source with the capabilities of a simple frequency > generator (sine, square, triangle, pulses, sweep) has one -- spice doesn't Even with the spice-style "PULSE" and others ,, Gnucap lets you specify named values. I can not remember the order of the parameters needed for spice. > This set of components would already allow for lots of non > trivial simulation. Looks like it would be a nice package ,, Just "include" it in the netlist. > Other integrated components like analog > switches, voltage constants, transformers, or mixers would > be nice to have. But they are not essential to get started. > > > The vast majority of gnucap users are not geda users. > > This might change, if geda provides a way from schematic to > simulation that is as straight forward as the way from gschem > to pcb. I keep hoping. Another need is post-layout simulation. The dedicated SI simulators (Hyperlynx and others) have import filters for all of the commecial layout programs. We can have that too. I have IBIS stored away waiting for a reason to revive it. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
al davis wrote: > Ah .. there's a good idea .. "don't have to be exact" .. they > never are Not detailed, but just good enough for a > beginner. .. Now we need a volunteer to do it. > > Have things like a generic parameterizable op-amp. .. with > parameters like gain, gbp, and so on. Parameterized models are already for the user who got beyond the first successful projects. For the first steps, there should be as little room to screw up as possible. While parametrized models are great and should be provided in the default install, there should be a set of ready-to-use generic models too. For the getting started stage, it is these ready-to-use models that matter. > Can you make a list of the ones that should be included? Ok, this is what I'd regard as essential to get started with simulation. I chose components that represent common, cheap components in the real world: 1) ideal passives with their nominal value as parameter: resistor inductor capacitor IIRC, these are already readily available in a default install of gnucap. 2) diodes: Any generic diode would do. If in doubt, the parameters of 1N4007 should do. 3) bipolar transistors: Any of the kind that is commonly referred to as universal silicon "TUN", or "TUP". Say, BC847 / BC857 4) Signal FETs: Again, any of the generic silicon models would do. E.g BSS123 / BSS80 5) Power FET: Some common NFET that comes in TO220 package, e.g. IRF720 6) Opamps: a) An ideal opamp with essentially infinite amplification, infinite slew rate, zero bias current, no input offset, etc. b) A more realistic model of a common opamp, with bipolar input, e.g. OP07 c) A more realistic model of a common opamp with FET input, e.g. TL081 d) A more realistic model of a common fast opamp, e.g. LM833 7) Comparators. Like with the opamps, an idealized model should be complemented with a common real world component. E.g. LM393 8) Signal source with the capabilities of a simple frequency generator (sine, square, triangle, pulses, sweep) This set of components would already allow for lots of non trivial simulation. Other integrated components like analog switches, voltage constants, transformers, or mixers would be nice to have. But they are not essential to get started. > The vast majority of gnucap users are not geda users. This might change, if geda provides a way from schematic to simulation that is as straight forward as the way from gschem to pcb. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
Steven Michalske wrote: >> Lack of models is a major road block to get started with simulation. ^^^ > I still don't comprehend why this lack of modes is a problem. I watch > co-workers that swear by lt-spice spend hours making models. Readily available models are critical to get started, get the feel for what is possible and wet the appetite for more. Models don't need to fit exactly the need of advanced projects. But they need to get basic circuits going. Having all kinds of opamps included in the default lib is certainly way out of reach. But three or five generic opamps would be orders of magnitude better than the advice to roll your own. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
Hello all: El 25/04/10 04:39, al davis escribió: On Saturday 24 April 2010, Armin Faltl wrote: I can't "make" the list, but can tell you what I use: - resistor - potentiometer - capacitor - inductor - diode (including Zener, Schottky,... ) - bipolar transistors - MOSFETs - op-amp - Schmitt-trigger - logic gates (NAND), sometimes abused as analog - (crystal) oszillator - differential/instrumentation/isolation amplifier - switches - timer (TLC555) Most of those are standard Spice elements, which are already there. Others .. can you be more specific on how you think they could be used? Power electronics models needed: - SCR Thyristor - UJT - Triac - Etc. Usually I try to use (adapts) macromodel from Pspice world, but not ever runs, for example, SCR thyristor macromodel. In other hand, I'm a bit lost in this discussion, is not usual look for in the web for a macromodel? (Recently I use this method for IRF540N, LM393 and LM311, and runs, not very well in Gnucap, but ngspice ok) Normally, comercial apps have these models included? (Too many years ago from Pspice use). Salud y Revolución. Lobo. -- Libertad es poder elegir en cualquier momento. Ahora yo elijo GNU/Linux, para no atar mis manos con las cadenas del soft propietario. - Desde El Ejido, en Almería, usuario registrado Linux #294013 http://www.counter.li.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH] Add line end to line type dialog
Armin, On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 02:59:22AM +0200, Armin Faltl wrote: > Is it correct, that round linestyle is default because of its superior > mechanical/thermal properties? - I definitely read this for pads and > it's easy to imagine, that a corner more easily delaminates than a round > edge. In the light of this, a "small bend" corner style would be cool ;-) The discussion was about line style in gschem, not pcb :) Best regards, -- Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" -- Leonardo da Vinci ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
John Doty wrote: > http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/john_doty/models/opamp/ > > Have fun! Feedback welcome. Thanks! Such simple models are what it takes as a starting point. I will try the models for a second stab toward simulation rather than with ltspice. Will report my milage on the list and/or add to the simulation page on the geda wiki. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
On Apr 24, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:36:59 -0600, John Doty wrote: > >> I might throw a few at gedasymbols.org just for fun. > > Please do so. http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/john_doty/models/opamp/ Have fun! Feedback welcome. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
