Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On 11/15/2010 09:24 PM, Stephen Ecob wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak kn...@iqo.uni-hannover.de wrote: Stephen Ecob wrote: Motivation Having laid out a couple of boards with PCB 20091103 I became aware of some bugs in the autorouter that made the job difficult: Are you talking about the default auto router. Or is this about the shiny, new toporouter? I'm talking about the default auto router. Oh, that's a pity. But are there any common parts of source code which both routers share? I mean - if you fix some bug in default auto router, will that fix the same bug in toporouter? I suppose that if Anthony Blake finishes his toporouter someday, all effort for improvement the default autorouter may be pointless. Toporouter's algorithm is really better, but there are failed asserts sometimes. Jan Martinek ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Does PCB have Specctra DSN/SES export/import? Just use that (or implement if it doesn't) and then use any of the autorouters that work. -tc On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Jan Martinek ho...@dp.fce.vutbr.cz wrote: On 11/15/2010 09:24 PM, Stephen Ecob wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak kn...@iqo.uni-hannover.de wrote: Stephen Ecob wrote: Motivation Having laid out a couple of boards with PCB 20091103 I became aware of some bugs in the autorouter that made the job difficult: Are you talking about the default auto router. Or is this about the shiny, new toporouter? I'm talking about the default auto router. Oh, that's a pity. But are there any common parts of source code which both routers share? I mean - if you fix some bug in default auto router, will that fix the same bug in toporouter? I suppose that if Anthony Blake finishes his toporouter someday, all effort for improvement the default autorouter may be pointless. Toporouter's algorithm is really better, but there are failed asserts sometimes. Jan Martinek ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL+3D Packages??
On 11/14/2010 09:37 PM, Peter Clifton wrote: 1. Does anyone care about seeing this land in PCB? Yes. 2. Will anyone bother to make 3D models for packages? Sure, in itch scratching way. ie what I need. ;-) 3. What format would people like to make models in? I haven't seen any mention of collada [1]. It's used by Google Earth, Sketchup, and Blender3D has a plugin for it. Not exactly a CAD format, but maybe worth considering... Yeah, I hate XML, but at least it's text based. I'm thinking VRML (perhaps as output by Wings32) might be a good choice, as I believe this is what KiCad uses. Nothing says there can't be support for multiple formats. thx, Jason. [1] http://www.collada.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 20:09:34 +0900 timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Does PCB have Specctra DSN/SES export/import? Just use that (or implement if it doesn't) and then use any of the autorouters that work. This so-called freeware program TopoR, sounds like a closed-source and non-free application that has no business being part of the gEDA development process, but then again I may be misinformed. If I wanted to use non-free software, I would use Eagle or some other low cost proprietary solution. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On 16/11/10 15:54, Peter TB Brett wrote: On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 11:09:34 timecop wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Even this single sentence contains so many factual inaccuracies and completely incorrect assumptions that I can't work out where best to start refuting it. Peter ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user I'll start. Freeware is NOT the same as free software. PCB aims to be a /complete/ /free software/ PCB design suite. Delegating an integral part of its functionality to non-free software is like saying here's a gun; if you shoot yourself in the foot while praying to the Dark Lord, the blood will drip in a pattern resembling the autorouted traces - and if it doesn't, you're not praying hard enough. Really, if you're going to leave that part to non-free software, you might as well install a telescreen in your house, wear blue coveralls, and start worshipping Big Brother, because you obviously don't care about freedom. That said, it might be acceptable to have the /ability/ to use an external, non-free autorouter if the user is willing to sacrifice his or her freedom for it. But that still doesn't mean why reinvent the wheel if it already exists is valid if exists means can be obtained if you're willing to sell your soul. And yes, I realise I actually spent effort refuting a troll, but to heck with it, because I needed to get it off my back. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Comments on pcb's g-code exporter HeeksCAD/HeeksCNC FOSS program for pcb milling
Markus, The outline layer is working fine now, when I draw a rectangle with lines - even a sloppy rectangle where the lines have kinks, or an unclosed rectangle. The exporter adds the tool offset as well. Very nice! However, the gcode export always crashes if I try to define the outline with a rectangle. I have not been able to replicate my earlier problem. I must have really made a big mistake. Thanks, Dave On 11/15/2010 09:44 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 15.11.2010 um 06:55 schrieb d...@umich.edu: I tried to draw an outline in an 'outline' layer and 'pcb' just turned the trace lines into an isolation routing outline. Ouch. This shouldn't happen. Did you apply all 24 patches? If yes, could you send me (not to the list) the .pcb file showing this behaviour ? I must not be getting your explanation. Do I use a rectangle in the 'outline' layer to define the outline? Exactly. A rectangle, or any number of lines drawing another area. Milled is always a rectangle, though. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Jan Martinek ho...@dp.fce.vutbr.cz wrote: On 11/15/2010 09:24 PM, Stephen Ecob wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak kn...@iqo.uni-hannover.de wrote: Stephen Ecob wrote: Motivation Having laid out a couple of boards with PCB 20091103 I became aware of some bugs in the autorouter that made the job difficult: Are you talking about the default auto router. Or is this about the shiny, new toporouter? I'm talking about the default auto router. Oh, that's a pity. But are there any common parts of source code which both routers share? I mean - if you fix some bug in default auto router, will that fix the same bug in toporouter? No, the toporouter is completely separate code. I suppose that if Anthony Blake finishes his toporouter someday, all effort for improvement the default autorouter may be pointless. Toporouter's algorithm is really better, but there are failed asserts sometimes. Yes, a finished toporouter will make the default autorouter obsolete - but unfortunately deveopment of the toporouter seems to have stalled. While the toporouter is unfinished the default auto router of 2008 is generally the best option for production boards. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:09 AM, timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Does PCB have Specctra DSN/SES export/import? Just use that (or implement if it doesn't) and then use any of the autorouters that work. hahaha. no. -Anthony ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:09 PM, timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Does PCB have Specctra DSN/SES export/import? Just use that (or implement if it doesn't) and then use any of the autorouters that work. -tc TopoR does look very nice - a good target for our toporouter to try to better. The free version of TopoR is limited to 125 signals - much too small for my current board. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Stephen Ecob silicon.on.inspirat...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:09 PM, timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Does PCB have Specctra DSN/SES export/import? Just use that (or implement if it doesn't) and then use any of the autorouters that work. -tc TopoR does look very nice - a good target for our toporouter to try to better. The free version of TopoR is limited to 125 signals - much too small for my current board. Keep in mind that most of the screenshots on their site required extensive post-processing after autorouting.. if you read the captions, the main board they show off took 20 minutes of autorouting and 40 minutes of fixing by hand. I've never actually heard of anyone in industry using it. -Anthony ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
