Re: gEDA-user: Drill file zero suppression
Ethan Swint wrote: On 04/26/2010 01:58 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: What generated those files? PCB uses *.cnc for drill files... > > It's original format is PADs, I believe. > be aware that there are various combinations of # of significant digits and leading/trailing zero suppression which can be generated by various programs that don't strictly conform to the specified subset in the excellon documentation. Also some programs, and I think pads may be one, has options that let you use a different origin for the drill file. I call it the "please increase the risk of a bad board" option ;) With gerbv, you can turn off autodetection of drill formats and manually specify what the format is as well as an offset. By playing with those settings you'll probably be able to clearly see when you have them set right. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drill file zero suppression
Ethan Swint wrote: A quick sanity check with users: I've got some Gerbers and a drill file to review. The drill file (*.drl), however, is not drawn to the same origin as the other layers. Also, there are leading zeros on some of the hole locations, e.g. T12C.145F035S9 X-01Y-01 X-01Y01 X01Y01 X01Y-01 which should be holes located at [+/-1.000",+/-1.000"]. I talked to one board house, but the conversation had so many double negatives I haven't used PADS since ?? can't remember -- all you need to do is a self consistency check and send that to the board fabber, and get someone on the phone who can give you a straight answer. If you are dealing by emails alone, it all needs to be written and demanded to be read. I'd generate something that will give you a consistency check in mils or tenths of millimeters and inches or centimeters on the same board, and run that by them. The origin being different has to be approved by them. Is it different because it is panelized? If it isn't all as clear and obvious as can be it will fail. If the origins are different, some writing to explain why needs to go with the order. John Griessen ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On 26/04/10 20:28, Link wrote: > (I'll have to reply on other people's scripts, because I don't know any > Scheme whatsoever.) (And by "reply" I mean "rely".) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On 26/04/10 20:08, John Doty wrote: > Please remember that "features" and "capabilities" are largely opposed in > software. I would rather ask for an API that allows me to add my own > features, rather than a feature that I'd like but would likely get in someone > else's way. Actually, I agree. Let it be noted, then, that if someone were to release gschem scripts for either of the ideas I mentioned, I would use them. ;) (I'll have to reply on other people's scripts, because I don't know any Scheme whatsoever.) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB configuration skin
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Bert Timmerman wrote: > FWIW, I have a very dim vieuw about this issue and would be very surprised > if even a very very big protest would help (very very big as in more than > 20,000 protests). > For anyone interested (as I was), here is a (the?) discussion about this (which Google didn't immediately turn up): https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602882 Jared ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On Apr 26, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Link wrote: > > Aww damnit, now I want a second monitor. Unfortunately, my desk is too > small to accommodate a second monitor of any decent size, and I'd need a > second video card because my current one's second output is used for the > TV, _and_ I have no money for more of such expensive toys. I use gschem on systems that range from a 9" netbook to a desktop system with two 19" monitors. I think it scales (up and down) better than most GUI applications. Sugar that's only useful at a particular scale is something especially to be avoided. > > Oh, and another feature I'd personally find handy: the ability to assign > hotkeys for inserting individual components - e.g. so you could assign > the keystroke "c g" to insert the "gnd-1.sym" symbol - or any other > unassigned keystroke for any component in the library. Now that's the kind of thing the scripting layer should allow you to implement yourself. But the dearth of documentation and examples for Guile scripting in gschem is a problem. I don't know if this is really possible. The situation is better in gnetlist, but hardly good. The result is that the power of gEDA's scripting capability is grossly under-appreciated, probably even by me (and I seem to be its biggest fan). Please remember that "features" and "capabilities" are largely opposed in software. I would rather ask for an API that allows me to add my own features, rather than a feature that I'd like but would likely get in someone else's way. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drill file zero suppression
It's original format is PADs, I believe. On 04/26/2010 01:58 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: What generated those files? PCB uses *.cnc for drill files... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drill file zero suppression
What generated those files? PCB uses *.cnc for drill files... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB configuration skin
Hi all, > -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of > Kai-Martin Knaak > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 1:27 PM > To: geda-u...@seul.org > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB configuration skin > > On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:55:49 +0200, Kovacs Levente wrote: > > > Please note that GTK is dropping the tear off menu system. > The lesstif > > HID still has this functionality. I use it with a dual head system, > > and it is a cool feature. > > Do they? > We launched a little protest against this move a while ago. > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > -- > Kai-Martin Knaak tel: > +49-511-762-2895 > Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: > +49-511-762-2211 > Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover > http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de > GPG key: > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get > > FWIW, I have a very dim vieuw about this issue and would be very surprised if even a very very big protest would help (very very big as in more than 20,000 protests). It's the choice of volunteers to keep supporting this feature or dropping it, the volunteers are in control of the repository (mother of all packaged sources and install binaries). And the volunteers know there is *no chance* you can keep up with a fork of GTK on your own. It's boils down to "Free and Open Source Software" versus " Controlled Repositories and Distribution Channels". More useful features were dropped in the history of GTK, and will be. Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Drill file zero suppression
A quick sanity check with users: I've got some Gerbers and a drill file to review. The drill file (*.drl), however, is not drawn to the same origin as the other layers. Also, there are leading zeros on some of the hole locations, e.g. T12C.145F035S9 X-01Y-01 X-01Y01 X01Y01 X01Y-01 which should be holes located at [+/-1.000",+/-1.000"]. I talked to one board house, but the conversation had so many double negatives (along the lines "We don't prefer to not have zeros suppressed.") that I'd like to check in here. Thanks, Ethan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On 26/04/10 17:29, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:25:09 + (UTC) > Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > >> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:25:59 +0200, Link wrote: >> >>> [Adding doackable dialogs like Inkscape are] Just something I thought >>> would be nice. So, err, yeah. >> >> Ack. But please don't do away with the separate window paradigm. >> For two screen use, docked dialogs would be a regression. > > Agreed here. Dual monitors are just too useful for this kind of work. Hell, > sometimes I find myself wanting a third monitor, and I don't even do anything > all that complex. I just wish sometimes that I could place the schematic on > one, PCB on another as now, and put things like a terminal to run gsch2pcb > and such, tool/library dialogs, etc. on the third. > > Trying to cram all that into one screen is just stifling. > Aww damnit, now I want a second monitor. Unfortunately, my desk is too small to accommodate a second monitor of any decent size, and I'd need a second video card because my current one's second output is used for the TV, _and_ I have no money for more of such expensive toys. But, continuing with Inkscape as an example, it does allow you to drag the panes away from the dock so they become separate windows. Problem solved! Oh, and another feature I'd personally find handy: the ability to assign hotkeys for inserting individual components - e.g. so you could assign the keystroke "c g" to insert the "gnd-1.sym" symbol - or any other unassigned keystroke for any component in the library. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
> Hell, sometimes I find myself wanting a third monitor, I have *four* monitors, and no matter how many monitors you have, you always want one more... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:25:09 + (UTC) Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:25:59 +0200, Link wrote: > > > [Adding doackable dialogs like Inkscape are] Just something I thought > > would be nice. So, err, yeah. > > Ack. But please don't do away with the separate window paradigm. > For two screen use, docked dialogs would be a regression. Agreed here. Dual monitors are just too useful for this kind of work. Hell, sometimes I find myself wanting a third monitor, and I don't even do anything all that complex. I just wish sometimes that I could place the schematic on one, PCB on another as now, and put things like a terminal to run gsch2pcb and such, tool/library dialogs, etc. on the third. Trying to cram all that into one screen is just stifling. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH] Add line end to line type dialog
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:17:15 +0100 Peter Clifton wrote: > On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 02:59 +0200, Armin Faltl wrote: > > Is it correct, that round linestyle is default because of its superior > > mechanical/thermal properties? - I definitely read this for pads and > > it's easy to imagine, that a corner more easily delaminates than a round > > edge. In the light of this, a "small bend" corner style would be cool ;-) > > Round-ended lines with the same end-coordinate make a neat join at any > angle. Almost all (all?) PCB programs I know of use rounded end line > primitives. > I'd like to add my vote here also - rounded ends look better at higher zoom levels, especially when you're creating a symbol. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: A little puzzled about the purpose of gschem
> -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Armin Faltl > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:52 PM > To: gEDA user mailing list > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: A little puzzled about the purpose of gschem > > I'm here only for a bit over a week, got a lot of help and > try to contribute something. > In my opinion, even if you were bashing gEDA or parts of it, > this would be still your right, while probably no good place. > What sounds like bashing in the ears of some contains > constructive criticisim in the ears of others maybe. > > I didn't say anything about the patent thing yet. Well, I > hold some patents, not in software. > Studies show, that 80% of all technical knowledge openly > available is described in patents only, no books no > publications etc. A personal guess of mine is, that a > similiar number of patents is expired already. Ignoring that > knowledge because of a weird sense of political correctnes... > There are even cases of patents that were acquired to make > them open source ;-) There is hardly a better protection > imaginable for an OS-implementation than an expired patent. Good point! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: passing parameters to a subckt
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:01:56 +0200, Rubén Gómez Antolí wrote: > Power electronics models needed: > > - SCR Thyristor > - UJT > - Triac True. I forgot those in my list, because I managed to avoid doing power supplies up to now ;-) > - Etc. -v, please. What else components would you find essential to power electronics? > In other hand, I'm a bit lost in this discussion, is not usual look for > in the web for a macromodel? The discussion is about a default set of models to get a new user started. It is specifically not about a complete library of all components you'll ever need. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB configuration skin
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:55:49 +0200, Kovacs Levente wrote: > Please note that GTK is dropping the tear off menu system. The lesstif > HID still has this functionality. I use it with a dual head system, and > it is a cool feature. Do they? We launched a little protest against this move a while ago. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:25:59 +0200, Link wrote: > The current design is good for people with tiling window managers, And for people with the luxury of two screens, like on my desktop :-) > However, with floating WMs, it means you have to resize the > windows individually and manually. It doesn't have to be done manually. The window manipulation tool devilspie can do it automatically for you. > Just something I thought would be nice. So, err, yeah. Ack. But please don't do away with the separate window paradigm. For two screen use, docked dialogs would be a regression. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [PATCH] Add line end to line type dialog
On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 02:59 +0200, Armin Faltl wrote: > Is it correct, that round linestyle is default because of its superior > mechanical/thermal properties? - I definitely read this for pads and > it's easy to imagine, that a corner more easily delaminates than a round > edge. In the light of this, a "small bend" corner style would be cool ;-) Round-ended lines with the same end-coordinate make a neat join at any angle. Almost all (all?) PCB programs I know of use rounded end line primitives. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Idea/suggestion for improving the gschem GUI
The "puzzled about the purpose of gschem" thread got me thinking about ways the workflow might be made more efficient, and one thing I thought of is the ability to dock the dialogue windows to the main window. In particular, I would find it helpful if I could dock the "add component" dialogue and the "edit attributes" dialogue to the main window (in a fashion similar to Inkscape, for those familiar with it). The current design is good for people with tiling window managers, since in that case you essentially have the docking feature in the window manager. However, with floating WMs, it means you have to resize the windows individually and manually. With a docking feature, the main window can be maximised, the dialogues can be visible alongside the screen, and shrinking one panel automatically expands the other. The way Inkscape does it even allows you to collapse the dock panes into tabs. Just something I thought would be nice. So, err, yeah. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB configuration skin
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:45:23 -0400 DJ Delorie wrote: > The lesstif GUI has a minimalist layout in order to maximize the > amount of screen real estate that goes to the layout window. It would be nice to have the GTK HID with this minimalist style too. Everything can be reached through menus what are displayed permanently on the left side. Once I started to work on a patch, which doesn't draw the stuff on the left, but gave up. :-( Please note that GTK is dropping the tear off menu system. The lesstif HID still has this functionality. I use it with a dual head system, and it is a cool feature. Cheers, Levente -- Kovacs Levente Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
