Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
Peter Clifton wrote: Not a bad thing IMO.. and the toporouter not only looks like it will be able to do excellent routing, its quality output will attract users to the software. That in turn helps attract development effort (or funding for it). Sure, a fully functional topo router would be a great step forward. It would make geda/pcb stand out from the competition. However, if the goal is to attract users, there is a more powerful means: An installer of native windows versions that works with no caveats. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
However, if the goal is to attract users, there is a more powerful means: An installer of native windows versions that works with no caveats. Also a PCB frontpage with some screenshots. Appearence matters! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
However, if the goal is to attract users, there is a more powerful means: An installer of native windows versions that works with no caveats. I am *always* willing to accept patches to improve gEDA compilation and performance on Windows. However, I would need (modest) sponsorship to do the work *myself*, not only because I do not have a modern copy of Windows, but also because it would take a significant amount of relatively unproductive time to get up-to-date on the idiosyncrasies of Windows development (I think I last compiled a Windows program in about 2004). Cheers, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
Stephen Ecob wrote: We're hearing complaints that some submitted patches aren't receiving enough attention, but there simply isn't enough maintainer time available There are 22 Current Active Developers listed in http://www.gpleda.org/people.html I see only few of them more than once a month on the mailing list. to give everyone as much attention as they'd like. More often than not, any dev response would be better than none. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
al davis wrote: If submitted patches don't receive enough attention, maybe there is something wrong with them. If so, then the contributor should receive feedback on what is wrong, rather than silence. In gnucap, I always give contributors top priority, but if a patch comes in without advance discussion, often there is something wrong with it. Well, my three trials to contribute were the opposite of out-of-the-blue. All of them started with me talking about the problem on the list. I announced, that I was working on a fix and even asked, what format the patch should be. Still, I had to do repeated nagging before I got feedback. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]
Bert Timmerman wrote: The gEDA #1 can still keep the golden repositories on a file server in a basement somewhere I am not convinced. We already have the semi fork by Peter C and real forks by others. How would additional repositories aid the inclusion of patches to the main tree? My impression is, it tends to do the opposite. Non official repos might aid cooperative hacking of none-devs. While this is nice, it does not seem to be the current bottle neck. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Dev list [was: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB]
Peter Clifton wrote: I don't want to get into the world of bad feeling Note, that the current exclusive status produces bad feelings, too. When topics on the dev list affect usability or the future of the project, it transports the impression, that mere mortal users are not supposed to have a say. that singling people out to be banned would cause. You don't need to single out specific people. Just attach a topic policy to the list and let a trusted moderator decide whether posts comply. Technically, every dev might become a moderator. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
On Friday 10 December 2010, kai-martin knaak wrote: al davis wrote: In gnucap, I always give contributors top priority, but if a patch comes in without advance discussion, often there is something wrong with it. Well, my three trials to contribute were the opposite of out-of-the-blue. All of them started with me talking about the problem on the list. I announced, that I was working on a fix and even asked, what format the patch should be. Still, I had to do repeated nagging before I got feedback. I don't remember that. What I remember is that you made a statement, I responded, and it stopped there. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FUNDING
On 12/09/2010 05:03 PM, Stephen Ecob wrote: Thanks Robert, it's good to know I'm not the only one ! Stephen I've contribute tip money to gEDA tools and will again, and am working on business that will support more than tip money. John Griessen -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FUNDING
On 12/09/2010 06:09 PM, Stephen Ecob wrote: how much funding would you need to get the toporouter working well That's always a tough question to answer... Unless it is for a limited feature, how do you define well?. A good question of Anthony is, How much time would it take to reorganize what you have now so that the router will run from initial conditions of existing traces of any legal kind, and what are the legal-for-topo-routing shapes that can be there? If the router could be used incrementally, it would get much use right away. The refinements could come as they may, and more users would be likely to contribute rent money to allow that. I can only afford tip money right now, nothing close to $4K. John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
On Thursday 09 December 2010 21:06:06 Peter Clifton wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 21:22 +0100, Bert Timmerman wrote: ... gEDA and friends can even keep the SF tracker system ... Actually, I have been looking quite seriously at the possibility of ditching SF trackers and moving all the history of bugs to Launchpad. I can do a fairly lossless export, and I'm working on fixing some issues with the Launchpad bug import code to be able to translate any bug numbers embedded in the bug comments. Nothing is decided yet.. beyond verifying that it is technically feasible, I want to know that all the current developers buy in (or at least consent) to a move. Launchpad being properly open source now removes one potentially strong argument against its adoption, but no doubt there will be people who dislike it for other reasons, or trust SourceForge more than Canonical. I'd welcome feedback from people who actively encounter and report bugs (especially in favour of the move ;)). I'd also welcome feedback from anyone who works with bug reports, test patches, merge code etc... (Doesn't have to be with gEDA / PCB, anything regarding Launchpad / SourceForge). Launchpad seems to have a number of advantages of SF.net, including the ability to easily mark duplicate bugs and link bugs to a particular branch. But it also does simple, easy things better -- for example, it actually sends the right content type for attachments to the browser. It even has sensible URLs for bugs. You can also assign groups of people to a bug, as an alternative to individual developers. My main objection to Launchpad in the past was that it was closed-source, but now that that has been changed... it's hard to find a reason not to use it for bug tracking instead of SF.net. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Does anybody have a footprint to this BNC connector?
I have a BNC footprint that I created for this part: [1]http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=ensite=US WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_buttonKeyWords=Tyco+1-1634624-0x=0y=0 I have attached a copy of the footprint. - Eric [2]http://lowvoltagelabs.com/ On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:39 AM, yamazakir2 [3]yamazak...@gmail.com wrote: [4]http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detailname= A97562-ND ___ geda-user mailing list [5]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [6]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References Visible links 1. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=ensite=USWT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_buttonKeyWords=Tyco+1-1634624-0x=0y=0 2. http://lowvoltagelabs.com/ 3. mailto:yamazak...@gmail.com 4. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detailname=A97562-ND 5. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 6. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user Hidden links: 7. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=ensite=USWT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_buttonKeyWords=Tyco+1-1634624-0x=0y=0 BNC.fp Description: application/pcb-footprint ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
Am 10.12.2010 um 21:03 schrieb Peter TB Brett: My main objection to Launchpad in the past was that it was closed- source, but now that that has been changed... it's hard to find a reason not to use it for bug tracking instead of SF.net. I've commited a bunch of bugs against Ubuntu, the prestige-project of Launchpad. Finding similar bugs, or any related bug was almost impossible. The project's source code feels so far away I never got in touch with it. So, no engouragement to actually fix something. Another reason would be perhaps it's use of Bazaar instead of Git. This not-so enthusiastic experience might be Ubuntu specific, of course. Using Github, the experience was a lot better. Regarding the messenging system it's not as full featured as the others, but sufficiently featured. Everything on Github centers around the source code repository, so you almost have to run away to not start fixing the issue. Forks are still a fork, but pull requests and similar features make it more feel like a branch. Many people use this fork-and-pull-request thingy, so it's simple to review something or ask for refinements without worrying about the main repo. You can put comments right into the provided patches and they're picked up in the issue's tracker log. Very productive. my $0.02 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Text in PCB elements
kai-martin knaak wrote: John Coppens wrote: Suggestions? Or maybe an estimate on how difficult it'd be for an average programmer to add? If the text in footprints should behave like any other text, I'd say pretty hard. You'd have to adapt many places where footprints get rendered. If the font is the 'monoline' type generally used in pcb, the redition can be taken from there and is sort of a 10-liner in OpenGL anyway. I addition, the footprint file format would have to be expanded accordingly. And the format change would have to be accepted by the devs. sure The GUI might look up letters as footprints in the library and arrange them to yield human readable text. This sounds like recursive call of footprints to me - what is the advantage to proper text rendering by the routines that do it for silk refdes? It has the same implications to footprint file format as any other rendering method. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Text in PCB elements
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:12:22 +0100 kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: A less ambitious way to achieve text in footprints would dissolve letters into lines and add them to the footprint like you would with ordinary lines. In silk they stay straight forward lines. In copper they'd become SMD pads with the same name. Pads might optionally be covered with solder mask. The GUI might look up letters as footprints in the library and arrange them to yield human readable text. Not a bad idea... It could be a temporary solution, I guess. I did notice that a PCB file includes the entire font if a text is written anywhere on the board. How is this handled with, eg. refdes in elements? Does this also trigger inclusion of the font? John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Text in PCB elements
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:35:23 -0300 John Coppens j...@jcoppens.com wrote: I'd like to put text into PCB elements (in this case to label pins of a connector on the silk screen), but that doesn't seem possible... Each time I try to add text to an element, it just disappears. I checked the specs. I know I could do it manually at board design time, but I use this connector regularly, and would rather have the text at the pins be printed automatically. I suspect this would be welcome to mark C, B, E in transistors, K/A in diodes, and other applications. I have recently found an easy and flexible way of getting text and arbitrary graphics into PCB by creating a drawing in Inkscape with my text, then exporting to PostScript, using the 'pstoedit' program to convert to a pcb-format file where the Inkscape-created drawing is rendered with pcb polygons and lines. It is a great way of getting any sort of artwork or text onto the board. Unfortunately this may not work well for footprints since I have found the best results from pstoedit to be achieved using the pcbfill output driver, which uses only polygons to render text, and PCB does not support polygons in footprints, even on the silk layer, apparently. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Does anybody have a footprint to this BNC connector?
yamazakir2 wrote: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detailname=A97562- ND http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/footprints/connector/BNC_LAY.fp silk on the other side of the footprint: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/footprints/connector/BNC_LAY_BOTTOM.fp ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 22:01 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: I've commited a bunch of bugs against Ubuntu, the prestige-project of Launchpad. Finding similar bugs, or any related bug was almost impossible. Possibly a weakness, but I don't see SF scoring any higher there. At least LP _has_ an option to search for similar bugs when you submit. The project's source code feels so far away I never got in touch with it. So, no engouragement to actually fix something. We're not (as far as I know) intending to move the source hosting. I assume you meant source hosting on LP, or did you mean the git.gpleda.org source-code feels so far...? Another reason would be perhaps it's use of Bazaar instead of Git. That is a pain, sure - but since we weren't intending to move the code hosting, it isn't a major problem. LP will happily track content in a git branch if you so desired. This not-so enthusiastic experience might be Ubuntu specific, of course. Ubuntu has the issue of there being a _LOT_ of individual packages. I often find half the battle is finding the package you want to report a bug against, and I suspect that would be much easier in our case. Might be wrong of course. Using Github, the experience was a lot better. Regarding the messenging system it's not as full featured as the others, but sufficiently featured. Github looks fun and friendly, but it is only free as in beer. This isn't a show stopper for me personally, but I think we can get some similar benefits without it. For example, I intend to write a post-commit hook for the git repository which can login to LP using its API and mark any bugs mentioned as fixed in the commit message as fix committed. Code review on github looks nice though. LP has similar, but only for bzr branches. See this for an example: https://code.launchpad.net/~pcjc2/notify-osd/fix_dropshadow/+merge/42804 -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Drawing with Cairo -- zooming, panning demo
I just put a small demo for drawing with Cairo into a GTK drawing area on my page: http://www.ssalewski.de/PetEd-Demo.html.en It supports zooming, scrolling and panning. It is written in Ruby, only 260 lines of code including some comments. Maybe it is useful for people working on footprints wizards or similar small tools. Panning/scrolling is not really fast, it is not optimized to keep it simple. (Maybe we should copy part of the content instead of complete redraw.) Maybe such a minimal demo already exists -- have not found it. Best wishes, Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]]
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 20:03:29 + From: Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Subject: Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]] On Thursday 09 December 2010 21:06:06 Peter Clifton wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 21:22 +0100, Bert Timmerman wrote: ... gEDA and friends can even keep the SF tracker system ... Actually, I have been looking quite seriously at the possibility of ditching SF trackers and moving all the history of bugs to Launchpad. I can do a fairly lossless export, and I'm working on fixing some issues with the Launchpad bug import code to be able to translate any bug numbers embedded in the bug comments. Nothing is decided yet.. beyond verifying that it is technically feasible, I want to know that all the current developers buy in (or at least consent) to a move. Launchpad being properly open source now removes one potentially strong argument against its adoption, but no doubt there will be people who dislike it for other reasons, or trust SourceForge more than Canonical. I'd welcome feedback from people who actively encounter and report bugs (especially in favour of the move ;)). I'd also welcome feedback from anyone who works with bug reports, test patches, merge code etc... (Doesn't have to be with gEDA / PCB, anything regarding Launchpad / SourceForge). Launchpad seems to have a number of advantages of SF.net, including the ability to easily mark duplicate bugs and link bugs to a particular branch. But it also does simple, easy things better -- for example, it actually sends the right content type for attachments to the browser. It even has sensible URLs for bugs. You can also assign groups of people to a bug, as an alternative to individual developers. My main objection to Launchpad in the past was that it was closed-source, but now that that has been changed... it's hard to find a reason not to use it for bug tracking instead of SF.net. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:01:02 +0100 From: Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de Subject: Re: gEDA-user: TRACKERS [was: Re: gEDA-dev: Dev list [was: Random thoughts onthe future interface of PCB]] To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Message-ID: 07255762-6808-4563-9a82-8d28a0d7d...@jump-ing.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed [...] I've commited a bunch of bugs against Ubuntu, the prestige-project of Launchpad. Finding similar bugs, or any related bug was almost impossible. The project's source code feels so far away I never got in touch with it. So, no engouragement to actually fix something. Another reason would be perhaps it's use of Bazaar instead of Git. This not-so enthusiastic experience might be Ubuntu specific, of course. Using Github, the experience was a lot better. Regarding the messenging system it's not as full featured as the others, but sufficiently featured. Everything on Github centers around the source code repository, so you almost have to run away to not start fixing the issue. Forks are still a fork, but pull requests and similar features make it more feel like a branch. Many people use this fork-and-pull-request thingy, so it's simple to review something or ask for refinements without worrying about the main repo. You can put comments right into the provided patches and they're picked up in the issue's tracker log. Very productive. my $0.02 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ Maybe we should check out the rest of the alternatives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Free_Software_Hosting_Facilities Also I realize you don't want to re-invent the wheel but I have a rack with a few servers at isc.org (the location of the F. Root nameserver). Mostly they run xen instances, but they are very much under utilized. If you want to roll your own setup, say out of debian packages it might be an option. Clif ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Text in PCB elements
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:07:58 -0800 Colin D Bennett co...@gibibit.com wrote: Unfortunately this may not work well for footprints since I have found the best results from pstoedit to be achieved using the pcbfill output driver, which uses only polygons to render text, and PCB does not support polygons in footprints, even on the silk layer, apparently. I was looking at the source code, and I have the impression that polygons are possible in footprints, though only rectangular ones. I'm somewhat confused about the workings of PCB in this aspect - I suspect this has something to do with the complexity of rotation etc. Probably someone is needed to code complex polygon rotations... John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Text in PCB elements
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:23:29 -0300 John Coppens j...@jcoppens.com wrote: Probably someone is needed to code complex polygon rotations... Sorry - that may not have come out as intended... This wasn't meant as criticism... John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
